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How exactly was John the Baptist somehow Elijah????

DennisTate

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I personally feel that this question has enormous potential to help Messianic Jews and Messianic Gentiles have a better relationship with the Orthodox and Chassidic Jewish communities.


Matthew 17 NASB - The Transfiguration - Six days later - Bible Gateway

I am no expert but I do suspect strongly that the dream that Jacob had may provide us with a major clue to how John the Baptist could be termed Elijah by Rabbi Jesus/Yehoshua:

Genesis 28:12
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
12 He had a dream, and behold, a ladder was set on the earth with its top reaching to heaven; and behold, the angels of God were ascending and descending on it.
 

ronshua

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Greetings DennisTate , read the verse again , it will answer your question . Here it is in the Young's Literal Translation .

10 And his disciples questioned him, saying, `Why then do the scribes say that Elijah it behoveth to come first?'
11 And Jesus answering said to them, `Elijah doth indeed come first, and shall restore all things,
12 and I say to you -- Elijah did already come, and they did not know him, but did with him whatever they would, so also the Son of Man is about to suffer by them.'
13 Then understood the disciples that concerning John the Baptist he spake to them

Just as our Anointed is FULL of The Spirit of YAHweh , John the Baptist was FULL of The Spirit of Elijah , by The Spirit .

John 14
8 Philip saith to him, `Sir, shew to us the Father, and it is enough for us;'
9 Jesus saith to him, `So long time am I with you, and thou hast not known me, Philip? he who hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how dost thou say, Shew to us the Father?


Peace .
 
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DennisTate

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Now that is an extremely interesting theory that frankly I have never heard before in my life!!!!!

I kind of like it!!!!!!

Ever since I was a teenager I was taught the theory that the final Elijah would probably be one of the two witnesses.......If that theory is true then this would make Elijah as well as the other witness some sort of metaphorical olive tree......which one would assume would mean that your understanding of this verse has at least some scriptural backing??????!!!!!!!

Revelation 11:3
And I will give [power] unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred [and] threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
 
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DennisTate

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Actually, in a way your idea is somewhat similar to what I was taught for years but your wording is significantly different.

What would you say regarding this verse in Zechariah regarding how even a feeble Jew will become similar to King David in the era of Moshiach/Messiah????

Zechariah 12:8
In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David [shall be] as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.
 
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bluemarkus

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he was elija thrugh his prophetic ministry, like elija was possessed by the HS so john the baptist was likewise. even tho they lived in different times and did different things and had different lives the same spirit worked through them likewise for the same longterm goal respectively.
 
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ronshua

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Greetings Brother , without reading a complete chapter , sometimes " saying " what is meant is difficult . In this case ,
10 And I have poured on the house of David, And on the inhabitant of Jerusalem, A spirit of grace and supplications, And they have looked unto Me whom they pierced, And they have mourned over it, Like a mourning over the only one, And they have been in bitterness for it, Like a bitterness over the first-born. Young's Literal Translation


What does Daniel 2 say to you ?


43 Because thou hast seen iron mixed with miry clay, they are mixing themselves with the seed of men: and they are not adhering one with another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.
44 ` days of these kings raise up doth the God of the heavens a kingdom that is not destroyed And in the-- to the age, and its kingdom to another people is not left: it beateth small and endeth all these kingdoms, and it standeth to the age.
45 Because that thou hast seen that out of the mountain cut hath been a stone without hands, and it hath beaten small the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king that which [is] to be after this; and the dream [is] true, and its interpretation stedfast.
46 Then hath king Nebuchadnezzar fallen on his face, and to Daniel he hath done obeisance, and present, and sweet things, he hath said to pour out to him.
47 The king hath answered Daniel and said, `Of a truth [it is] that your God is a God of gods, and a Lord of kings, and a revealer of secrets, since thou hast been able to reveal this secret.'


I would like to point out a few words , " and it standeth to the age ", " and its kingdom to another people is not left "

I receive the fullness , you must read the whole chapter .

Matthew 16:23
and he having turned, said to Peter, `Get thee behind me, adversary! thou art a stumbling-block to me, for thou dost not mind the things of God, but the things of men.'
Is Peter SATAN ?

John 20 ; 28 And Thomas answered and said to him, `My Lord and my God;' ( AND )
2 Tim.1:2 ; to Timotheus, beloved child: Grace, kindness, peace, from God the Father, and Christ Jesus our Lord!

Peace .

days of these kings raise up doth the God of the heavens a kingdom that is not destroyed And in the-- to the age

PS
3 and I will give to My two witnesses, and they shall prophesy days, a thousand, two hundred, sixty, arrayed with sackcloth;
4 these are the two olive [trees], and the two lamp-stands that before the God of the earth do stand;
5 and if any one may will to injure them, fire doth proceed out of their mouth, and doth devour their enemies, and if any one may will to injure them, thus it behoveth him to be killed.
6 These have authority to shut the heaven, that it may not rain rain in the days of their prophecy, and authority they have over the waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the land with every plague, as often as they may will.
Here are the KEYS !
" before the God of the earth " Whom is the god of the earth ?
" authority to shut the heaven " How does our Anointed save the repentant ?
" waters to turn them to blood " Hum a few bars , WASTED IN THE BLOOD .
" two olive [trees], and the two lamp-stands " TWO witnesses to two witnesses . YAHweh's way
3 Jesus answered and said to him, `Verily, verily, I say to thee, If any one may not be born from above, he is not able to see the reign of God;'
25 the baptism of John, whence was it? -- from heaven, or from men?' And they were reasoning with themselves, saying, `If we should say, From heaven; he will say to us, Wherefore, then, did ye not believe him?
 
