How Does Salvation WORK

5thKingdom · Jun 10, 2020

d taylor said:
1 John 2;2
And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

---------

(1) You said:
However, the Bible is very clear that the sinner PAYS for every idle word (even for sinful thoughts).
You said above, are you referencing Matthew 12:36 if so, that verse states gives an account, i do not see where it says they will pay.

Please feel free to look at the CONTEXT of the passage.
Please NOTICE the word "condemned".

There is now NO condemnation for the saints [Rom 8]...
But for the unsaved "tares" and those OUTSIDE the church
they are "condemned" by every idle word...
and even their sinful thoughts.

Mat 12:36-37
But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak,
they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. For by
thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words
thou shalt be condemned.

(2) You said

I stated every sin, the Bible never says every sin but one,
The Bible says that Jesus paid for the sin of the world, meaning all sin.

2 Corinthians 5:19
that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

Remember that the Bible groups all men into three (3) groups:
(1) The saved "wheat/sheep" in the church (sown by God)
(2) The unsaved "tares/goats" in the church (sown by Satan)
(3) The lost souls OUTSIDE the church (also children of Satan)
like Moslims, Buddhists, Hindus, Atheists, Agnostics, Humanists,
Pagans, Satanists, etc.

So you have to discern the CONTEXT of every passage
before you can understand the MEANING of the passage.
And the CONTEXT of every verse will be either
(#1) or (#2) or (#3)

So let's look at CONTEXT

(a) The CONTEXT of that passage in 2Co is ONLY the saints.
It does NOT include the unsaved "tares" sown by Satan
or those OUTSIDE of the church:

2Co 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, unto the church of God which is at Corinth,
with all the saints which are in all Achaia:

(b) The CONTEXT of the passage is ONLY the saints.
It does NOT include the unsaved "tares" sown by Satan
or those OUTSIDE of the church.

2Co 5:14-19
For the love of Christ constraineth us [the saints];
because we [the saints] thus judge, that if one died
for all [the saints], then were all [the saints] dead:
And that he died for all [the saints], that they [saints]
which live should not henceforth live unto themselves,
but unto him which died for them [the saints], and rose again.
Wherefore henceforth know we [the saints] no man after the
flesh: yea, though we [the saints] have known Christ after
the flesh, yet now henceforth know we [the saints] him no more.
Therefore if any man be in Christ [the saints], he is a new
creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become
new. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us [the saints]
to himself by Jesus Christ, hath given to us [the saints] the
ministry of reconciliation; To wit, that God was in Christ,
reconciling the world [both Jew and Gentile] unto himself,
not imputing their [Jew and Gentile] trespasses unto
them [both Jew and Gentile]; and hath committed unto
us [the saints] the word of reconciliation.

So, not only does Paul TELL US the CONTEXT of the letter
in the first sentence (the church of God) but then he uses
the word "us" and "we" to identify the SAME CONTEXT.

You cannot hope to understand the MEANING of a passage
when you have not discerned the CONTEXT of the passage.

BTW... you can TEST this by trying to put the word "unsaved"
or "world" everywhere that Paul says "us" and "we".
It PROVES the context I showed you above.

(3) You said:

1 John 2;2
And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only
but also for the whole world.

Again, the CONTEXT of the passage is ONLY the saints.
It does NOT include the unsaved "tares" sown by Satan
or those OUTSIDE of the church.

1Jn 2:1-5
My little children [the saints], these things write I unto
you [the saints], that ye [the saints] sin not. And if any
man [saint] sin, we [saints] have an advocate with the
Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation
for our [the saints] sins: and not for ours [the Jews] only,
but also for the sins of the whole world [the Gentiles also].
And hereby we [the saints] do know that we [the saints]
know him, if we [the saints] keep his commandments.
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments,
is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoso keepeth his word,
in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we [saints]
that we [saints] are in him.

You cannot hope to understand the MEANING of a passage
when you have not discerned the CONTEXT of the passage.

BTW... you can TEST this by trying to put the word "unsaved"
or "world" everywhere the text says "we". Once again this
PROVES the context I showed you above.

