How does the EOC deal with this question?

RKO · Sep 25, 2013

As one who is not yet Orthodox and hasn't ever displayed the symbol, I don't really have a position to discuss this.
I do want to tell GracefulLamb that my comment about people being "more Orthodox than others," I was only bringing up the fact that this is the first thread that ever made me feel slightly unwelcome as a non-Orthodox. I wasn't even aware that you GL had said anything that might cause you to think I was talking about you. I certainly did not mean any offense and hope you stay around!
As for me, I'm not going anywhere.
can't we all just admit that we are here because we admire Holy Orthodoxy, even those who aren't members? Is that not enough?

rusmeister · Sep 25, 2013

RKO said:
can't we all just admit that we are here because we admire Holy Orthodoxy, even those who aren't members? Is that not enough?

i think you missed what we were talking about, RKO, and that we all agree that, in general, we all admire Orthodoxy. That last focus was on the problem in Orthodoxy, especially internet Orthodoxy, of people who are not Orthodox either passing themselves off as, or at last giving a strong impression of being Orthodox and teaching as if they were. That's different from inquirers that come in and ask. That's why jurisdiction and canonicity - being able to name your bishop and diocese - is important.

RKO · Sep 25, 2013

rusmeister said:
i think you missed what we were talking about, RKO, and that we all agree that, in general, we all admire Orthodoxy. That last focus was on the problem in Orthodoxy, especially internet Orthodoxy, of people who are not Orthodox either passing themselves off as, or at last giving a strong impression of being Orthodox and teaching as if they were. That's different from inquirers that come in and ask. That's why jurisdiction and canonicity - being able to name your bishop and diocese - is important.

Rus, please stop assuming i am missing your points. I did not. I was simply asking if we could all be kind in our discussions. I may have overestimated

Dorothea · Sep 25, 2013

gracefullamb said:
For those inquirers that have posted here about changing your icon or adding a signature, title please see Matt's post #38. All of you guys have been clear about being an inquirer or a catechumen. You all, when answering posts of what Orthodox believe, had made it clear where you are in your journey and stated to make sure that you have the understanding right.

The problem was with people answering what Orthodox beliefs/ teachings are and giving a questionable answer because they are not really Orthodox but were/ are trying to present themself as such. I hope that eases all your minds on what I was referring to and ask for your forgiveness for the offense I have caused.

Now since, according to even my own brethren, I am apparently a Pharisee and have people accusing me of thinking I am more Orthodox than them, I done with this thread and think it is time to take a break from TAW.

Let's just be totally forthright here to clear this up.

I agree with graceful, rus, and others here. We have no problem with those honest inquirers such as Tallguy, cogent, RKO, etc.

For me personally, I, too, have been questioning Yeshua HaDerekh because the posts I've read of his in certain threads sound as if he is judaizing, which The Church fought against back in the early centuries of its existence, so imo, one shouldn't be doing that if one is Orthodox. But I could be totally off since I don't frequent all the threads here and am not on here that much lately.

Tonks · Sep 25, 2013

Dewi Sant said:
I do not know the feasibility, but perhaps a grey (or other distinguishable colour) tri-barred cross could be proposed for Catechumens.

Just a little trivia from way back in the day on CF (especially for those that remember me - and when i was one of the high staff muckety mucks around this place).

Way back in time the faith icon was locked once you registered an account. It could be changed but the change required one of the moderating staff to do so. This was changed for a variety of good reasons - the fact that the number of people that had permissions to do so you could count on one or two fingers but, more importantly, as a site of, by, and for a variety of denominations (as it were) we realized that many folks were in different places on their path and should be up to them to identify how they, er, identify. Note that "denomination" is used in the forum management sense and not whether denominations are correct or whether they truly exist within the Church. I'm sure you all get the point...

