How does the 'Indwelling of the Holy Spirit' transform a Christian?

[reddogs]

The transformation of a true christian so that sin is cleansed from his heart and mind and he begins to show the fruits of the Holy Spirit seems to be simple enough. Yet the actual bearing of fruit seems to be unclear, so lets take a look at what the scripture says:

Life by the Spirit

16So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. 17For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. 18But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.
19The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. 25Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other. Galations 5:16-26


1Be imitators of God, therefore, as dearly loved children 2and live a life of love, just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.
3But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people. 4Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. 5For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a man is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.[a] 6Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God's wrath comes on those who are disobedient. 7Therefore do not be partners with them.
8For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light 9(for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth) 10and find out what pleases the Lord. 11Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. 12For it is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret. 13But everything exposed by the light becomes visible, 14for it is light that makes everything visible. This is why it is said:
"Wake up, O sleeper,
rise from the dead,
and Christ will shine on you."
15Be very careful, then, how you live—not as unwise but as wise, 16making the most of every opportunity, because the days are evil. 17Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the Lord's will is. 18Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit. 19Speak to one another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs. Sing and make music in your heart to the Lord, 20always giving thanks to God the Father for everything, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 21Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ. Ephesians 5: 1-21

So if we are led by the Spirit, we are not under the law, does that mean we can sin and go against it, I dont think thats what is meant. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit does not stop us from doing Gods will and showing love as that is the essence of the law, but it will puty into our hearts and minds the spirit of the law which is even better than the "letter of the law" that sinners use every means to 'get around'. Those who are transformed by the Holy Spirit follow Gods will so there is no need of the Law to show them sin.

It's possible as we see from story the rich young ruler to keep the "letter of the law" even without the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in their lives, but those who have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in their lives will not only keep the "letter of the law" but the spirit of the law as well.

Here is a excellent explanation on the fruits of the Spirit in this excerpt from Richard W. O'Ffill:

"...Although the first work of the Gospel in the life is cleansing from sin, this work is only the preparation for the primary purpose, which is the infilling of the Holy Spirit in the life. "A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you [the new birth]...And I will put My Spirit within you..." (Ezekiel 36:26, 27).
The promise in these verses has two components. The first is to give us a new spirit; that is, our own spirit is renewed and quickened by the work of the Holy Spirit. When this has been done, the rest of the promise states, "I will put My Spirit within you" to dwell in that new spirit.

God created man's heart for His dwelling. Where God is to dwell, He must have a habitation. With Adam He had to create a body before He could breathe the spirit of life into him. In Israel the tabernacle and the Temple had to be built and completed before God could come down and take possession. Likewise, a new heart is given and a new spirit put within us as the indispensable condition of God's Own Spirit being given to dwell within us.

But God's original purpose for man was frustrated. The purpose of the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus, remember, was to re-create a dwelling place of which it could be said, "The kingdom of God is within you" (Luke 17:21).

While Jesus walked this earth as a man, He was personally with His disciples. But it would not be until Pentecost that the promise of John 14:16, 17 would be fulfilled: "And I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, that He may abide with you forever; even the Spirit of truth; Whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth Him not, neither knoweth Him: but ye know Him; for He dwelleth with you, and shall be in you."

A wonderful and sobering thought is expressed in 1 Corinthians 6:19, 20: "What? Know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's."

While not smoking and drinking or going to movies and dancing, omitting mustard, vinegar, and black pepper in the diet, worshipping on the seventh day, and following a dress code are laudable, none of these things requires that a person be born again or, for that matter, even be a follower of Christ (the Hindus are traditionally vegans).

A true Christian is one whose heart is not only swept and clean but is filled in a wonderful and mysterious way with the Holy Spirit...."

"..As the Holy Spirit is welcomed and begins His work, the fruits of the spirit will begin to manifest itself in the transformation of the person, producing that which is in essence the very character of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

We are acquainted with the qualities of the fruit of the Spirit as shown in Galatians 5:22, 23: "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law." This list, however, is not exhaustive. There are other qualities enumerated in 1 Timothy 6:11, Romans 5:3-5, 2 Timothy 3:10, and 2 Peter 1:5-7.

Jesus made it clear: Those who claim to be His followers but do not bear fruit will be plucked up and taken away (John 15:2). He also declared that, inasmuch as many will profess to be His followers (Matthew 7:21, 22), the deciding factor will not be what they profess to believe or even what they do, but rather the kind of people they are (Mathew 12:33).

On looking back at much of our emphasis as Seventh-day Adventists in days gone by, Jesus might say to us, "These things ought you to have done, but not left the other undone."... In the past we were not wrong in teaching what not to do on the Sabbath, but we should have included Be kind, (gentle, joyful, and longsuffering, etc..). In some ways our lifestyle did not require a change of heart, only a change of mind.

