You are right that the thread has wandered a little bit, just as they all seem to do after awhile, but you are referring to my reply to what Jason0047 wrote a few posts back.If by "doing wrong" you can substitute "rejecting creator" then yes, that's exactly what Calvinistic predetermination states.
That's not what He's saying.So your basically saying God's ways are not knowable in regards to Calvinism?
Also, how does the person being a conscious being change the scenario I put forth? Does man have free will and a conscience to determine his fate of doing either good or evil, or does God force some people to be a certain way? Is God the one who ultimately determines who is saved and not saved? Or can a person choose of their own free will as a part of God's drawing to either accept Him or reject Him? Jesus said to Jerusalem,
““O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones God’s messengers! How often I have wanted to gather your children together as a hen protects her chicks beneath her wings, but you wouldn’t let me.” (Matthew 23:37) (NLT).
In other words, Jesus desires Jerusalem to be saved, but they would not allow it.
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That's not what He's saying.
I would, but my past history with you indicates that you'll just jump to another verse, and we'll never actually deal with this.Then please enlighten the rest of us of what he is saying then.
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I would, but my past history with you indicates that you'll just jump to another verse, and we'll never actually deal with this.
1 Timothy 2:3-6
3 This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior,
4 who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
6 who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time.
2 Peter 3:9
9 The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.
1 John 2:2
2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.
Matthew 22:14
14 For many are called, but few are chosen.
Matthew 10:38
38 And whoever does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me.
Okay.Truth should not be hidden on my account. Other people come across this site seeking for answers.
Personally, I just don't think you have any good answers in regards to this topic. Hence, which is why you are really refusing to discuss it with me (involving Scripture).
Then again, I would be glad to be proven wrong on this.
May God bless you.
And may you please be well.
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Does man have free will and a conscience to determine his fate of doing either good or evil, or does God force some people to be a certain way? Is God the one who ultimately determines who is saved and not saved? Or can a person choose of their own free will as a part of God's drawing to either accept Him or reject Him?
Jesus said to Jerusalem, ““O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones God’s messengers! How often I have wanted to gather your children together as a hen protects her chicks beneath her wings, but you wouldn’t let me.” In other words, Jesus desires Jerusalem to be saved, but they would not allow it.
Yeah, a similar thought has crossed my mind before. Not sure how scripturally backed this position is though.
You think that the Bible provides ample evidence that this is not his way, but then again, it also provides plenty of verses that seem to support the concept.
As for your point here, yes, predestination would mean that God determines beforehand who is to receive Faith and so be saved, and who does not.
Hmmm. I've never seen Christ, but the Faith we're talking about here is Faith in him as God in the flesh and as my personal Lord and Savior.But then doesn't it become Faith in things seen?
I don't think so. I'm still the one having the Faith, and I'm not God. You might be thinking of this as amounting to God being terribly vain, and that that's a very human thing that we wouldn't expect of God, the Almighty, and the creator of everything. However, I see it as more like a bond between God and Man.Doesn't this make Faith something God does to witness to Himself?
2 Peter 3:9
9 The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.
might be a word-gameFive pointer. And I'm aware that His grace is effective. There's not much power in grace if it's not effective.
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