There was also a later discussion about various colored icons for each group - specifically catechumens within Ortodoxy and the Eastern Rites within Catholicism. I'm sure there were more but those are the ones that stood out. It ended up getting bogged down in a bunch of legalistic mumbo jumbo and increased the number of arguments over who should "wear" what icon. Further it would have caused the various staff (who are in no way qualified - and I include myself in that statement) to parse out various arguments on whether or not person x was qualified to wear faith icon x. It was all pretty silly and the proposal sort of died on the vine. Plus it violated the "if you can agree with the Creed as stated in the rules you can self select your faith group etc etc". It really was a bit of a mess.

So, just by way of background from many, many years ago.

Myself? I was a cradle Catholic. I changed to the Orthodox icon when I became a catechumen even though I had been attending the Liturgy for quite some time before. It was the right time for me and it was how I wanted to be identified on the forums. Whether my timeline is right for someone else I cannot say or judge.

At any rate...thus endeth the history lesson.

Gnarwhal · Sep 25, 2013

Tonks said:
Just a little trivia from way back in the day on CF (especially for those that remember me - and when i was one of the high staff muckety mucks around this place).

Way back in time the faith icon was locked once you registered an account. It could be changed but the change required one of the moderating staff to do so. This was changed for a variety of good reasons - the fact that the number of people that had permissions to do so you could count on one or two fingers but, more importantly, as a site of, by, and for a variety of denominations (as it were) we realized that many folks were in different places on their path and should be up to them to identify how they, er, identify. Note that "denomination" is used in the forum management sense and not whether denominations are correct or whether they truly exist within the Church. I'm sure you all get the point...

There was also a later discussion about various colored icons for each group - specifically catechumens within Ortodoxy and the Eastern Rites within Catholicism. I'm sure there were more but those are the ones that stood out. It ended up getting bogged down in a bunch of legalistic mumbo jumbo and increased the number of arguments over who should "wear" what icon. Further it would have caused the various staff (who are in no way qualified - and I include myself in that statement) to parse out various arguments on whether or not person x was qualified to wear faith icon x. It was all pretty silly and the proposal sort of died on the vine. Plus it violated the "if you can agree with the Creed as stated in the rules you can self select your faith group etc etc". It really was a bit of a mess.

So, just by way of background from many, many years ago.

Myself? I was a cradle Catholic. I changed to the Orthodox icon when I became a catechumen even though I had been attending the Liturgy for quite some time before. It was the right time for me and it was how I wanted to be identified on the forums. Whether my timeline is right for someone else I cannot say or judge.

At any rate...thus endeth the history lesson.

Hey thanks for those fun facts, Tonks, I appreciate that kind of an education. Honestly, I can see the merit for having distinct icons to differentiate between the catechumen and the chrismated/confirmed, but I can also see how that would become a complicated issue with the staff. Although for me personally, I think it'd be best for an issue like that to be discussed only amongst staffers whose Church practices a catechism, those who don't would have an appreciate for that sort of thing and thus wouldn't see how that sort of thing could be important or valuable here on CF.

Oh and, not sure if you've been back around here for a while or what, but welcome back!

rusmeister · Sep 25, 2013

RKO said:
Rus, please stop assuming i am missing your points. I did not. I was simply asking if we could all be kind in our discussions. I may have overestimated

Ho, rko,
It looks like you're assuming that I'm assuming.
Really, if you didn't miss it, the thing to do in your comment is to briefly acknowledge it. As it stands, it looks like you were saying there that this should not be an issue at all, while some of us are still saying that it is (and is not at all about you).
And of course, I agree that we should be both kind and polite.
Hope that doesn't rub the wrong way.

RKO · Sep 26, 2013

rusmeister said:
Ho, rko,
It looks like you're assuming that I'm assuming.
Really, if you didn't miss it, the thing to do in your comment is to briefly acknowledge it. As it stands, it looks like you were saying there that this should not be an issue at all, while some of us are still saying that it is (and is not at all about you).
And of course, I agree that we should be both kind and polite.
Hope that doesn't rub the wrong way.