Rest assured, in spite of impressions we might have received from our charismatic friends, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit does not lessen the impact of the letter of the law in our lives, but it will assure that we have the spirit of the law. While people can keep the letter of the law without the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in their lives, those who have the true Spirit in their hearts will not only keep the letter of the law but the spirit of the law as well...."

"Those who receive the seal of God will be those who have not only been swept and cleaned but who have been the dwelling place of the Holy Spirit and as a result have manifested His fruit in their lives..."

Here is Ellen White on the same topic:
"The mighty power of the Holy Spirit works an entire transformation in the character of the human agent, making him a new creature in Christ Jesus.... The peace that dwells in the soul is seen on the countenance. The words and actions express the love of the Saviour. There is no striving for the highest place. Self is renounced. The name of Jesus is written on all that is said and done."—Ellen G. White Comments, SDA Bible Commentary, vol. 6, p. 1117.

Just as leaven transforms a lump of dough into delicious bread, so the Holy Spirit transforms our lives into people who reflect Christ's character:

"As the leaven . . . works from within outward, so it is by the renewing of the heart that the grace of God works to transform the life. No mere external change is sufficient to bring us into harmony with God. There are many who try to reform by correcting this or that bad habit, and they hope in this way to become Christians, but they are beginning in the wrong place. Our first work is with the heart." - Christ's Object Lessons, p. 97.

 

[reddogs]

Many people 'claim' they are spirit-filled or 'have received the Holy Spirit', and speak the same giberish words as the santeria and voodoo worshipers in the islands and flop around like the mambo priestesses and go into trances like the houngan priest and worshipers. So do the devil-worshiping followers have the "Gift of the Spirit"? Of course not, they are filled with another spirit, but yet christians accept the same spirit and dont differentiate what is holy from the unholy, or think they can continue in sin (which is the same as sin from those who are not following God but the Evil one with their devil-worshiper) and be "spirit-filled". I've seen the island devil worship with my own eyes become "spirit-filled" and it wasn't the Holy Spirit so I am not speaking from the seat of my pants as background.

Other christians take the "style" that others tell them shows the spirit and imitate it so they can say they are "spirit filled" but have no "substance" or real experience with the Holy Spirit just the "look" as if they did, which I call the same as "cheap grace" (for those who pretend they repented from sin and accepted grace) or a "fake spirit".....

So how do we know if it is truly the Holy Spirit? Here is excerpt from a excellent piece on this from Richard W. O'Ffill:

"... I believe that it would be safe to say that everybody who is talking about the Holy Spirit doesn't have Him. I say this because Jesus Himself said that not everybody who would say," Lord, Lord", would enter into the kingdom of Heaven. (Matthew 7:22,23)
He even spoke of an incredible time in which some would say, "But Lord in your name we did all kinds of miracles" and he would say to them, "Depart from me ye workers of iniquity. I never knew you!"... Jesus said he would give the Holy Spirit to those who ask (Luke 11:13) and who obey Him. (Acts 5:32)

Can't you see it now, if the ground becomes Holy when God's presence is there and if the Ark of the Covenant was Holy because of the His presence so if we will ask God for the fullness of the Spirit, for the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Then we shall begin to comprehend what it means ... "Know you not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost whose temple you are."(1Corinthians 6:19). O wonder of wonders! Glory of glories! The responsibility of the Christian in relationship to the indwelling of the Spirit is wonderful and awe inspiring because once the Spirit takes up his abode with us, we become responsible to Him and he that would defile the temple of the Holy Ghost whose temple we are him will God destroy (1 Corinthians 3:17). Why? Because to whom much is given shall much be required! (Luke 12:47)

Is it possible to put too much emphasis on the Holy Spirit? Yes. You see, the Spirit does not create his own special interest group. A significant number of Christians have developed a cult of the Holy Spirit. They worship Him. He is the theme of their Christian lives.

This is not to be. The Spirit was not sent to testify of himself or for His own glory. He is transparent, nearly invisible if you please. His task is to not testify of himself but to testify of Jesus (John 15:26).
Jesus sent the Holy Spirit so that we would abide in Him. After all, Jesus, Himself, said that He is the vine and we are the branches (John 15:1-9). It is the Holy Spirit that makes this relationship possible.

Let me explain it another way. You see, life in the Holy Spirit in a process. Not a product. Though life in the Holy Spirit will produce results. It is not so much a result as it is a process. The Holy Spirit's work itself is better thought of as a process that is being affected in us.