(4) Finally... do you not realize you are preaching "another" gospel
than preached by Jesus and the Apostles? They NEVER taught
that the sinners must PAY for the single sin of NOT "accepting"
Jesus. That is simply heresy. They taught the wages of sin
is DEATH (not physical death)... the SECOND DEATH in the
Lake of Fire.

So according to your NEW gospel... all unsaved men pay
for the SAME SIN of not "accepting" Jesus. And all their
own personal sins are meaningless.

But what about the "stripes"?

Luk 12:47-48
And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
[this would apply to all the unsaved "tares" in the church]
But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes,
shall be beaten with few stripes. [those not hearing the Gospel]
For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required:
and to whom men have committed much, [false teachers]
of him they will ask the more.

Gee... that does not sound like every unsaved person is only
PAYING for the single sin of not "accepting" Jesus. This verse
clearly contradicts your NEW gospel.

Moreover... you have another problem.
The Bible is clear that not all men CAN "accept" Christ.

Romans 9 tells us God HATES some men before they are born
(they cannot "accept" Christ)

God says some men are CREATED to be "vessels of mercy"
(they are elect) while other men are CREATED to be only
"vessels of destruction" (they cannot "accept" Christ)

God says that He HARDENS the hearts of some men to
oppose Him. (They cannot "accept" Jesus, they are hardened)

The Bible says that God is the POTTER and HE ALONE decides,
out of the same lump of clay, to create some men to be
"vessels of honor" (they are elect) and other men to be
"vessels of dishonor" (they cannot "accept" Christ)

So you have several PROBLEMS

(1) You cannot discern the CONTEXT of a passage because
you forget that all men are in three (3) groups.
(a) the saved "wheat" in the church sown by God
(b) the unsaved "tares" in the church sown by Satan
(c) the lost souls OUTSIDE the church (also children of Satan)
like Moslims, Buddhists, Hindus, Atheists, Agnostics, Humanists,
Pagans, Satanists, etc.

(2) You do not understand the CONTEXT of "the world"
often means BOTH JEW AND GENTILE... and not everyone
ever born. Remember, before Jesus came God was ONLY
saving the Jew. After Christ came God was saving BOTH
the Jew and Gentile ("the world"). This was an important
(very important) aspect of the True Gospel.

(3) You do not understand that God CREATES some men
who cannot "accept" Jesus. So they have no "sin" to PAY.
But (obviously) they are not with the saints and God...
so WHERE are these people? In Purgatory? Where?

(4) You do not understand that men PAY for EVERY SIN
they commit (every idle word and even sinful thoughts)
Some are beaten with MANY stripes because of their sin
and some are beaten with LESS stripes because they
were ignorant.

Jas 1:15
Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin:
and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
[not physical death... but the Second Death]

I know my warning will fall on deaf ears...
but you MUST stop teaching that all sins are PAID
and the ONLY sin men PAY in the Lake of Fire is
that they did not "accept" Jesus.

Billions of people have lived and died and NEVER
heard of Jesus... how could they "accept" what
they never heard?

Gal 1:8-9
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel
unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach
any other gospel unto you than that ye have received,
let him be accursed.

----

5thKingdom · Jun 10, 2020

d taylor said:
In Genesis when Adam sinned, God chose blood as the method to bring man back in line with God. God could have chose, i guess, anything but God chose blood.

So to pay that price of blood God had to take on a human body so He could pay the blood price. And since God can not die the only way to pay the blood price was for God to become human and die.

Notice that blood sacrifice of Jesus took away the sin of the world. So when unbelievers die in their unbelief and are judged at the Great White throne.

It is not their sin (because Jesus paid the sin price at the cross) that condemns them to the lake of fire but their lack of having accepted the free gift of Gods Eternal Life. By trusting in The Messiah for the free gift of Eternal Life.

----------

You said:

It is not their sin (because Jesus paid the sin price at the cross) that condemns them to the lake of fire but their lack of having accepted the free gift of Gods Eternal Life. By trusting in The Messiah for the free gift of Eternal Life.

So what about the BILLIONS of people who lived and died
and NEVER heard about Jesus? They have no sin?
WHERE do these people go?

