How d'you cope with being unmarried and sexually aroused?

[JadeTigress]

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but can you really prove masturbation always ruins relationships? TBH, while I don't entirely agree, I can see the anonymous husband whacking off to internet porn argument. But I don't think a person masturbating can nessecarily always ruin that relationship.

I believe it was Sue Johannsen [who everyone else may think is a quack] when talking about female [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] saying that many women reach their first [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] through masturbating. That to have good sex, you do need to figure out what you actually want from it, and that masturbation can give that to the person. Which isn't to say a marriage is all about sex, but it is part of a marriage.

But to conclude, I will disagree on that point. Just because I don't think it's an all-or-nothing activity. If you're married to someone who chooses masturbating over a living, breathing, spouse, it's probably something you should be talking about. But if it's just an activity when say, you're just not getting any, I fail to see what the issue is.

QFT

 

[AetheriusLamia]

Masturbation is detrimental to a relationship, especially that of husband and wife ... They are one flesh, and are meant to be sexually completed by each other. See 1 Corinthians 7:

The husband should fulfill his duty toward his wife, and likewise the wife toward her husband.
4
A wife does not have authority over her own body, but rather her husband, and similarly a husband does not have authority over his own body, but rather his wife.
5
Do not deprive each other, except perhaps by mutual consent for a time, to be free for prayer, but then return to one another, so that Satan may not tempt you through your lack of self-control.
6
This I say by way of concession, (4) however, not as a command.
Footnote:
(4) [6] By way of concession: this refers most likely to the concession mentioned in 1 Cor 7:5a: temporary interruption of relations for a legitimate purpose.

To get a better understanding of this passage, I think one must really read the entire letter (that is, the entire book of Corinthians) and the footnotes (there are more footnotes than I copied.) The point is, though, that they are one flesh, and are meant for a sexual union with each other, not without each other.

There is also the simple fact that the Church condemns masturbation as inherently sinful. If it is sinful, then it does hurt relationships, because everything sinful hurts relationships by their very nature.

I had thought that my wanting a Christian discussion was obvious. Do people go to a gathering of scientists to discuss magic, telepathy, telekinesis, reincarnation...? Of course they might, but unless the situation is specifically asked for, it's highly unusual. It's odd to assume that a gathering of scientists would want to discuss reincarnation. Likewise, why would you assume that I would want to discuss ideas here that contradict Christian principles and lack any justification within Christianity?

I wish this post was better written; I feel it's long-winded and confusing, but I can't seem to articulate any better at the moment. Peace.

 

[JCSeeker]

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but can you really prove masturbation always ruins relationships? TBH, while I don't entirely agree, I can see the anonymous husband whacking off to internet porn argument. But I don't think a person masturbating can nessecarily always ruin that relationship.

All I meant was that masturbation can cause enormous damage to relationships. I did not mean to say 'permanent damage' since Jesus can heal all wounds. But consider what happens when someone masturbates. He or she indulges in a fantasy which often depicts the partner in a wrong way. Do it enough, and that perception leaks into real life. It's not the action of self relief; I think the biggest problem is that people who touch can unknowingly distort their view of the opposite sex. This of course will most definitely cause harm in relationships with the opposite sex.

I hope that made some sense.

I believe it was Sue Johannsen [who everyone else may think is a quack] when talking about female [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] saying that many women reach their first [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] through masturbating. That to have good sex, you do need to figure out what you actually want from it, and that masturbation can give that to the person. Which isn't to say a marriage is all about sex, but it is part of a marriage.

But to conclude, I will disagree on that point. Just because I don't think it's an all-or-nothing activity. If you're married to someone who chooses masturbating over a living, breathing, spouse, it's probably something you should be talking about. But if it's just an activity when say, you're just not getting any, I fail to see what the issue is.

Sex is a part of marriage, no doubt! And when a couple seeks mutual satisfaction, you can bet that they will have 'good sex.' It is not dependent on previous knowledge of sex. Sex is inevitably linked to spirituality; when two Christian partners have sex they will find ways to pleasure each other.

I don't understand the part about not getting any. A married Christian couple will thirst for a sexual relationship; it's how God made us. Even if work or kids get in the way, seeking His kingdom ensures that all needs - including sexual needs - will be taken care of.

 

[Trashionista]

All I meant was that masturbation can cause enormous damage to relationships. I did not mean to say 'permanent damage' since Jesus can heal all wounds. But consider what happens when someone masturbates. He or she indulges in a fantasy which often depicts the partner in a wrong way. Do it enough, and that perception leaks into real life. It's not the action of self relief; I think the biggest problem is that people who touch can unknowingly distort their view of the opposite sex. This of course will most definitely cause harm in relationships with the opposite sex.

I hope that made some sense.