Just as the branch of a tree is alive because of its connection to the tree, (the tree provides life to the branch), So every inclination that we have toward Christ, every true spiritual inclination that we have comes from the Spirit of God.

How can we know we have the Holy Spirit?...They tell me about a famous healer who will say, "I feel the Holy Spirit and I'm going to give it to you." He waves his arm and the choir falls out of its seats. You may have seen these charismatic ministers touch the people on their foreheads and they fall down backwards (ushers are waiting to catch them)

I visited a large church in South America where people all over the congregation would stand up start going slowly in circles and then fall down "smitten in the spirit". Is this what the Lord wants us to do? When we say we need the infilling of the Holy Spirit is this what is meant? Must we mumble some kind of gibberish, fall out of our chairs or fall backwards on the floor.

When our ministers are filled with the Holy Spirit does it mean they will be able to do mass healing no questions asked? I believe correct prayer for the sick is found in James 5 and you can see that it is not standing up before the television cameras and shouting, "Heal, heal, heal ..."

James 5 gives rather clear and concise instructions as to prayer for the sick and believe it or not it has to do with confession of sin and repentance. It says and "if he hath committed any sin it will be forgiven him." James 5:15). Healing in the 21st century is not to be with no strings attached but always for the glory of God and not of man.

I don't believe we should use a "miracle" yardstick to measure the blessings of God or the work of the Holy Spirit. I like what my Dad says, "We need to measure the Holy Spirit not by the gifts of the Spirit but by the fruit of the Spirit".

If being able to do miracles means for sure that a person has the Holy Spirit then the devil must have the Holy Spirit because the Scripture speaks of the spirits of devils working miracles. (Revelation 16:14)

This is why I believe that we must not look to the gifts of the Spirit as a sure test of having the Holy Spirit. The sure test of the Holy Spirit in the life is the fruit of the Spirit. Satan is a great imitator but the true fruit of the Spirit in the life cannot be counterfeited.

Notice the text in Galatians doesn't refer us to the fruits of the Spirit plural but fruit singular. That means that the fruit in Galatians 5 - love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness and self control are what being full of the Spirit is all about....

...I may be just too naive, but I can't understand how God would give his crowning gift, the actually indwelling of His Spirit, to a person who was living in (sin). Maybe I'm just not educated enough but I can't understand how God would give his crowning gift the actual indwelling of His Spirit to a person who was knowingly disobedient to the will of God...."

There are many spirits that are not of God. They have to be tested against Gods truth. If there is no understanding or if they speak nonsense that is not a real languange or give a false interpretation that goes against God's will, and teach not what is from God's truth and the testimony of Jesus, it is more likely than not, a false or evil spirit.

3But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent's cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. 4For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough. 2 Corinthians 11:3-4


The whole purpose of speaking in tongues was to speak to others from foreign lands or edify the church not just to babble unintelligently. If you cannot understand what a spirit has given and their is no one that speaks the language to interpret, scripture says its is bettter to stay quiet.

26What then shall we say, brothers? When you come together, everyone has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. All of these must be done for the strengthening of the church. 27If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. 28If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and God. 1 Corinthians 14:26-28

Here is a excerpt from another sermon from Richard W. O'Ffill on the Holy Spirit:

"....I don't want an experience with the Holy Spirit that has me climbing the walls, swooning in the aisles, or jumping up and down and clapping my hands. Though God is the God of wind, He is not in the wind. Though God is the God of fire, He is not in the fire. But He is in the still small voice.

I seek not an experience in the Holy Spirit that is hysterical or hypnotic. "One thing have I desired of the Lord, that I will seek after; that I may dwell in the house of the Lord all the days of my life, to behold the beauty of the Lord, and to inquire in His temple" (Psalm 27:4).

I don't even want the Holy Spirit in my life because I want power. I want the Holy Spirit in my life because I love the Lord Jesus Christ with all my heart. And though Jesus left us physically 2,000 years ago, in the Holy Spirit we have the most wonderful gift of all--Christ in us, the hope of glory.

I repeat, I don't want the Holy Spirit because I want power. I want Him to live in me because I love Him and crave His blessed presence.....The blessing that the Holy Spirit is in my life is best summed up in the words, "Emmanuel"--God with us. You see, that is what it's all about. The Holy Spirit is the most wonderful of all of God's gifts. I guess you can say that, when the Holy Spirit is in your life, it is God moved in with you.
A lot of problems disappear or become mute or irrelevant when that happens. You see, God is Holy, and when a Holy God moves in with you. His Holy presence will prepare, if you please, a sterile field in your life.
It is for this reason that Scripture says, "Old things are passed away; and behold, all things are become new" (2 Corinthians 5:17). It also gives meaning to the words, "What fellowship has light with darkness" (2 Corinthians 6:14). When you and I have the Holy Spirit in our lives, we will hate the world, and as we sing, the things of earth grow strangely dim in the light of His glory and grace.