What does your NEW gospel teach about people who
NEVER had a chance to "accept" Jesus?

That would include EVERYBODY in the Pre-Flood Kingdom.
Does that mean that Adam and Enoch and Noah are lost?
They never "accepted" Jesus.

What about everyone in the Jewish Kingdom?
Are Abraham and Isaac and Jacob destined for the Lake?
They never "accepted" Jesus.

How can you NOT see the fatal flaw in your NEW gospel?
All because you do not understand the CONTEXT of the
word "world" often means both Jew and Gentile?

But that was one of the most basic and essential elements
of the Christian Gospel... how did you overlook that fact?

.........

d taylor · Jun 10, 2020

5thKingdom said:
---------

(1) You said:
However, the Bible is very clear that the sinner PAYS for every idle word (even for sinful thoughts).
You said above, are you referencing Matthew 12:36 if so, that verse states gives an account, i do not see where it says they will pay.

Please feel free to look at the CONTEXT of the passage.
Please NOTICE the word "condemned".

There is now NO condemnation for the saints [Rom 8]...
But for the unsaved "tares" and those OUTSIDE the church
they are "condemned" by every idle word...
and even their sinful thoughts.

Mat 12:36-37
But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak,
they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. For by
thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words
thou shalt be condemned.

(2) You said

I stated every sin, the Bible never says every sin but one,
The Bible says that Jesus paid for the sin of the world, meaning all sin.

2 Corinthians 5:19
that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

Remember that the Bible groups all men into three (3) groups:
(1) The saved "wheat/sheep" in the church (sown by God)
(2) The unsaved "tares/goats" in the church (sown by Satan)
(3) The lost souls OUTSIDE the church (also children of Satan)
like Moslims, Buddhists, Hindus, Atheists, Agnostics, Humanists,
Pagans, Satanists, etc.

So you have to discern the CONTEXT of every passage
before you can understand the MEANING of the passage.
And the CONTEXT of every verse will be either
(#1) or (#2) or (#3)

So let's look at CONTEXT

(a) The CONTEXT of that passage in 2Co is ONLY the saints.
It does NOT include the unsaved "tares" sown by Satan
or those OUTSIDE of the church:

2Co 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, unto the church of God which is at Corinth,
with all the saints which are in all Achaia:

(b) The CONTEXT of the passage is ONLY the saints.
It does NOT include the unsaved "tares" sown by Satan
or those OUTSIDE of the church.

2Co 5:14-19
For the love of Christ constraineth us [the saints];
because we [the saints] thus judge, that if one died
for all [the saints], then were all [the saints] dead:
And that he died for all [the saints], that they [saints]
which live should not henceforth live unto themselves,
but unto him which died for them [the saints], and rose again.
Wherefore henceforth know we [the saints] no man after the
flesh: yea, though we [the saints] have known Christ after
the flesh, yet now henceforth know we [the saints] him no more.
Therefore if any man be in Christ [the saints], he is a new
creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become
new. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us [the saints]
to himself by Jesus Christ, hath given to us [the saints] the
ministry of reconciliation; To wit, that God was in Christ,
reconciling the world [both Jew and Gentile] unto himself,
not imputing their [Jew and Gentile] trespasses unto
them [both Jew and Gentile]; and hath committed unto
us [the saints] the word of reconciliation.

So, not only does Paul TELL US the CONTEXT of the letter
in the first sentence (the church of God) but then he uses
the word "us" and "we" to identify the SAME CONTEXT.

You cannot hope to understand the MEANING of a passage
when you have not discerned the CONTEXT of the passage.

BTW... you can TEST this by trying to put the word "unsaved"
or "world" everywhere that Paul says "us" and "we".
It PROVES the context I showed you above.

(3) You said:

1 John 2;2
And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only
but also for the whole world.

Again, the CONTEXT of the passage is ONLY the saints.
It does NOT include the unsaved "tares" sown by Satan
or those OUTSIDE of the church.