I still disagree, but thanks for explaining.

Sex is a part of marriage, no doubt! And when a couple seeks mutual satisfaction, you can bet that they will have 'good sex.' It is not dependent on previous knowledge of sex. Sex is inevitably linked to spirituality; when two Christian partners have sex they will find ways to pleasure each other.

I will agree that sex can be a spiritual activity, but that it doesn't have to involve Christianity or Christian tenets to be quite pleasurable.

I don't understand the part about not getting any. A married Christian couple will thirst for a sexual relationship; it's how God made us. Even if work or kids get in the way, seeking His kingdom ensures that all needs - including sexual needs - will be taken care of.

Sometimes, your wife or husband is just not there. If the mood strikes, and your spouse is on a business trip for the week, I don't see how indulgence with a vibrator or something is nessecarily that bad.

Obviously, the wife would probably prefer to have her husband there. But if masturbation is seen as the less pleasurable activity to sexual intercourse when he is home, I don't quite see what the big deal is.

I'd agree that if a spouse or lover is continually choosing masturbation over having sex with a living, breathing, human spouse with wants, needs, desires and a sex drive of their own - it will present a problem. But if it's something to ease the tension when your spouse is gardening, or at work, or away on business, or touring with a theatre or group, or whatever, why it would be an issue.

Personally, I wouldn't take the I'm-away-therefore-spouse-masturbates as a real affront. Maybe the porn addiction one, or the masturbation>spouse, situation, but the first? It's not something I get all uppity and annoyed about, personally.

 

[AetheriusLamia]

Quirk, see first post. Also:

Offenses against chastity

2351 Lust is disordered desire for or inordinate enjoyment of sexual pleasure. Sexual pleasure is morally disordered when sought for itself, isolated from its procreative and unitive purposes.

2352 By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. "Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action."137 "The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose." For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of "the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved."138

To form an equitable judgment about the subjects' moral responsibility and to guide pastoral action, one must take into account the affective immaturity, force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety or other psychological or social factors that lessen, if not even reduce to a minimum, moral culpability.

2354 Pornography consists in removing real or simulated sexual acts from the intimacy of the partners, in order to display them deliberately to third parties. It offends against chastity because it perverts the conjugal act, the intimate giving of spouses to each other. It does grave injury to the dignity of its participants (actors, vendors, the public), since each one becomes an object of base pleasure and illicit profit for others. It immerses all who are involved in the illusion of a fantasy world. It is a grave offense. Civil authorities should prevent the production and distribution of pornographic materials.

2396 Among the sins gravely contrary to chastity are masturbation, fornication, pornography, and homosexual practices.

-- http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a6.htm

They claim that the Holy Spirit guides their moral teachings. Either you lack the faith and fortitude to believe this claim, the claim is false, or you disagree with God.

 

[AetheriusLamia]

This thread is nothing more than people posting their opinions about what they think sexual actions are or should be. I'm trying to investigate beyond opinion into truth, but no one seems to care (or to acknowledge that truth beyond opinion may exist.)

I didn't quote the Church only to say "Isn't this a nice idea?"

 

[JCSeeker]

No, that makes no sense. There is no law that says when one masturbates, they're ALWAYS thinking of another person, and they're picturing that partner in an unwholesome way. You can choose to fantasize about other people, or you can just enjoy the feelings as they come up... The two aren't totally and completely connected.

Frankly, it sounds to me that your argument against masturbation has nothing to do with masturbation at all... It has to do with fantasizing. Fantasizing and masturbating are two totally different things.

Yes, you're right. I assumed that masturbation and fantasy was inseparable. Thank you for giving me a different perspective.

There's way more to sex than that. Two people who're totally in love, who're out to only give mutual pleasure does not promise a fulfilled and perfect sexual experience. It doesn't even promise they'll have "good sex." To imply that's all it takes tells everybody who has sexual issues that the problem is that they don't love each other enough, and that if they did, then they'd have a great sex life. Obviously, that's false. There are numerous, numerous, NUMEROUS reasons why one's sex life is less than fulfilling, reasons that have nothing to do with not loving your partner enough.

I feel that masturbation, combined with fantasy, can cause one's sex life to be less fulfilling than usual.

Have you even had sex, or are you speaking hypothetically, based on what you believe sex to be?

I am trying my best to relay the experiences of my married youth leaders who have had sex. I myself have not.

Hmmm... Then I guess that means that there is no Christian married couple out there who's sexually unfulfilled, and that all have compatible sex drives and fulled sexual needs... And the implication being that those who do not are either A. not Christian, B. not listening to God, or C. not really in love.