If only God's people in this generation would pray for the Holy Spirit and mean it...A person who seeks the Holy Spirit for gratification of His spiritual fantasies or for personal gain in power or popularity may very well receive a spirit and exhibit those characteristics, but they will not be from the Holy Spirit of God, but from another spirit. God will not be used by us. He is not God because of us. But we are created by Him for His pleasure and for His glory.

When the Holy Spirit dwells in its fullness in our hearts, then we will grow and experience what it means. "Forever, O God, thy word is settled in Heaven" (Psalms 119:89). And also, "I delight to do Thy will, O My God; Yea, thy law is written in my heart" (Psalm 40:8).
Our worldliness or spiritual instability--the direct hit that many of us are taking from the flesh and the devil--are the direct result that we have not asked for, and thus have not received, the fullness of the Spirit.
Of one thing you may be sure, and that is, when you and I ask for and experience the indwelling of the Holy Spirit:

1. All known sin will go.
2. We will seek first the Kingdom of Heaven and His righteousness.
3. Sin will not have dominion over us.

We will no longer be under the law of sin and death. We will know what it means when it says, "There is now no condemnation to them who are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit"(Read Romans 6 and 8).

Listen to me. If your life is dominated by a bad temper, if you nurture a spirit of criticism, if you love to keep up with the Jones, if you have secret immoral practices, if you enjoy watching people break the law of God on television programs, and I could go on and on, you are not under grace but under law.

The Spirit of God in Christ has made us free from the law of sin and death. You may be thinking, "Are you saying that when the Holy Spirit is in us, we will be perfect? That we will never sin again?" I didn't say that. But this I know, and that is, when the Spirit of a Holy God dwells with us, we will begin to hate the things we have loved and we will be begin to love the things we have hated.

As the Holy Spirit dwells in your heart, if you will ask Him and cooperate with Him, He will give you an ongoing victory over the sins that have so long ruined our quality of life. The promise is sin shall not have dominion over you (Romans 6:14)....Why does the spiritual life have to be so complicated? I believe it is because, in the days of Pentecost, the truth about the Holy Spirit had not been yet distorted or misrepresented. But it must have been messed up before long though, because of Simon Magus. He wanted to buy it.
Remember the Holy Spirit does at least two levels of work:

1. Convicting of sin, of righteousness, and of judgment (John 16:8-10).
2. Then there is an in-filling of the Holy Ghost. This is much more than a work of conviction. It is an on-going condition by which we are actually purged of sin and changed fundamentally and permanently. This is the sealing work-the Holy Spirit settling us into the truth so that we cannot be moved....."

 

[Latreia]

Our Lord knows how you try. My heart listens, my soul raises up in light, pray for us both.

One Sister.

 

[reddogs]

As the Spirit leads, I follow...

The Lord brought you at the right time, with the right message of compassion, so that we might be blessed...

Your Brother in Christ
Red

 

[reddogs]

Matthew 5:11
"Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me.

 

[djconklin]

Yep!

Thanks reddogs for your great posts! Your studies are always a blessing to me.

 

[reddogs]

As the Spirit brings understanding to us from the word of God, it makes it clear who is filled with the indwelling of the Spirit, and who can only claim the same........

 

[Shizzle]

New International Version-
1 Corinthians 12:1 Now about spiritual gifts, brothers, I do not want you to be ignorant.

Many people 'claim' they are spirit-filled or 'have received the Holy Spirit', and speak the same giberish words as the santeria and voodoo worshipers in the islands and flop around like the mambo priestesses and go into trances like the houngan priest and worshipers.

1 Corinthians 14:2 For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God. Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries with his spirit.
1 Corinthians 14:13 For this reason anyone who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret what he says. 14: For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.

Paul is telling the corinthians that they need to "pray in tongues" at home and not in church. He is not disregarding the gift of tongues, nor is he calling it satanic.

1 Corinthians: 14:18 I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. 19 But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue.

Paul is not speaking about foreign languages, because he says "tongues" and no man understands them. They didnt have english as a common language like we did. I dont see any other way you could discount this as "proof" of the charismatic's tongues belief.

