How does resurrection work?

[Stinker]

Now we've got problems. It just raises further questions about what you mean by "spark of conciousness". If by "conciousness" you mean awareness or even self-awareness, then we are not separated from the animals, some of which have been shown to be self-aware.

Furthermore, if someone is rendered "unconscious" (by, for example, anaesthesia) or is in a coma, or in a vegetative state, etc. , what happens to their soul?

Or maybe it's because we're the species with the largest brain to body mass ratio.

'Aware' 'Self-Aware'

Well, we know that humans are the only species that is 'aware' even at a very early age, that we are going to die.

 

[ScMay]

'Aware' 'Self-Aware'

Well, we know that humans are the only species that is 'aware' even at a very early age, that we are going to die.

Source? How do you know that an animal is unable to tell it is going to die anyway ,since its rather hard to ask. Plus at what stage does a human generally gain this insight (and how much of this is due to education rather than our nature) - its not in very early childhood I believe since death requires some abstract thinking that is beyond them, in my experience very young children don't really comprehend that death means you are gone and can't comeback (they trip up at the concept of non-existence and/or irreversibility of the state). They understand danger, pain, etc which makes them avoid deadly scenarios, besides what about people who NEVER understand it (those which cognitive difficulties) does this mean they have no soul?

This is one of the biggest holes religions have, the soul is always poorly defined. What does it do? What does it take away when you die (memories, personality, emotions? If not those then how is it any sense recognizable as me anyway?)

 

[MorkandMindy]

The soul is the spark of consciousness that separates us from the animals. It isn't coincidence that we're the only species to come so far in technological gains, and whatnot. That's my take on the soul. It's not just emotions, which can be governed by hormones and the mind as well as by conscious choice.

A well thought through reply, but now take that back to the start point of the Christian walk:

"Come to Jesus and have the certainty that your spark of consiousness will be safe in Heaven with him after you die."

"Your body will age and die then rot or burn, but the spark of consiousness will be saved."

 

[Hypersonic]

The soul is the spark of consciousness that separates us from the animals. It isn't coincidence that we're the only species to come so far in technological gains, and whatnot. That's my take on the soul. It's not just emotions, which can be governed by hormones and the mind as well as by conscious choice.

How does saving the spark of consciousness work?

 

[NavyGuy7]

Now we've got problems. It just raises further questions about what you mean by "spark of conciousness". If by "conciousness" you mean awareness or even self-awareness, then we are not separated from the animals, some of which have been shown to be self-aware.

Furthermore, if someone is rendered "unconscious" (by, for example, anaesthesia) or is in a coma, or in a vegetative state, etc. , what happens to their soul?

Awareness, even self-awareness, is merely another function of the mind. So of course, if you argue from that point, you're going to lose because many animals are self-aware, and whatnot. But I do not mean awareness or even self-awareness, thank goodness. The soul is a complicated issue, methinks. So yes, I'm not going to have all the answers; all i can do is offer an opinion based on knowledge and what I believe is true. I merely used the word "consciousness" because it is the thing that comes closest to a word I don't think I have, if it exists, for describing our soul. I just find it odd that humans are the only mammal to be so advanced. We have something extra, I'm sure of it. And I believe it is the soul that contributes to this.

Or maybe it's because we're the species with the largest brain to body mass ratio.

Don't you know that bigger isn't always better? You could have the largest brain in the world, and still be dumb as a rock. The brain in taht case would most likely be very smooth. While size may play a factor, it's also all those wrinkles and cracks in the mind that aid in our intelligence, right? Size does not equal intelligence.

Not to mention, don't chimps or something share 98% of our genes? Why aren't they as advanced as us, then? They have the same analytical capabilities as us, or very close to it. They can solve complicated problems that some humans couldn't do. Why are they not like us? Why haven't they thought their way into a new age?
It is because intelligence is not the only factor.

 

[NavyGuy7]

Source? How do you know that an animal is unable to tell it is going to die anyway ,since its rather hard to ask. Plus at what stage does a human generally gain this insight (and how much of this is due to education rather than our nature) - its not in very early childhood I believe since death requires some abstract thinking that is beyond them, in my experience very young children don't really comprehend that death means you are gone and can't comeback (they trip up at the concept of non-existence and/or irreversibility of the state). They understand danger, pain, etc which makes them avoid deadly scenarios, besides what about people who NEVER understand it (those which cognitive difficulties) does this mean they have no soul?

This is one of the biggest holes religions have, the soul is always poorly defined. What does it do? What does it take away when you die (memories, personality, emotions? If not those then how is it any sense recognizable as me anyway?)

