How does the EOC deal with this question?

[gurneyhalleck1]

Hi GL,

No offense, but that is not true. I NEVER sported the 3-bar cross of Holy Orthodoxy until the very day of my chrismation. I made it a point to make people aware that I didn't want to do that. A few people told me to go ahead and do it when I became a catechumen, but I wouldn't. I didn't want false advertising. I became Orthodox and then put up the icon. You might be thinking of someone else.

Best Regards,
Gurney

TGurney sported it for awhile before he and his family were chrismated. T.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Even Jews Matt?

In Orthodoxy, we say we know where the church IS, we do not know where it ISN'T...

I certainly hope so.

and let's not call anyone out here please. Yeshua said he is canonically Orthodox, so I think it's best we run with that. even if he wasn't, there is certainly no way to prove it.

 

[gracefullamb]

.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I just read you say that I had the icon before I was chrismated. I didn't. That's all.

I know that, you misunderstood me. I was not saying you had the tri-bar cross before you chrismated. I stated you had the seeker icon for a little while, after you had made the decision to leave your old faith for good but before you were chrismated. Another words I was using you as an example as someone who always made it clear you were not yet Orthodox. I do remember the discussion about when to put it up and people telling you to go ahead but you deciding to wait until you were chrismated.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

I certainly hope so.

and let's not call anyone out here please. Yeshua said he is canonically Orthodox, so I think it's best we run with that. even if he wasn't, there is certainly no way to prove it.

Thanks Matt. I AM cradle Orthodox, have been ALL my life. There is no reason I would need to "pretend" I was Orthodox.

 

[rusmeister]

Thanks Matt. I AM cradle Orthodox, have been ALL my life. There is no reason I would need to "pretend" I was Orthodox.

I'm totally ready to believe that, but if anyone who says they are Orthodox are coy about sharing what jurisdiction they are under, my alarm bells go off, because the reasons can hardly be because they are canonical Orthodox. So I'm sure you'd share in your next post exactly what jurisdiction you are under, as I just did, to dispel my absurd doubts. Thanks!

 

[Kristos]

Jurisdiction is an interesting word - it's only used once in the KJV...

Luk_23:7 And as soon as he knew that he belonged unto Herod's jurisdiction, he sent him to Herod, who himself also was at Jerusalem at that time.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

I'm totally ready to believe that, but if anyone who says they are Orthodox are coy about sharing what jurisdiction they are under, my alarm bells go off, because the reasons can hardly be because they are canonical Orthodox. So I'm sure you'd share in your next post exactly what jurisdiction you are under, as I just did, to dispel my absurd doubts. Thanks!

Coy? Orthodoxy is Orthodoxy...Russian, Antiochian, Romanian, OCA...take your pick! What you really want to know is what ethnicity of Orthodoxy I adhere to? I served under Met. Theodosius in the OCA and currently under the EP. Good enough for you?

 

[AV1]

I am glad this discussion has come up. I was not aware that my having the tri-bar cross would offend anyone. I changed my signature to correct the issue, but I am leaving the cross, because that is how I identify myself to the CF body at large, and because I have committed my heart to the Orthodox Church.

I think it is important that everyone knows the perspective with which I post, Chrismated or not. The idea that somehow that symbol on here makes anyone more "right" to post their "opinion" on any matter of theological questions, doctrinal points, or anything else for that matter, is somewhat humorous to me...any ordained Bishops or Priests posting in this thread?!

We post from experience, and our own understanding. Nothing more, and nothing less.

Let's not get too full of ourselves, and miss the point of sharing with the community, especially with the newest of us...like me.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

I am glad this discussion has come up. I was not aware that my having the tri-bar cross would offend anyone. I changed my signature to correct the issue, but I am leaving the cross, because that is how I identify myself to the CF body at large, and because I have committed my heart to the Orthodox Church.

I think it is important that everyone knows the perspective with which I post, Chrismated or not. The idea that somehow that symbol on here makes anyone more "right" to post their "opinion" on any matter of theological questions, doctrinal points, or anything else for that matter, is somewhat humorous to me...any ordained Bishops or Priests posting in this thread?!

We post from experience, and our own understanding. Nothing more, and nothing less.

Let's not get too full of ourselves, and miss the point of sharing with the community, especially with the newest of us...like me.

Don't let the Pharisees here get you down

 

[RKO]

Lord have mercy. I ran away from the "I'm more catholic than you" argument. Are we starting that here now?

 

[Kristos]

Coy? Orthodoxy is Orthodoxy...Russian, Antiochian, Romanian, OCA...take your pick! What you really want to know is what ethnicity of Orthodoxy I adhere to? I served under Met. Theodosius in the OCA and currently under the EP. Good enough for you?

I honestly don't think that was Rus' intent. There are groups out there that claim to be Orthodox, but aren't in communion or even related.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I can't speak for others, but one of the main reasons I ran away from Catholicism and found a home in Orthodoxy was for unity and to get away from the sects, groups, and controversies junk. Traditionalists versus Vatican IIers, women priest advocates vs. orthodox Catholics, on and on...

I wish we could all seek some comradery here instead of exacerbating the tension.

 

[inconsequential]

Lord have mercy. I ran away from the "I'm more catholic than you" argument. Are we starting that here now?

Well, if people weren't the way we are, that whole "love thy neighbor" thing would be so easy anyone could do it.

 

[truthseeker32]

To the original question, I think it is a very good one and one that I too have struggled with. The first thing I will point out is that unlike Christianity in the West which puts more emphasis on whether you have the right ideologies, Eastern Orthodoxy seems to place additional and perhaps primary emphasis on how a person lives, or how their ideologies help them draw closer to God. If God's objective was merely to make men believe correctly, as a lot of Evangelicals claim, then the world as it is would indeed seem very cruel, but God's objective is to sanctify all of humanity, which Goes far beyond simply believing that Jesus is Lord (not that this isn't important). This is why an Orthodox Christian can truly say that a Buddhist or Catholic may be closer to God than he himself is.

You might think of it like an equation: 100 Right belief + 100 practice in accordance to this right belief would be the ideal for optimal outcome. An Orthodox Christian might have 100 right belief but only 20 practice in accordance equaling 120, whereas a catholic may have 80 right belief and 75 practice in accordance with right belief equaling 155. The ideal is always best, and Orthodoxy provides the best formula for deification, but one has to follow the formula.

Another way one might think of it is a road map with multiple routes between point A and point B (can you tell I have thought about this stuff?). Route 1 (Orthodoxy) is the most direct. It gets you to your destination in the best, most efficient manner. Routes 2 (Catholicism), 3 (Protestantism), 4 (Mormonism), ...etc. are more or less similar, but take you a roundabout way that may take longer, or may be a bit more difficult to follow. Perhaps they don't take you to the right place at all (Hedonism, Satanism). Hopefully we have a compass (God or Moral intuition) and reasoning mind that will eventually help us realize we may need a better route.

 

[AV1]

I can't speak for others, but one of the main reasons I ran away from Catholicism and found a home in Orthodoxy was for unity and to get away from the sects, groups, and controversies junk. Traditionalists versus Vatican IIers, women priest advocates vs. orthodox Catholics, on and on...

I wish we could all seek some comradery here instead of exacerbating the tension.

Yes.

 

[truthseeker32]

I can't speak for others, but one of the main reasons I ran away from Catholicism and found a home in Orthodoxy was for unity and to get away from the sects, groups, and controversies junk.

This could almost be interpreted as sarcasm

 

[ArmyMatt]

I am glad this discussion has come up. I was not aware that my having the tri-bar cross would offend anyone. I changed my signature to correct the issue, but I am leaving the cross, because that is how I identify myself to the CF body at large, and because I have committed my heart to the Orthodox Church.

I think it is important that everyone knows the perspective with which I post, Chrismated or not. The idea that somehow that symbol on here makes anyone more "right" to post their "opinion" on any matter of theological questions, doctrinal points, or anything else for that matter, is somewhat humorous to me...any ordained Bishops or Priests posting in this thread?!

We post from experience, and our own understanding. Nothing more, and nothing less.

Let's not get too full of ourselves, and miss the point of sharing with the community, especially with the newest of us...like me.

nah, you are good man. rus was speaking about those who start spouting off the Church as if they had been Orthodox since time immemorial, when they have not even been chrismated yet, or those who are in schism who try to speak for us or what the Church teaches. you cause no offense

 

[Tallguy88]

nah, you are good man. rus was speaking about those who start spouting off the Church as if they had been Orthodox since time immemorial, when they have not even been chrismated yet, or those who are in schism who try to speak for us or what the Church teaches. you cause no offense

I hope I caused no offense either. Regardless, I'll keep the generic icon for the time being, so as not to confuse.

 

[ArmyMatt]

nope, you are good too Tallguy, I don't think rus was referring to any of y'all