I think I don't even need to explain how false that is, and I tend to think your impressions come from ideas related to how you think things should be, as opposed to how things are. I can tell you, I have a very high sex drive, and my husband does too... Work, stress, illness, exhaustion, outside influences all play a part in shaping sex life. It is entirely possible that one is Christian, loves their spouse, and has a crap sex life, or as in our case, a sex life that can become distracted by other events in our lives...

Christianity is a religion, not a sexual stimulant, aphrodisiac, or a promise to happy, great, fulfilling, head-board rattling sex. If you think that the answer is that as a Christian, you don't have to worry about this stuff, you're in for a very rude shock.

Tropical Wilds, I'm sorry if my posts offended you. I'm not an eloquent speaker; on an online forum I struggle even more because I can't even convey tone or voice. I believe my intentions can be misinterpreted quite easily, and that's not anyone's fault.

In regard to the implication you believe I've made, in no way did I assume that all Christian couples had great sex lives. What I did assume was, that two people who constantly seek His kingdom first would receive sexual fulfillment.

But this scenario is impossible in a fallen world; as you stated, this is not how things are, most of the time. Just like in all other aspects of our lives, Christians and all people run into hardships in their sex lives. Because we've lived all our lives entrenched in the imperfections of this world, our sex life can only reflect the world; it's imperfect. However, I believe that as we become more like Jesus, our sex lives will improve.

Thank you for your response to my post, it has given me a lot of thoughts. And I'm only 18, take it easy on me please =d

 

[Sadiegrl]

in regards to the OP...when you find the answer/truth to this question...let me know! I could use some help there too!

 

[4christ88]

hey all!!

Such heated discussion...Wow....i have a pounding headache that gets worse as i sroll through...the main word i see is masturbation.

lets go back to the word, new testament,,,remember that romans 12 when God said he gave the human race up to their sinful desires and allowed man and man to exchanged unatural sexual relations for each other and woman to woman

it is not natural therefore it is sinful...if God ALLOWS something doesnt mean he PERMITS It....just because u have sex all over, do drugs in your parents home and they dont lock u up for good doesnt mean they allow it or approve or it. but when they've tolerated it enough, give u grace and trust and u abuse it...there will be very grave consequences

how much more would God condone masturbation because to touch u are arousing sexual desires and feelings that should be done by that ONE person, in sacred COVENANT/matrimony for ETERNITY

u can argue about something but arguing and justifying NEVER makes something right! God bless u guys...please ask him for direction... don't rely on my answer, no point in attacking me or anything...no point whatsoever what God said is said...read ur bible, pray, talk to ur pastors and youth leader... i am not saying that u cannot ask me things or refute...i am open to discussion

HEAR IT FROM GOD HIMSELF!!! to u all, all the best!

 

[JadeTigress]

My gods have no problem with sex, in any of it's forms. In fact, they see not having sex as unnatural. They were rather pleased when I finally lost my virginity.

 

[4christ88]

hmm good for u Jade

but how would u explain the rules for sex??

how would u prevent sexual transmitted disease?AIDS?

how would u tell a person when to stop having sex? how often? with whom? how many people at once?

we are not animals! even animals do it with one animal at once, not many... at least not any highly intelligent animal that i know of sorry if i sound rude but i don't mean to be... . we humans in all our intelligence and pride have tried to defile certain laws of nature and justify our actions, i am deeply sorry to say

i was having a looong conversation with a dear friend about his growing up leading to not believing in "god" so yea too sad in my heart to sleep....

 

[JadeTigress]

hmm good for u Jade

but how would u explain the rules for sex??

how would u prevent sexual transmitted disease?AIDS?

how would u tell a person when to stop having sex? how often? with whom? how many people at once?

we are not animals! even animals do it with one animal at once, not many... at least not any highly intelligent animal that i know of sorry if i sound rude but i don't mean to be... . we humans in all our intelligence and pride have tried to defile certain laws of nature and justify our actions, i am deeply sorry to say

i was having a looong conversation with a dear friend about his growing up leading to not believing in "god" so yea too sad in my heart to sleep....

What rules? The only rule for any sexual activity is that all involved give their consent.

Each person has to decide for themselves what they are or are not willing to do in a sexual context. If monogamy works for you (that's where I am), then great. If you want to be promiscuous, that's your choice. If you want to have a 15 person orgy, more power to you.

As far as keeping STDs in check, you do it the same as everyone else. Make sure you get tested, always wear a condom, and find out the health of anyone you plan on sleeping with before you sleep with them.

And a person should probably cut back on the sex if it starts to impact their life negatively and get in the way of them actually living (in other words, an addiction). But that goes for anything, not just sex.