When you die, the soul does not take away from you. How could it? It is you. You have all your memories, your personality, your emotions. Of course, the soul is poorly defined, and I'm half-drowning here myself trying to explain something I don't fully understand and, I don't think, ever will. AND once again, the soul is not the physical form of the mind, that can be damaged. Your soul can't be killed, impaired, or altered in any way. So even if someone has cognitive difficulties, they still have a soul, whether they understand it or not. The reason us "religions" as you put it cannot describe the soul accurately is because, maybe, just maybe, we don't understand it fully ourselves, hrm? I dunno, just my take on it. For all I know there could be someone who understands it. Though there are a lot of people out there who could probably do a better job than I'm doing.
And, if there really is no soul, then we are wasting our time. Then there is no life beyond this one. All our efforts are in vain, and there is no more hope than for an animal. This is something I refuse to believe, not because I'm "living in denial" but because it is the only thing that makes sense of why us humans are the way we are. I'm not just an animal. I'm human, a race unto myself. If there is no soul, than why bother living at all? Life... love... hope... where does it come from? And where does it go? To use a line from my favorite video game, Final Fantasy 6, anyway, lol.

 

[NavyGuy7]

How does saving the spark of consciousness work?

They're using my "definition" against me. I don't even know if it is an accurate definition of the soul. But just because I can't describe it does not mean it is non-existant, as atheism might have you believe. (that is not a flame against atheists, it is merely something I think atheism teaches as a fact, right? Correct me if I'm wrong.) If you're question means, how does saving the "soul" work, then I can tell you here or I can PM you. Whichever works. PM me if you want me to explain it to you in the PM. If not, I'll do it here within a week's time.

 

[ScMay]

When you die, the soul does not take away from you. How could it? It is you. You have all your memories, your personality, your emotions.

the soul is not the physical form of the mind, that can be damaged. Your soul can't be killed, impaired, or altered in any way. So even if someone has cognitive difficulties, they still have a soul, whether they understand it or not.

These two statements are contradictory to what we already know about the mind. personality and emotions have been proven to be dependant on physical structures in the brain, alter the structures and you alter the personality. There are numerous documented cases of severe and sudden damage to the brains frontal lobes resulting in drastic changes in a persons personality and general mood and affect, to the point where they are considered by family to be practically a completely different person with their loved ones memories and body.

The implications of this are
A. What happened to the soul in these scenarios? The soul is made up of their memories, personality and emotions and you claim it is unable to be "killed, impaired, or altered in any way". Yet clearly 2 of the 3 attributes have been at least drastically altered, probably impaired and possibly killed (depending on your perspective and definitions of the terms in this context). Does the soul of the "previous" personality go to heaven and a new one form for the "new" brain damaged person or is the same soul there, effectively 'killing' the old personality?

B. If localised damage to the brain can make such a drastic change tot he souls attributes then surely damage to the entire brain (i.e. like what occurs at death) will be catastrophic to the soul even if it does escape. Brain death is not instantaneous, therefore there will be a period however brief where 40%, 60% and 99% of the brain is dead but the soul is still "there" because of the remaining living bit, what happens to the soul? Clearly the personality and emotions would be different (if their brain were actually capable of implementing them into anything we could detect) and likely memories would be lost at this level of damage so what happens to the soul? By the time the soul escape due to complete brain death there would be nothing left to take away.

The reason us "religions" as you put it cannot describe the soul accurately is because, maybe, just maybe, we don't understand it fully ourselves, hrm? I dunno, just my take on it. For all I know there could be someone who understands it. Though there are a lot of people out there who could probably do a better job than I'm doing.

This is just ludicrous really, you and all other religions claim to KNOW you have and everyone else has a soul and you KNOW what happens to it after we die. Yet when asked what it is and in what sense it is us no one has any good definite idea. This is all while there is absolutely NO evidence for its existence and results in it being a completely unscientific claim because it is unfalsifiable because no one knows enough about what it is to make a prediction. The simpler and more obvious explanation is, there is no soul - that's why no one can actually say what it is.

Besides if no one can tell me in what sense the soul is 'me' then its hard to take claims that my soul will roast for eternity in hell if I do/don't do X. If the explanation doesn't make me consider the soul as part of 'me' as a thinking being then I care about as much about being told it will be tortured in hell as I would being told my little finger will be tortured in hell - my reaction would be "so?"