King James Version-
1 Corinthians 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

I do believe in a "gift of tongues" that is for spreading the gospel to other lands, but that is a different thing.
The real issue is if we believe that we will somehow be changed in the blink of an eye when we die. I do not care what you believe, we will have the same character and the same spirit we have now when we die. We have to step up and seek God, even though it is he that chooses us, and chose us. We have to seek God and practice "agape" love to everyone, and pray and worship God with as much of our time as we can.

 

[reddogs]

New International Version-
1 Corinthians 12:1 Now about spiritual gifts, brothers, I do not want you to be ignorant.



1 Corinthians 14:2 For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God. Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries with his spirit.
1 Corinthians 14:13 For this reason anyone who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret what he says. 14: For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.

Paul is telling the corinthians that they need to "pray in tongues" at home and not in church. He is not disregarding the gift of tongues, nor is he calling it satanic.

1 Corinthians: 14:18 I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. 19 But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue.

Paul is not speaking about foreign languages, because he says "tongues" and no man understands them. They didnt have english as a common language like we did. I dont see any other way you could discount this as "proof" of the charismatic's tongues belief.

King James Version-
1 Corinthians 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

I do believe in a "gift of tongues" that is for spreading the gospel to other lands, but that is a different thing.
The real issue is if we believe that we will somehow be changed in the blink of an eye when we die. I do not care what you believe, we will have the same character and the same spirit we have now when we die. We have to step up and seek God, even though it is he that chooses us, and chose us. We have to seek God and practice "agape" love to everyone, and pray and worship God with as much of our time as we can.

I think you are trying to say that their are 2 types of "gifts of tongues", one for foreign languages and the other for ?. Can you elabarate on this?

 

[Shizzle]

I think you are trying to say that their are 2 types of "gifts of tongues", one for foreign languages and the other for ?. Can you elabarate on this?

I meant the other being the "praying in the tongues" that you get when you are "infilled" with the holy spirit as a specific experience. The holy spirit giving us utterance, the charismatic's "babbling" where you speak unintelligible words to God.

There were many instances when recieveing the holy spirit as a specific happening were mentioned in scripture

Acts 8:14-17 When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them. When they arrived, they prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, because the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them; they had simply been baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
Acts 10:44-46 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God.
Acts 10:44-46There he found some disciples 2and asked them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" They answered, "No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit." So Paul asked, "Then what baptism did you receive?" "John's baptism," they replied. Paul said, "John's baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus." On hearing this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied. There were about twelve men in all.

But with this clearer please read my last post first before you respond.

1 Corinthians 14:2 For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God. Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries with his spirit.
1 Corinthians 14:13 For this reason anyone who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret what he says. 14: For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.

The message you said i agree with but tongues are a vital step in getting closer to God, and a large wall if you think them to be of satan.

1 Corinthians: 14:18 I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you.

 

[reddogs]

What is the purpose of these 'charismatic's "babbling" where you speak unintelligible words to God.' As I can take you to many islands were the devil worshipers "babble" with the same unintelligible words and they are not to God, so the question is, how do you tell if it is from the Holy Spirit or from another spirit from evil.......

 

[Shizzle]

1 Corinthians 3:3 Therefore I tell you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus be cursed," and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.

Satan can counterfeits God's works, satan can give people visions, dreams, prophecies, and speak thru your mouth.. But if your possessed you arent going to bear the fruit of Spirit.

Galations 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.

Now i do think some "charismatics" have decieved themselves into thinking the Spirit is "euphoria" and self-centered gooey-feelgood experiences, and allowed demons into themselves. But we can still walk in the spirit just as in the NT, and God will work miracles through us, not just because we ask, but because it is his will and pattern. But it is also God's will that we seek and ask for the gifts of the spirit.

1 Corinthians 14:1 Follow the way of love and eagerly desire spiritual gifts, especially the gift of prophecy.

Luke 11:5-8 Then he said to them, "Suppose one of you has a friend, and he goes to him at midnight and says, 'Friend, lend me three loaves of bread, because a friend of mine on a journey has come to me, and I have nothing to set before him.' "Then the one inside answers, 'Don't bother me. The door is already locked, and my children are with me in bed. I can't get up and give you anything.' I tell you, though he will not get up and give him the bread because he is his friend, yet because of the man's boldness he will get up and give him as much as he needs.

What is the purpose of these 'charismatic's "babbling" where you speak unintelligible words to God.' As I can take you to many islands were the devil worshipers "babble" with the same unintelligible words and they are not to God, so the question is, how do you tell if it is from the Holy Spirit or from another spirit from evil.......