 

[sbvera13]

we are not animals! even animals do it with one animal at once, not many... at least not any highly intelligent animal that i know of sorry if i sound rude but i don't mean to be... . we humans in all our intelligence and pride have tried to defile certain laws of nature and justify our actions, i am deeply sorry to say

It appears some research is in order. Scroll down to the paragraphs about dolphins. They're generally regarded as one of the most intelligent non-human animals on the planet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_animals#Some_selected_species_and_groups

 

[4christ88]

What rules? The only rule for any sexual activity is that all involved give their consent.

Each person has to decide for themselves what they are or are not willing to do in a sexual context. If monogamy works for you (that's where I am), then great. If you want to be promiscuous, that's your choice. If you want to have a 15 person orgy, more power to you.

As far as keeping STDs in check, you do it the same as everyone else. Make sure you get tested, always wear a condom, and find out the health of anyone you plan on sleeping with before you sleep with them.

And a person should probably cut back on the sex if it starts to impact their life negatively and get in the way of them actually living (in other words, an addiction). But that goes for anything, not just sex.

If the whole society thought like u and there wasnt institutions like marriage...WOW...i am speechless....

this world will be crawling with STDs deformed babies and parentless, abandoned, love-deprived children...:o



sorry but we JUST HAVE TO HAVE RULES!

black and white ways to do certain "private" issues

i have lived in the most povertystricken place so i KNOW what i am talking about....u probably live in a world of knowledge of protected sex...

i am talking about uneducated people....who dont have educated governemnt to lead and guide them. yes i am talking about AIDS..

 

[JadeTigress]

If the whole society thought like u and there wasnt institutions like marriage...WOW...i am speechless....

this world will be crawling with STDs deformed babies and parentless, abandoned, love-deprived children...:o



sorry but we JUST HAVE TO HAVE RULES!

black and white ways to do certain "private" issues

i have lived in the most povertystricken place so i KNOW what i am talking about....u probably live in a world of knowledge of protected sex...

i am talking about uneducated people....who dont have educated governemnt to lead and guide them. yes i am talking about AIDS..

The lack of education is the culprit here. When people know how to protect themselves properly (be it against pregnancy and/or STDs), they'll put that information to use.

But when people have no idea what they're doing and go have sex anyway, that's when the problems start popping up. There are risks involved with sex, and you have to be aware of them and know how to minimize those risks as much as possible before you engage in any sexual activity.

And, unfortunately, I'm pretty sure we're already crawling with STDs and parentless, abandoned, love-deprived children. And I firmly believe that a good part of it is due to the suppression of comprehensive sex education. Again, if you don't have the knowledge, how can you possibly protect yourself and those around you?

And, just as an aside, I am proud to say that I am STD and pregnancy free. Because I know how to properly protect myself. I know all about the various contraception methods, and how to use them properly, and have studied them long and hard to decide which one was best for me. And I certainly have enough control over myself to find out if a potential partner is clean before I even begin to get sexual with them. For myself, if the person has an STD I just won't have sex with them. Easy enough. I'm not willing to risk my health for a little bit of pleasure. There's plenty of other opportunities for pleasure. And, if all else fails, my hands have never failed me.

 

[4christ88]

aww good for u girl!

yea i have seen too much...lost my youth as many would say a diplomat daughters kid would cause i have been exposed...deep down inside i dont trust the human race so much...so i over analyse everything but ends up turning up in my favour cos unfortunately i think guys make the poorest of decisions in the most crucial moments...thinking of situations i shouldnt have been in....

 

[JadeTigress]

I suspect you'll find that your stance on sex will change considerably once you actually have it.

Quoted for truth.

I know mine did. I'm very educated about sex, and was realistic about it. I knew not to expect my first time to be that great, and all that other good stuff. But I still had a bit of romanticism about it. Even though I knew in my head that sex just wasn't a big deal, my heart kept telling me that it was. Which is a big part of why I remained a virgin for so long.

But once I finally had sex, I woke up the next morning feeling exactly the same as I did the day before, and I thought, "That's it? Wow, that...really just wasn't a big deal at all. What's with all the fuss over it?"

 

[JCSeeker]

hahahaha! Wilds I did feel like playing the age card had been a mistake... oh well.

I'm not trying to pass judgement, or offer a solution. I'm interested in this discussion because it applies to me as well. My opinions are just that; opinions. I don't in any way assume that they are 'universal truths' as you put it.

 

[AetheriusLamia]

Gah. This thread sucks.

 

[JCSeeker]

This thread is nothing more than people posting their opinions about what they think sexual actions are or should be. I'm trying to investigate beyond opinion into truth, but no one seems to care (or to acknowledge that truth beyond opinion may exist.)

I didn't quote the Church only to say "Isn't this a nice idea?"

How would you like the thread to progress? How would you like to investigate? Facts and experiences are valuable, but they aren't truth. If you want the truth you should ask God and go straight to his Word.