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How does the EOC deal with this question?

RKO

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As usual, I should state that this question comes from my own processing. It is NOT intended to annoy or inflame.
One thing that I struggle with is this very basic issue: there are thousands of religious groups who think they have it right. Some go so far as to suggest everyone else has it wrong and could be punished by God for not getting it right. Virtually every group of humans has had some idea of a godhead. It sometimes seems to me that either god allows people to acknowledge him as they will, or this is all simply a reaction to the horror of a permanent death. Again, zero offense intended. Rather, I am asking for your help in figuring this out. Thank you all for being so kind and patient with me!
 

RKO

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I guess the better way to ask this is: how can one group of people at a point in time be right and every other group in all other times be wrong? It almost seems cruel for god to reveal himself to that small fragment of humanity. I don't buy the argument that god allowed the human race to develop to a point until they were ready for him. Has the past 2000 years shown that humanity is more ready now than it was before?
 
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ArmyMatt

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well, we don't think He punishes folks for not believing if the can't. the NT says that Christ preached to those who died in the Flood. well, if He offers them a second chance, He certainly calls out to everyone else. for us, we don't judge those outside the Church, because in Romans St Paul says that God judges them based on the law written on their hearts.

as far as why God has chosen to reveal Himself the way He did, I dunno. but I know that it is for the salvation of everyone that He did.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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well, we don't think He punishes folks for not believing if the can't. the NT says that Christ preached to those who died in the Flood. well, if He offers them a second chance, He certainly calls out to everyone else.

Even Jews Matt? ;)

In Orthodoxy, we say we know where the church IS, we do not know where it ISN'T...
 
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Dewi Sant

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P.S. I have noted there are quite a few newcomers to TAW that are using the three-bar faith icon, but are not likely Orthodox. I would ask that they change their icon until or unless they are actually made a catechumen of the Church, both out of respect but also so as not to cause confusion among inquirers.

I agree. Though there is always an element of trust in an online arena.


------------

I believe that we as Christians are essential for being the bearers of the Gospel in our lives and actions, and in so doing, being the light which is placed on a stand; the city on the hill.

For those who never knew the faith of the God of Israel, I believe that God is the true judge of hearts and is a wholly compassionate and loving God.

There are some very wise posts in this thread.
Just my tuppence.
4515418265_f00e6e10f7_s.jpg
 
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Dewi Sant

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The confusion could have been prevented if the newbie had identified themself as what they are, a seeker/ inquirer into the Orthodox faith instead of sporting the tri-bar cross, thus giving the impression they have already been chrismated.

I do not know the feasibility, but perhaps a grey (or other distinguishable colour) tri-barred cross could be proposed for Catechumens.
 
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rusmeister

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Agreed. It decreases any chance of confusion to other inquirers who come into TAW asking questions. I'll go one further though. I don't like those, who are not at bare minimum a catechumen, actually answering questions of what Eastern Orthodox believe to other inquirers questions while sporting the Orthodox tri-bar icon. It isn't that they can't get the answer right but I have seen some of them get is so very wrong and confusion having occurred before it was corrected. The confusion could have been prevented if the newbie had identified themself as what they are, a seeker/ inquirer into the Orthodox faith instead of sporting the tri-bar cross, thus giving the impression they have already been chrismated.

I agree, too. I've been feeling a fair amount of non-Orthodoxy passing as Orthodoxy here lately. Even just a couple of years ago, there were personality clashes, but a more solid sense of, for the most part, one heart and one mind. But now that sense is seriously weakened. Some people have jumped ship altogether.
In the threads on the H word, for example, there is a sense of confusion and disagreement now that never existed before.
For me, TAW was always a place I could come for peace, to not have to argue about what Orthodox teaching is, to be able to assume (rightly, on the whole) that we all share the same beliefs, especially on issues that are controversial in the world outside. Lately I have had a lot less of that sense of peace and certainty here. It may be that abuse of the faith icon is a contributing factor. I DO say that everyone who uses it needs to be able, on request, to state his or her jurisdiction and Bishop.

To RKO:
It might help to understand that people can be right in degrees; that most people do have a great deal of truth in their worldviews. A claim to the fullness of the truth, being completely right in terms of worldview, is not due to personal arrogance, but to having the dumb luck to find the organization that really HAS maintained the paradosis most completely. It's in thinking, not that WE are right, but that the CHURCH is right, and we are only accepting or discovering truth we did not make. I see the analogy of a dartboard. Orthodoxy is the bullseye. Heterodox Christian faith is in the near circles, other theistic faiths a little further out, polytheistic still further, atheism in the circle around the nail holding the dartboard up (there IS truth and it CAN be known) and principled agnostics that deny we can ever know, that there is even truth to be known, are totally off the board.

So I can enjoy the company of Catholics or Protestants, knowing that they have an awful lot right, even though I can't join them, as I can see that they have not maintained the paradosis. (History is a huge basis for me here.)
 
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Tallguy88

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gracefullamb said:
Agreed. It decreases any chance of confusion to other inquirers who come into TAW asking questions. I'll go one further though. I don't like those, who are not at bare minimum a catechumen, actually answering questions of what Eastern Orthodox believe to other inquirers questions while sporting the Orthodox tri-bar icon. It isn't that they can't get the answer right but I have seen some of them get is so very wrong and confusion having occurred before it was corrected. The confusion could have been prevented if the newbie had identified themself as what they are, a seeker/ inquirer into the Orthodox faith instead of sporting the tri-bar cross, thus giving the impression they have already been chrismated.

I shall use a different icon then.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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With all due respect YH, are you actually a baptised, chrismated and communing member of a canonical Eastern Orthodox communion? Based on your statements in many other threads I have severe doubts that you are a practicing Orthodox in good standing. If you are not EOC, please have respect and change your faith icon and stop representing yourself on this board as EOC. If you are EOC, which jurisdiction are you under?

In Christ,
Patrick

P.S. I have noted there are quite a few newcomers to TAW that are using the three-bar faith icon, but are not likely Orthodox. I would ask that they change their icon until or unless they are actually made a catechumen of the Church, both out of respect but also so as not to cause confusion among inquirers.

Are you a convert?
 
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rusmeister

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Are you a convert?

Convert or cradle is irrelevant. What matters is one's connection to the canonical Church.
I am in the Moscow Patriarchate of the Russian Orthodox Church, under Metropolitan Juvenal (Yuvenaly), under Patriarch Kirill. I was received by Chrismation into the OCA, Diocese of the West, San Francisco.

How about you?
 
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rusmeister

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I shall use a different icon then.

No offense, Tallguy - we LIKE inquirers and catechumens! But as you can see, a real problem can arise of people who aren't actually part of e canonical Church giving the impression that they ARE.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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Convert or cradle is irrelevant. What matters is one's connection to the canonical Church.
I am in the Moscow Patriarchate of the Russian Orthodox Church, under Metropolitan Juvenal (Yuvenaly), under Patriarch Kirill. I was received by Chrismation into the OCA, Diocese of the West, San Francisco.

How about you?

Yes, that is what converts usually say. He is questioning MY Orthodoxy so my question is valid.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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No offense, Tallguy - we LIKE inquirers and catechumens! But as you can see, a real problem can arise of people who aren't actually part of e canonical Church giving the impression that they ARE.

Or recent converts questioning cradle Orthodox if they are Orthodox at all...
 
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Would you mind elaborating, Rus? When I come into TAW, the only adamant disagreement, angst, and venom I see occur is mostly with regard to the Aerial Toll Houses and things attached to Father Seraphim Rose. On most other topics, people seem extraordinarily united in here, which is refreshing. Perhaps you're referring to disagreement about the Cub Scouts? I'm probably wrong in assuming that because such a paltry issue wouldn't be a substantive disagreement, but a minor one imho.

As far as abuse of the faith icon, could you elaborate, Rus?

I agree, too. I've been feeling a fair amount of non-Orthodoxy passing as Orthodoxy here lately. Even just a couple of years ago, there were personality clashes, but a more solid sense of, for the most part, one heart and one mind. But now that sense is seriously weakened. Some people have jumped ship altogether.
In the threads on the H word, for example, there is a sense of confusion and disagreement now that never existed before.
For me, TAW was always a place I could come for peace, to not have to argue about what Orthodox teaching is, to be able to assume (rightly, on the whole) that we all share the same beliefs, especially on issues that are controversial in the world outside. Lately I have had a lot less of that sense of peace and certainty here. It may be that abuse of the faith icon is a contributing factor. I DO say that everyone who uses it needs to be able, on request, to state his or her jurisdiction and Bishop.
 
Upvote 0