In the bible (last post) it is shown that there is a specific experience of receiving the Holy Spirit, and i am not saying we do not have the Holy Spirit before this. But that when we are infilled with the Holy Spirit, the Spirit gives us utterance that 1 Corinthians 14:2 For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God. Indeed,no one understands him; he utters mysteries with his spirit. is our spirit talking to God, not our mind. The purpose is to:
1 Corinthians 14:4 He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church
To pray to God with our Spirits, to spend time with him and draw closer to him, and even sing to him in tongues.
1 Corinthians 14:15 So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my mind; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my mind.

When you pray in tongues alot and read and meditate on the word alot, thats really when the power and love of God starts flowing in your life.
The Acts 2:4 On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: "Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit."
The Acts 2:8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."

We need to be around other people, because only by working with other flawed people like ourselves, can we develop love.
1 Corinthians 13:1 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.

 

[reddogs]

1 Corinthians 3:3 Therefore I tell you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus be cursed," and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.

Satan can counterfeits God's works, satan can give people visions, dreams, prophecies, and speak thru your mouth.. But if your possessed you arent going to bear the fruit of Spirit.

Galations 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.

Now i do think some "charismatics" have decieved themselves into thinking the Spirit is "euphoria" and self-centered gooey-feelgood experiences, and allowed demons into themselves. But we can still walk in the spirit just as in the NT, and God will work miracles through us, not just because we ask, but because it is his will and pattern. But it is also God's will that we seek and ask for the gifts of the spirit.

1 Corinthians 14:1 Follow the way of love and eagerly desire spiritual gifts, especially the gift of prophecy.

Luke 11:5-8 Then he said to them, "Suppose one of you has a friend, and he goes to him at midnight and says, 'Friend, lend me three loaves of bread, because a friend of mine on a journey has come to me, and I have nothing to set before him.' "Then the one inside answers, 'Don't bother me. The door is already locked, and my children are with me in bed. I can't get up and give you anything.' I tell you, though he will not get up and give him the bread because he is his friend, yet because of the man's boldness he will get up and give him as much as he needs.


In the bible (last post) it is shown that there is a specific experience of receiving the Holy Spirit, and i am not saying we do not have the Holy Spirit before this. But that when we are infilled with the Holy Spirit, the Spirit gives us utterance that 1 Corinthians 14:2 For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God. Indeed,no one understands him; he utters mysteries with his spirit. is our spirit talking to God, not our mind. The purpose is to:
1 Corinthians 14:4 He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church
To pray to God with our Spirits, to spend time with him and draw closer to him, and even sing to him in tongues.
1 Corinthians 14:15 So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my mind; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my mind.

When you pray in tongues alot and read and meditate on the word alot, thats really when the power and love of God starts flowing in your life.
The Acts 2:4 On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: "Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit."
The Acts 2:8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."

We need to be around other people, because only by working with other flawed people like ourselves, can we develop love.
1 Corinthians 13:1 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.

I was watching some of these Word of Faith ministers and they spoke in tongues with words and signs that could only come from something other than God, one even said what definitely sounded like "I serve Satan", no one tests or checks what they do or say when they are babbling their utterings. This has been the problem when unprepared and unknowing people allow themselves to be taken over by spirits, they dont test or even listen or check to see if they are unholy or holy and for all intents and purposes allow themselves to be taken by the same evil spirits as the Voodoo priestests and Santeria devil worshipers.........

 

[Shizzle]

I was watching some of these Word of Faith ministers and they spoke in tongues with words and signs that could only come from something other than God, one even said what definitely sounded like "I serve Satan", no one tests or checks what they do or say when they are babbling their utterings. This has been the problem when unprepared and unknowing people allow themselves to be taken over by spirits, they dont test or even listen or check to see if they are unholy or holy and for all intents and purposes allow themselves to be taken by the same evil spirits as the Voodoo priestests and Santeria devil worshipers.........

Luke 11:11"Which of you fathers, if your son asks for a fish, will give him a snake instead? Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!"

Whether or not individual preachers are possessed or not is to be discerned. But God only infills us with the Holy Spirit once. After this you would have to fall a long way to lose the Holy Spirit inside you. You dont have to logically "test" the Holy Spirit every second. You will know them by their fruits, and the mark of satan is that he will deny the truth of Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 6:4It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

From the bible it is shown (2 of my posts ago) that there is a specific experience of recieveing the Holy Spirit aside from accepting Jesus Christ.

Acts 8:17 Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
1 Timothy 4:14 Do not neglect your gift, which was given you through a prophetic message when the body of elders laid their hands on you.

Once you are filled with the Holy Spirit, if you yield to the Holy Spirit and will that you would pray to God in tongues,
1 Thessalonians 5:19 Do not put out the Spirit's fire;
Then the Holy Spirit will give you utterance in "tongues", it is not babble, it is real languages ranging from the tongues of men to the tongues of angels.
1 Corinthians 14:2 For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God. Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries with his spirit.
1 Corinthians 13:1 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.