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DennisTate

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This sure reminds me of what Pastor Rick Joyner predicted after his visionary dream back in '95!


https://www.facebook.com/notes/west...umanity-by-pastor-rick-joyner/364239236933349


A message from Adam to all humanity by Pastor Rick Joyner.


 
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DennisTate

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Greetings DennisTate , I haven't a clue who your Pastor Rick Joyner is . I'll wager and don't ,
he's a book writing jessy . Buying & selling Darbyism wholesale .
That post was in July . Do you know what I posted ?
Peace .

Hi RonShua! I am glad that you reminded me of your reply here.....I will definitely have to read this over again a few times.....but as for the calibre of what Pastor Rick Joyner claims to have been shown.....it is certainly some of the most powerful and logical writing that I have read in my 53 years!!!!


http://www.christianforums.com/t7695357/

Could God be the most emotional being in the universe????
This would seem to correspond with the Creator actually having thought up and choreographed an infinite number of Big Events over infinite time in the past as some physicists seem to believe has been the case!

Investing infinite time in the creation....would certainly tend to give the Creator a greater emotional attachment to all of us than we can begin to imagine...considering how young we are.


 
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DennisTate

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A man is known by his personality, if then he adopts the personality of another, he is known by what he has adopted.



I just read an intriguing prophecy from Pastor David Wilkerson regarding how the spirit of Elijah will manifest in these latter days:



 
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Torah Lishmah

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How exactly was John the Baptist somehow Elijah????
There is always the obvious answer. He wasn't.

I find the notion that John the Baptist was somehow "possessed" by Elijah's spirit one of the most bizarre teachings in all of the Christian scriptures.
 
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DennisTate

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There is always the obvious answer. He wasn't.

I find the notion that John the Baptist was somehow "possessed" by Elijah's spirit one of the most bizarre teachings in all of the Christian scriptures.

Torah Lishmah....can you or any of your children or grandchildren take a CD or DVD or stick.....insert it in a computer.....download a program or movie......and then remove that CD, or DVD or stick????????

Replicating the subconscious memories of a historical person to form a part of their "soul/human spirit" that is given to some sort of modern version of them at birth in a later time period....may be much more simple for HaShem/The G-d of Abraham.....than for your kids or mine to play around with techie stuff!!!!????
 
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Gottservant

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That's a good analogy actually, of the memory stick.

If a computer has a memory stick in it, it is quite possible to say "the computer is the memory stick" since they are connected (but you do not think for a minute that "being" the memory stick replaces the computer).
 
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Torah Lishmah

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I think you misunderstood me, Dennis. At no time have I ever said that the Creator is unable to do anything. My suggestion was not that He couldn't do it, but that He didn't do it. Big difference.

So, to reiterate, I find the notion that John the baptist was possesed by the spirit of Elijah [and therefore a fulfillment of prophecy] to be quite absurd. That is merely my personal opinion on the matter, and nothing more.
 
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Torah Lishmah

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I personally feel that this question has enormous potential to help Messianic Jews and Messianic Gentiles have a better relationship with the Orthodox and Chassidic Jewish communities.
Could you please explain what you mean by this statement? So far, I don't see it.
 
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xDenax

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I find the notion that John the Baptist was somehow "possessed" by Elijah's spirit one of the most bizarre teachings in all of the Christian scriptures.

I didn't know it was a Christian teaching.
 
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DennisTate

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I admit that I may have taken this scripture in the wrong direction....but basically I am wondering if the human spirit/soul in some way is one level of angel????!!!


Genesis 28:12 "And he dreamed, and behold a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven: and behold the angels of God ascending and descending on it."

Is volunteering to become a human similar to the proverbial "camel going through the eye of the needle" which apparently meant that the camel got down on its knees and shimmied through a fairly low gate into a city!!!??

This ties in with the question of the pre-existence of the human spirit or soul??


Romans 9:13 "(For [the children] being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that callethIt was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger."As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated."


In other words is God using the human experience to bring fallen angels to repentance and the restoration of their relationship with God at the same time that angels who perhaps did not fall develop even greater levels of humility and ability to teach.

Once our identity is created though....I believe that we are permanent and will continue to learn and learn and learn and become even more deeply in love with our Creator for eternity.

Does the human experience take angels up to a new level of sonship with God that they did not have before becoming human?????

If the Word/Logos can incarnate into a human body....why not an angel???
 
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DennisTate

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There is always the obvious answer. He wasn't.

I find the notion that John the Baptist was somehow "possessed" by Elijah's spirit one of the most bizarre teachings in all of the Christian scriptures.

Actually, I agree with you. John the Baptist was NOT Elijah...but it is possible that his human spirit/soul contained the subconscious memories of the historical Elijah which played a significant role in the type of personality and level of dedication that John the Baptist had??!!
 
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