You are still assuming.

Anhelyna · Sep 26, 2013

I'm coming in at this point - I've just read the thread.

Welcome back Tonks

The Faith Icon is a problem - yes in some places it is probably 'mis-used'

I have mine hidden - Mods and staff can see it - because despite efforts in the past there has never been a faith icon for ECs. The red 'Jerusalem' cross is tied to the Latin Church - it was suggested to me that possibly changing the colour would be an acceptable solution for ECs - I'm honest I didn't like the idea , and I said so . I also felt that taking the 3 bar Cross [ which I do wear as a neck cross ] would also be wrong.

My Solution - well you can see - I proclaim myself to be what I am - a member of the UGCC.

The fact still remains - I'm more at home here than I am in OBOB - though I do enjoy myself posting there, and trying to get folk to believe that the East , both Catholic and Orthodox, has Traditions and traditions which are valid.

I KNOW that you nice folk , understand that I'm careful in what I say , and I'll never say anything that is not in line with the teachings of Orthodoxy, and I think you all from the bottom of my heart for the friendship , courtesy and support you have given me both in the past and at present

ArmyMatt · Sep 26, 2013

welcome back Tonks

and we are glad you put up with us Anhelyna!

27B6 · Sep 26, 2013

Gxg (G²) · Sep 26, 2013

Anhelyna said:
I have mine hidden - Mods and staff can see it - because despite efforts in the past there has never been a faith icon for ECs. The red 'Jerusalem' cross is tied to the Latin Church - it was suggested to me that possibly changing the colour would be an acceptable solution for ECs - I'm honest I didn't like the idea , and I said so .

My Solution - well you can see - I proclaim myself to be what I am - a member of the UGCC.

The fact still remains - I'm more at home here than I am in OBOB - though I do enjoy myself posting there, and trying to get folk to believe that the East , both Catholic and Orthodox, has Traditions and traditions which are valid.

I KNOW that you nice folk , understand that I'm careful in what I say , and I'll never say anything that is not in line with the teachings of Orthodoxy, and I think you all from the bottom of my heart for the friendship , courtesy and support you have given me both in the past and at present

If I may say...

I've often wondered why they had icons available for those who are Eastern Orthodox or Oriential Orthodox and Roman Catholic - yet nothing available for those who are Eastern Catholics....or those withthe Assyrian Church of the East (which another Catholic known as WisdomTree actually petitioned for icons for them).

Some noted the dynamic of dual icons being a possibility if living life in families where you have others of differing faiths (a social phenomena even I grew up with). But I feel ya as it concerns being on other forums/sharing the Beauty of the East.

And I'm so, so, so glad for my Orthodox Brothers/Sisters here (some of whom are close friends I connect with daily outside of online world - and others who are always good for gracious and inspirational conversation/amiable relations) and who've helped me through so many struggles (be it personal ones on my own or interpersonal ones and theological ones as well) in my life.

Always refreshing to experience - especially when you're going through rough or difficult times and others reach out to you to let you know they're thinking of you/feel you're valuable Better that than having a war zone going on as with much of CF in other places when it feels more like Vietnam rather than a sanctuary to find rest/help from fellow pilgrims.

Here is one of the most encouraging/insightful forums I've seen in my lifetime - and the level of intelligent/thoughtful and reflective dialogue and shared living on our journey to the Lord is something that's rare....including the willingness to wrestle through with others on hard issues/concerns.

How does the EOC deal with this question?

RKO

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rusmeister

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RKO

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Dorothea

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Tonks

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Gnarwhal

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rusmeister

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RKO

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Anhelyna

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ArmyMatt

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27B6

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Gxg (G²)

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How does the EOC deal with this question?

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☩ Broman Catholic ☩

A Russified American Orthodox Chestertonian

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Handmaid of God

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Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7)

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