Word of Faith ministers dont represent the Holy Spirit, it doesnt matter what theyre doing... Even though i do believe WOF to be the "new wine" of God, i do agree that many people calling themselves wof/charismatic and going on TV like this are possessed.. Voodoo priests prophecy and get visions, devil worshippers get lead by satan, they are counterfeits of the real works of God, but this doesn't discredit the genuine. God wills that we are all infilled with the Holy Spirit.

Acts 10:44-46 There he found some disciples and asked them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" They answered, "No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit." So Paul asked, "Then what baptism did you receive?" "John's baptism," they replied. Paul said, "John's baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus." On hearing this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied. There were about twelve men in all.

The infilling is not an emotional feeling thing, its not some mental thing where you "think" that you were lead to do something or another (i am not saying the Spirit doesnt lead us before we are infilled). Its about faith in God and the redeeming work of Jesus Christ, that we may become more like his character and communicate more directly with God through the utterances of the Holy Spirit.

Gods not going to give us a demon when we ask for the Holy Spirit in obedience. Now if we sit on the floor chanting "holy spirit" over and over for eight hours in an attempt to recieve the infilling, thats a different story. If we ask for the Holy Spirit while doing a ouija board or smoking a bowl, thats a different story. But if we are sons of God, then if your son asks for a fish, will give him a snake instead?

 

[reddogs]

You have certainly been given the spiritual gift of discerment as your answers are true.........

Still, you must be viligant as there are many who are filled with spirits that just like in scripture are 'unclean'..

1. Zechariah 13:2
   And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land.
   Zechariah 13:1-3 (in Context) Zechariah 13 (Whole Chapter)
2. Matthew 10:1
   And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.
   Matthew 10:1-3 (in Context) Matthew 10 (Whole Chapter)
3. Matthew 12:43
   When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.
   Matthew 12:42-44 (in Context) Matthew 12 (Whole Chapter)
4. Mark 1:23
   And there was in their synagogue a man with an unclean spirit; and he cried out,
   Mark 1:22-24 (in Context) Mark 1 (Whole Chapter)
5. Mark 1:26
   And when the unclean spirit had torn him, and cried with a loud voice, he came out of him.
   Mark 1:25-27 (in Context) Mark 1 (Whole Chapter)
6. Mark 1:27
   And they were all amazed, insomuch that they questioned among themselves, saying, What thing is this? what new doctrine is this? for with authority commandeth he even the unclean spirits, and they do obey him.
   Mark 1:26-28 (in Context) Mark 1 (Whole Chapter)
7. Mark 3:11
   And unclean spirits, when they saw him, fell down before him, and cried, saying, Thou art the Son of God.
   Mark 3:10-12 (in Context) Mark 3 (Whole Chapter)
8. Mark 3:30
   Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.
   Mark 3:29-31 (in Context) Mark 3 (Whole Chapter)
9. Mark 5:2
   And when he was come out of the ship, immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit,
   Mark 5:1-3 (in Context) Mark 5 (Whole Chapter)
10. Mark 5:8
    For he said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit.
    Mark 5:7-9 (in Context) Mark 5 (Whole Chapter)
11. Mark 5:13
    And forthwith Jesus gave them leave. And the unclean spirits went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea, (they were about two thousand and were choked in the sea.
    Mark 5:12-14 (in Context) Mark 5 (Whole Chapter)
12. Mark 6:7
    And he called unto him the twelve, and began to send them forth by two and two; and gave them power over unclean spirits;
    Mark 6:6-8 (in Context) Mark 6 (Whole Chapter)
13. Mark 7:25
    For a certain woman, whose young daughter had an unclean spirit, heard of him, and came and fell at his feet:
    Mark 7:24-26 (in Context) Mark 7 (Whole Chapter)
14. Luke 4:33
    And in the synagogue there was a man, which had a spirit of an unclean devil, and cried out with a loud voice,
    Luke 4:32-34 (in Context) Luke 4 (Whole Chapter)
15. Luke 4:36
    And they were all amazed, and spake among themselves, saying, What a word is this! for with authority and power he commandeth the unclean spirits, and they come out.
    Luke 4:35-37 (in Context) Luke 4 (Whole Chapter)
16. Luke 6:18
    And they that were vexed with unclean spirits: and they were healed.
    Luke 6:17-19 (in Context) Luke 6 (Whole Chapter)
17. Luke 8:29
    (For he had commanded the unclean spirit to come out of the man. For oftentimes it had caught him: and he was kept bound with chains and in fetters; and he brake the bands, and was driven of the devil into the wilderness.)
    Luke 8:28-30 (in Context) Luke 8 (Whole Chapter)
18. Luke 9:42
    And as he was yet a coming, the devil threw him down, and tare him. And Jesus rebuked the unclean spirit, and healed the child, and delivered him again to his father.
    Luke 9:41-43 (in Context) Luke 9 (Whole Chapter)
19. Luke 11:24
    When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out.
    Luke 11:23-25 (in Context) Luke 11 (Whole Chapter)
20. Acts 5:16
    There came also a multitude out of the cities round about unto Jerusalem, bringing sick folks, and them which were vexed with unclean spirits: and they were healed every one.
    Acts 5:15-17 (in Context) Acts 5 (Whole Chapter)
21. Acts 8:7
    For unclean spirits, crying with loud voice, came out of many that were possessed with them: and many taken with palsies, and that were lame, were healed.
    Acts 8:6-8 (in Context) Acts 8 (Whole Chapter)
22. Revelation 16:13
    And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
    Revelation 16:12-14 (in Context) Revelation 16 (Whole Chapter)