1Jn 2:1-5
My little children [the saints], these things write I unto
you [the saints], that ye [the saints] sin not. And if any
man [saint] sin, we [saints] have an advocate with the
Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation
for our [the saints] sins: and not for ours [the Jews] only,
but also for the sins of the whole world [the Gentiles also].
And hereby we [the saints] do know that we [the saints]
know him, if we [the saints] keep his commandments.
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments,
is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoso keepeth his word,
in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we [saints]
that we [saints] are in him.

You cannot hope to understand the MEANING of a passage
when you have not discerned the CONTEXT of the passage.

BTW... you can TEST this by trying to put the word "unsaved"
or "world" everywhere the text says "we". Once again this
PROVES the context I showed you above.

(4) Finally... do you not realize you are preaching "another" gospel
than preached by Jesus and the Apostles? They NEVER taught
that the sinners must PAY for the single sin of NOT "accepting"
Jesus. That is simply heresy. They taught the wages of sin
is DEATH (not physical death)... the SECOND DEATH in the
Lake of Fire.

So according to your NEW gospel... all unsaved men pay
for the SAME SIN of not "accepting" Jesus. And all their
own personal sins are meaningless.

But what about the "stripes"?

Luk 12:47-48
And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
[this would apply to all the unsaved "tares" in the church]
But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes,
shall be beaten with few stripes. [those not hearing the Gospel]
For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required:
and to whom men have committed much, [false teachers]
of him they will ask the more.

Gee... that does not sound like every unsaved person is only
PAYING for the single sin of not "accepting" Jesus. This verse
clearly contradicts your NEW gospel.

Moreover... you have another problem.
The Bible is clear that not all men CAN "accept" Christ.

Romans 9 tells us God HATES some men before they are born
(they cannot "accept" Christ)

God says some men are CREATED to be "vessels of mercy"
(they are elect) while other men are CREATED to be only
"vessels of destruction" (they cannot "accept" Christ)

God says that He HARDENS the hearts of some men to
oppose Him. (They cannot "accept" Jesus, they are hardened)

The Bible says that God is the POTTER and HE ALONE decides,
out of the same lump of clay, to create some men to be
"vessels of honor" (they are elect) and other men to be
"vessels of dishonor" (they cannot "accept" Christ)

So you have several PROBLEMS

(1) You cannot discern the CONTEXT of a passage because
you forget that all men are in three (3) groups.
(a) the saved "wheat" in the church sown by God
(b) the unsaved "tares" in the church sown by Satan
(c) the lost souls OUTSIDE the church (also children of Satan)
like Moslims, Buddhists, Hindus, Atheists, Agnostics, Humanists,
Pagans, Satanists, etc.

(2) You do not understand the CONTEXT of "the world"
often means BOTH JEW AND GENTILE... and not everyone
ever born. Remember, before Jesus came God was ONLY
saving the Jew. After Christ came God was saving BOTH
the Jew and Gentile ("the world"). This was an important
(very important) aspect of the True Gospel.

(3) You do not understand that God CREATES some men
who cannot "accept" Jesus. So they have no "sin" to PAY.
But (obviously) they are not with the saints and God...
so WHERE are these people? In Purgatory? Where?

(4) You do not understand that men PAY for EVERY SIN
they commit (every idle word and even sinful thoughts)
Some are beaten with MANY stripes because of their sin
and some are beaten with LESS stripes because they
were ignorant.

Jas 1:15
Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin:
and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
[not physical death... but the Second Death]

I know my warning will fall on deaf ears...
but you MUST stop teaching that all sins are PAID
and the ONLY sin men PAY in the Lake of Fire is
that they did not "accept" Jesus.

Billions of people have lived and died and NEVER
heard of Jesus... how could they "accept" what
they never heard?

Gal 1:8-9
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel
unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach
any other gospel unto you than that ye have received,
let him be accursed.

----

You can try your approach and make the Bible match your theology. But the Bible is simple and straight forward. Read it again The world

that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself

I can only guess you must be a sad calvinist.

Read my words one more time a person goes to the lake of fire because they do not have Gods free gift of Eternal Life. Again i have never said they go to the lake of fire because of the sin of not accepting Christ. Read again they are not in the lake of fire because of sin period. Stop saying i am saying something i am not saying.

The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!