And, if there really is no soul, then we are wasting our time. Then there is no life beyond this one. All our efforts are in vain, and there is no more hope than for an animal. This is something I refuse to believe, not because I'm "living in denial" but because it is the only thing that makes sense of why us humans are the way we are. I'm not just an animal. I'm human, a race unto myself. If there is no soul, than why bother living at all? Life... love... hope... where does it come from? And where does it go? To use a line from my favorite video game, Final Fantasy 6, anyway, lol.

This is classic wishfull thinking. You have 2 possible explanations:
A. There is a soul
B. There isn't a soul
By your own admission you are denying one option (B) simply because you don't like the implications (that we are just very very very smart animals that have a finite lifespan with no objective meaning to our existence). I'm sorry but you are in denial, in denial about what it is to be a human - a very smart animal species but still just an animal species - and in denial about your own denial (lol, that sounds weird )

As for why bother living at all? Why not? Have you got something better to do? Death isn't all that fun, it isn't anything. Why do you NEED meaning given to your life? I would much prefer to (and do) given meaning to it myself rather than be told what to do. Just because there is no objective meaning to our lives does not mean we can't give it subjective meaning.

 

[NavyGuy7]

You're thinking too hard about the soul. The soul is a part of us, but not dependant on our mind. Otherwise there would be no hope for any of us beyond death, right? I don't think it's dependent on physical structures such as the brain. It is not made up of our emotions, but rather keeps them. It is not made up entirely of our memories, but rather.... keeps them. IF I somehow implied it was comprised solely of emotions, personality, etc, then forgive me, I didn't mean to do that. It possesses these things, sure, but it is not made of them. Thus, even if the brain was damaged, or even handicapped, I don't think that damage makes a difference in regards to the soul. If they were fine before their brain was damaged, they will still be able to understand in the after-life. And when you die, by the way, your soul leaves the body. There are accounts, after all, of people looking down on their own bodies as the doctors and such struggled to revive them. Apparently it wasn't their time because they were brought back. But for however long it was, they were dead.

You see how complicated the issues surrounding the soul are?

 

[NavyGuy7]

This is classic wishfull thinking. You have 2 possible explanations:
A. There is a soul
B. There isn't a soul
By your own admission you are denying one option (B) simply because you don't like the implications (that we are just very very very smart animals that have a finite lifespan with no objective meaning to our existence). I'm sorry but you are in denial, in denial about what it is to be a human - a very smart animal species but still just an animal species - and in denial about your own denial (lol, that sounds weird )

As for why bother living at all? Why not? Have you got something better to do? Death isn't all that fun, it isn't anything. Why do you NEED meaning given to your life? I would much prefer to (and do) given meaning to it myself rather than be told what to do. Just because there is no objective meaning to our lives does not mean we can't give it subjective meaning.

To me, if there's nothing after this life, there's no sense in living, really. Besides... it's not that I'm in denial. It's that there's nothing that makes more sense to me. I suppose you'd have to be me to understand, but out of everything in the world, God makes the most sense, as well as the soul. And I don't really think we're super-smart, either. Some people are dumber than some animals. SO I don't think intelligence is the only factor to consider.
But since we're not getting any farther on the subject of the soul, we should probably switch to something else. Cuz I can predict the next couple of posts on this issue. I'll say the soul exists regardless, and you'll continue to push your "view" of non-existence of the soul. So let's just skip a few steps and end the argument, ok?

 

[Hypersonic]

You're thinking too hard about the soul. The soul is a part of us, but not dependant on our mind. Otherwise there would be no hope for any of us beyond death, right? I don't think it's dependent on physical structures such as the brain. It is not made up of our emotions, but rather keeps them. It is not made up entirely of our memories, but rather.... keeps them. IF I somehow implied it was comprised solely of emotions, personality, etc, then forgive me, I didn't mean to do that. It possesses these things, sure, but it is not made of them. Thus, even if the brain was damaged, or even handicapped, I don't think that damage makes a difference in regards to the soul. If they were fine before their brain was damaged, they will still be able to understand in the after-life. And when you die, by the way, your soul leaves the body. There are accounts, after all, of people looking down on their own bodies as the doctors and such struggled to revive them. Apparently it wasn't their time because they were brought back. But for however long it was, they were dead.

You see how complicated the issues surrounding the soul are?

What would happen if a person was mentally handicapped at birth, would they be mentally handicapped in the after-life?

 

[Hypersonic]

well I think they would

 

[Hypersonic]

so is the brain separated from the memory? because maybe the mentally handicappedness (if that is a word) would only exist in the physical brain but the memory is totally mental and is not effected, what do people think?