 

[sumofox]

Luke 11:11"Which of you fathers, if your son asks for a fish, will give him a snake instead? Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!"

Whether or not individual preachers are possessed or not is to be discerned. But God only infills us with the Holy Spirit once. After this you would have to fall a long way to lose the Holy Spirit inside you. You dont have to logically "test" the Holy Spirit every second. You will know them by their fruits, and the mark of satan is that he will deny the truth of Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 6:4It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

From the bible it is shown (2 of my posts ago) that there is a specific experience of recieveing the Holy Spirit aside from accepting Jesus Christ.

Acts 8:17 Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
1 Timothy 4:14 Do not neglect your gift, which was given you through a prophetic message when the body of elders laid their hands on you.

Once you are filled with the Holy Spirit, if you yield to the Holy Spirit and will that you would pray to God in tongues,
1 Thessalonians 5:19 Do not put out the Spirit's fire;
Then the Holy Spirit will give you utterance in "tongues", it is not babble, it is real languages ranging from the tongues of men to the tongues of angels.
1 Corinthians 14:2 For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God. Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries with his spirit.
1 Corinthians 13:1 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.

Word of Faith ministers dont represent the Holy Spirit, it doesnt matter what theyre doing... Even though i do believe WOF to be the "new wine" of God, i do agree that many people calling themselves wof/charismatic and going on TV like this are possessed.. Voodoo priests prophecy and get visions, devil worshippers get lead by satan, they are counterfeits of the real works of God, but this doesn't discredit the genuine. God wills that we are all infilled with the Holy Spirit.

Acts 10:44-46 There he found some disciples and asked them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" They answered, "No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit." So Paul asked, "Then what baptism did you receive?" "John's baptism," they replied. Paul said, "John's baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus." On hearing this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied. There were about twelve men in all.

The infilling is not an emotional feeling thing, its not some mental thing where you "think" that you were lead to do something or another (i am not saying the Spirit doesnt lead us before we are infilled). Its about faith in God and the redeeming work of Jesus Christ, that we may become more like his character and communicate more directly with God through the utterances of the Holy Spirit.

Gods not going to give us a demon when we ask for the Holy Spirit in obedience. Now if we sit on the floor chanting "holy spirit" over and over for eight hours in an attempt to recieve the infilling, thats a different story. If we ask for the Holy Spirit while doing a ouija board or smoking a bowl, thats a different story. But if we are sons of God, then if your son asks for a fish, will give him a snake instead?

What is the true baptism ? is it matt 28.19 or the book of acts.

 

[Shizzle]

Matthew 28:19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

What is the true baptism ? is it matt 28.19 or the book of acts.

The disciples continued baptising with water after they had recieved the "baptism of the Holy Spirit." Even once baptising them with water just after they had recieved the Holy Spirit. So I believe we should still baptise with water..

Acts 10:44-48 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God.
Then Peter said, "Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have." So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.

We only call the act of God giving people the Holy Spirit an "infilling" or "baptism" so that we dont confuse it with God moving in our spirits. The Bible usually just says they "recieved the holy spirit".

The Holy Spirit coming into us doesnt necessarily happen when we are baptised, nor does it require other christians for us to be filled. Though many times people are baptised in the Holy Spirit at prayer meetings, when people lay hands on us, or water baptisms, God would just as easily fill us with the Spirit while we are taking a shower.

 

[reddogs]

A question that came up on the Trinity, the Father and Son are worthy to be worshiped, but is the Holy Spirit as its purpose and work is different?