Who takes away the sin of the world.

d taylor · Jun 10, 2020

5thKingdom said:
----------

You said:

It is not their sin (because Jesus paid the sin price at the cross) that condemns them to the lake of fire but their lack of having accepted the free gift of Gods Eternal Life. By trusting in The Messiah for the free gift of Eternal Life.

So what about the BILLIONS of people who lived and died
and NEVER heard about Jesus? They have no sin?
WHERE do these people go?

What does your NEW gospel teach about people who
NEVER had a chance to "accept" Jesus?

That would include EVERYBODY in the Pre-Flood Kingdom.
Does that mean that Adam and Enoch and Noah are lost?
They never "accepted" Jesus.

What about everyone in the Jewish Kingdom?
Are Abraham and Isaac and Jacob destined for the Lake?
They never "accepted" Jesus.

How can you NOT see the fatal flaw in your NEW gospel?
All because you do not understand the CONTEXT of the
word "world" often means both Jew and Gentile?

But that was one of the most basic and essential elements
of the Christian Gospel... how did you overlook that fact?

.........

What i teach gives a person Eternal Life, is straight from the Gospel of John.
You want to lie and say i am teaching a new gospel go ahead then you will have to say that the Gospel of John is a new Gospel.

So say that.

5thKingdom · Jun 10, 2020

d taylor said:
You can try your approach and make the Bible match your theology. But the Bible is simple and straight forward. Read it again The world

that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself

I can only guess you must be a sad calvinist.

Read my words one more time a person goes to the lake of fire because they do not have Gods free gift of Eternal Life. Again i have never said they go to the lake of fire because of the sin of not accepting Christ. Read again they are not in the lake of fire because of sin period. Stop saying i am saying something i am not saying.

The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!

Who takes away the sin of the world.

-----------

You said:

You can try your approach and make the Bible match your theology. But the Bible is simple and straight forward. Read it again The world

that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself

When God STOPPED saving only the Jews
and He BEGAN to save BOTH Jew and Gentile...
who ELSE is in the "world" beside Jew and Gentile?
This is NOT hard.

Have you EVER read a verse that says men ONLY PAY
for the sin of not "accepting" Jesus

And "God's free gift of Eternal Life" is the SAME as Jesus.
Jesus is the "Door".

And I notice you don't want to talk about all the BILLIONS
of people who lived and died without ever hearing of Jesus...
your silence is deafening.

----------

d taylor · Jun 10, 2020

5thKingdom said:
----------

What about everyone in the Jewish Kingdom?
Are Abraham and Isaac and Jacob destined for the Lake?
They never "accepted" Jesus.

.........

What are you some one who has never read the Bible.

Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.”

Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

5thKingdom · Jun 10, 2020

d taylor said:
What i teach gives a person Eternal Life, is straight from the Gospel of John.
You want to lie and say i am teaching a new gospel go ahead then you will have to say that the Gospel of John is a new Gospel.

So say that.

Please... you are pretending.
The Gospel of John NEVER says the only sin men pay
is the ONE SIN of not accepting Jesus.

Why is it so hard for you to understand that
Jew + Gentile = "the world"

AND that was an entirely NEW CONCEPT because
God was only saving Jews.

What was one of the most BASIC and ESSENTIAL elements
of the Gospel is LOST to you. You cannot accept the reality
that Jew + Gentile was a NEW element and a BIG DEAL.
For the first time in history God was saving "the world"...
both the Jew and the Gentile.

Again I ask you....
Who lives in the "world" besides Jew and Gentile?
Is this too difficult to answer?

And WHERE are the BILLIONS of people who lived and died
without ever hearing the Gospel?
Too difficult to answer?

d taylor · Jun 10, 2020

5thKingdom said:
-----------

You said:

You can try your approach and make the Bible match your theology. But the Bible is simple and straight forward. Read it again The world

that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself

When God STOPPED saving only the Jews
and He BEGAN to save BOTH Jew and Gentile...
who ELSE is in the "world" beside Jew and Gentile?
This is NOT hard.

Have you EVER read a verse that says men ONLY PAY
for the sin of not "accepting" Jesus

And "God's free gift of Eternal Life" is the SAME as Jesus.
Jesus is the "Door".

And I notice you don't want to talk about all the BILLIONS
of people who lived and died without ever hearing of Jesus...
your silence is deafening.

----------

I am clear seems like you are slow at reading and comprehending. I will say it one more time.

If a person has not trusted in The Messiah for Eternal Life and they die with out receiving Gods free gift of Eternal Life they will be at the great white throne judgment.

d taylor · Jun 10, 2020

5thKingdom said:
Please... you are pretending.
The Gospel of John NEVER says the only sin men pay
is the ONE SIN of not accepting Jesus.

Why is it so hard for you to understand that
Jew + Gentile = "the world"

AND that was an entirely NEW CONCEPT because
God was only saving Jews.

What was one of the most BASIC and ESSENTIAL elements
of the Gospel is LOST to you. You cannot accept the reality
that Jew + Gentile was a NEW element and a BIG DEAL.
For the first time in history God was saving "the world"...
both the Jew and the Gentile.

Again I ask you....
Who lives in the "world" besides Jew and Gentile?
Is this too difficult to answer?

And WHERE are the BILLIONS of people who lived and died
without ever hearing the Gospel?
Too difficult to answer?

Go back to you false teachings obviously you are some child playing on a computer.

5thKingdom · Jun 10, 2020

d taylor said:
You can try your approach and make the Bible match your theology. But the Bible is simple and straight forward. Read it again The world

that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself

I can only guess you must be a sad calvinist.

Read my words one more time a person goes to the lake of fire because they do not have Gods free gift of Eternal Life. Again i have never said they go to the lake of fire because of the sin of not accepting Christ. Read again they are not in the lake of fire because of sin period. Stop saying i am saying something i am not saying.

The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!

Who takes away the sin of the world.

---------

The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!

Yes, He takes away the sins of Both Jew and Gentile...
that was NOT the case in the Jewish Kingdom
that was NEW... that was HUGE.

And yet... you cannot accept the reality because
it immediately destroys your gospel.
How sad.

.

JIMINZ · Jun 10, 2020

5thKingdom said:
AND that was an entirely NEW CONCEPT because
God was only saving Jews.

Where is that written?

5thKingdom · Jun 10, 2020

d taylor said:
What are you some one who has never read the Bible.

Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.”

Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

-----------

Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

But the ISSUE being discussed is whether people go into the Lake
for the ONE SIN of not accepting Jesus and NOT to PAY for their
own personal sins.

Are you also someone who believes men do NOT PAY for their sins?
Have YOU never read the Bible?

.

5thKingdom · Jun 11, 2020

JIMINZ said:
Where is that written?

In the OT.
How many Gentiles were saved BEFORE Jesus?
Are you trying to be cute? Is this "news" to you.

Do you not realize that salvation of Jew + Gentile ("the world")
was a BASIC and ESSENTIAL element of the Christian Gospel?
Is this "news" to you?

....

5thKingdom · Jun 11, 2020

d taylor said:
Go back to you false teachings obviously you are some child playing on a computer.

------

Your comment could not have been more childish.
I am embarrassed for you.

.

JIMINZ · Jun 11, 2020

5thKingdom said:
In the OT.
How many Gentiles were saved BEFORE Jesus?
Are you trying to be cute? Is this "news" to you.

Do you not realize that salvation of Jew + Gentile ("the world")
was a BASIC and ESSENTIAL element of the Christian Gospel?
Is this "news" to you?

....

Don't even start.

I am asking you a civil question and I expect a CIVIL answer, Give me the verse or verses where it says,
"God was only saving Jews."

5thKingdom · Jun 11, 2020

d taylor said:
I am clear seems like you are slow at reading and comprehending. I will say it one more time.

If a person has not trusted in The Messiah for Eternal Life and they die with out receiving Gods free gift of Eternal Life they will be at the great white throne judgment.

------------

Do you REALLY pretend that changing the name "Jesus"
to "the Messiah" changes anything?

You are teaching a false gospel that the ONLY SIN men PAY
is the one sin of not "accepting" Jesus. You can twist that
any way you want (use "Messiah" instead of "Jesus")
but the result is the same.

WHY are you running from your gospel?
Stand PROUD. Scream from the rooftops that
men do NOT pay for their sins... eat, drink be happy.
Because the ONLY sin you pay is not accepting Jesus.

-------

coffee4u · Jun 11, 2020

Christian Jacocks said:
I grew up in church, and I understand that His death and the resurrection are essential to salvation, but I have been asked before and have even asked myself the same question.

"HOW does it WORK, though."

Why is it that the death fo Jesus on the cross and His subsequent resurrection is enough to atone for not only MY sins but EVERYONE ELSES?

Edit:
Perhaps a deeper explanation of my question is needed. Logically speaking, how does it work. Some of you have quoted scripture stating that it works, but I am not asking to be told THAT it works, but HOW it works. WHY was His death and resurrection enough?

Adam brought sin into this world, the sinful nature. A small child doesn't have to be taught how to be naughty, they will be, it comes from inside. It's our selfish nature. The fall of Adam in Genesis can be seen as a type or shadow of Christ's temptation in the desert.

Adam>temptation> falure>death for all
Christ>temptation>sucess>life for all

This is why the New Testament says Jesus is the second Adam.
Because one man brought in death, one man, one perfect man had to 'take it out'. Inverted commas because it's not finished and we are not finished because obviously we still sin. It won't be complete until the New heavens and New World are here. A perfect remake of the garden of Eden in a sense. The first garden was also a type or shadow of what was to come.

It took the blood of a perfect man to correct what the first man did. There is something special about blood, which is also why the Bible says not to eat it. Leviticus 17:11 It is the blood that makes atonement for one's life. Why? We will have to ask God that. It's enough to know he deemed it so.

5thKingdom · Jun 11, 2020

JIMINZ said:
Don't even start.

I am asking you a civil question and I expect a CIVIL answer, Give me the verse or verses where it says,
"God was only saving Jews."

------------

I gave you a "civil answer" I said that BEFORE Jesus came
God was only saving Jews (only a few exceptions) but AFTER
Jesus came God was saving both Jew + Gentile = "the world".

What AMAZES me is that this was such a HUGE NEW DEVELOPMENT
for the Christians to preach... and you think nothing of it.

JIMINZ · Jun 11, 2020

5thKingdom said:
------------

I gave you a "civil answer" I said that BEFORE Jesus came
God was only saving Jews (only a few exceptions) but AFTER
Jesus came God was saving both Jew + Gentile = "the world".

What AMAZES me is that this was such a HUGE NEW DEVELOPMENT
for the Christians to preach... and you think nothing of it.

I"m asking you for scripture where it explicitly says.

"God was only saving Jews BEFORE Jesus came"

That is all I need from you, Chapter and verse, simple right?

Your saying in the Old Testament, doesn't quite cut it, or pin it down.

5thKingdom · Jun 11, 2020

d taylor said:
You can try your approach and make the Bible match your theology. But the Bible is simple and straight forward. Read it again The world

that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself

I can only guess you must be a sad calvinist.

Read my words one more time a person goes to the lake of fire because they do not have Gods free gift of Eternal Life. Again i have never said they go to the lake of fire because of the sin of not accepting Christ. Read again they are not in the lake of fire because of sin period. Stop saying i am saying something i am not saying.

The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!

Who takes away the sin of the world.

--------

You said:

Read my words one more time a person goes to the lake of fire because they do not have Gods free gift of Eternal Life. Again i have never said they go to the lake of fire because of the sin of not accepting Christ

------

That is called "doublespeak". JESUS is the "door".
You are saying the ONE SIN is not accepting Jesus.
But (because that embarrasses you) you doublespeak
about "God's free gift of eternal life"... while you PRETEND
that "free gift" is ONLY through Jesus.

You are EMBARRASSED to say Jesus.
You are EMBARRASSED to say the one sin is not
"accepting" Jesus. Wow.

---------------

How Does Salvation WORK

Newbie

Newbie

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Newbie

Well-Known Member

Newbie

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Newbie

Well-Known Member

Newbie

Newbie

Newbie

Well-Known Member

Newbie

Well-Known Member

Newbie

Well-Known Member

Newbie

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency