How does one avoid spiritual confusion?

[disciple Clint]

"I am" appears many times in the Bible where it doesn't mean God. Normally it isn't even translated as "I am" except for John 8:58. It's just translated that way by Trinitarians to help them.

John 1:1,14 says the word is God not Yeshua, and that Yeshua was begotten by God when God's word became flesh.

Thomas didn't say "you are God" and Thomas isn't an authority anyway. The important thing to notice is that Yeshua never claimed it. He taught his disciples that the only God is the Father.

John 17:3
3And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

Paul believed this as well:

2 Corinthians 1:3
3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort,

I suppose that if I pointed out the evidence in church history confirming that Jesus is in fact God or simply pointed out that your view is in a very small minority and conflicts with almost every theologian in history you would just keep trying to make your point by misquoting and twisting scripture to try and get the bible to say something that it clearly does not say. You obviously do not want to learn instead you want to argue, so go in peace.

 

[Runningman]

I suppose that if I pointed out the evidence in church history confirming that Jesus is in fact God or simply pointed out that your view is in a very small minority and conflicts with almost every theologian in history you would just keep trying to make your point by misquoting and twisting scripture to try and get the bible to say something that it clearly does not say. You obviously do not want to learn instead you want to argue, so go in peace.

If you pointed out something that didn’t contradict the Bible’s narrative of God not being a man and Yeshua being a man then I may accept it. Would you?

 

[Runningman]

Jesus also said, "Before Abraham was, I Am." That is a declaration of His divinity that enraged the Jews. He is called the visible image of the invisible God. (Colossians 1:15)

I've had several encounters with Jehovah's Witnesses, especially early in my Christian life. I was compelled to find the answers to their false teachings, which the Bible clearly refutes. I did not read books or listen to others. I determined the truth for myself. Jesus is both God and Man. Human logic and reason cannot understand this truth. It is spiritual, not natural.

I've had several encounters with Trinitarians, especially early in my Christian life. I was compelled to find the answers to their false teachings, which the Bible clearly refutes. I did not read books or listen to others. I determined the truth for myself. Jesus is a man and not God. Human logic and reason cannot understand this truth. It is spiritual, not natural.

We pretty much had similar experiences but came to different conclusions.

 

[Aussie Pete]

I've had several encounters with Trinitarians, especially early in my Christian life. I was compelled to find the answers to their false teachings, which the Bible clearly refutes. I did not read books or listen to others. I determined the truth for myself. Jesus is a man and not God. Human logic and reason cannot understand this truth. It is spiritual, not natural.

We pretty much had similar experiences but came to different conclusions.

Sure, my conclusion is precisely what the Bible says. How can you argue with John 8:58/Exodus 3:14?
How about Colossians 1:15? John 1:1? John 1:14?

Jesus claimed the same authority as God. He was condemned for forgiving sin, which only God can do. (Luke 5: 17-22) His response? He healed the sinner. He was obviously referring to psalm 103:3. Many times Jesus said, "I Am", the title that belongs to God alone. He calls Himself the good shepherd, a reference to psalm 23. You choose to disbelieve. Only you know why.

 

[Runningman]

Sure, my conclusion is precisely what the Bible says. How can you argue with John 8:58/Exodus 3:14?

I'm also going by precisely what the Bible says.

John 8:58 doesn't say what you said it does. You're interpreting that. “I am” occurs many other times in the New Testament and is used as an identifying phrase. It doesn't mean the same thing as God saying it in Exodus 3:14.

It would be like saying Artaxerxes is God because he is called a king of kings. We know this isn't true.

Ezra 7
12Artaxerxes, king of kings,
To Ezra the priest, a scribe of the Law of the God of heaven:
Perfect peace, and so forth.

How about Colossians 1:15?

The "image" of God refers to the outward appearance.

G1504. eikón
Strong's Concordance
eikón: an image, i.e. lit. statue, fig. representation
Original Word: εἰκών, όνος, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: eikón
Phonetic Spelling: (i-kone')
Definition: an image, statue, representation
Usage: an image, likeness, bust.

John 1:1? John 1:14?

It says the word is God, not Yeshua. John 1:14 says Yeshua was begotten. God isn't a begotten Son. God is eternal.

Jesus claimed the same authority as God. He was condemned for forgiving sin, which only God can do. (Luke 5: 17-22) His response? He healed the sinner. He was obviously referring to psalm 103:3. Many times Jesus said, "I Am", the title that belongs to God alone. He calls Himself the good shepherd, a reference to psalm 23. You choose to disbelieve. Only you know why.

God supplied the authority, the miracles, the doctrines, the gospel, gave Yeshua directions, called all of the shots. Yeshua said the one and only true God is the Father. The God he worshipped, called God, Lord, prayed to, thanked, etc.

Matthew 28:18
18And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

John 12:49-50
49For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak. 50And I know that His command is everlasting life. Therefore, whatever I speak, just as the Father has told Me, so I speak.”

John 14
10Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works.

John 8
28Then Jesus said to them, “When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and that I do nothing of Myself; but as My Father taught Me, I speak these things.

John 17:3
3And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

Matthew 11:25
25At that time Jesus answered and said, “I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and have revealed them to babes.

John 20:17
17Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, ‘I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.’ ”

 

[Aussie Pete]

I'm also going by precisely what the Bible says.

John 8:58 doesn't say what you said it does. You're interpreting that. “I am” occurs many other times in the New Testament and is used as an identifying phrase. It doesn't mean the same thing as God saying it in Exodus 3:14.

It would be like saying Artaxerxes is God because he is called a king of kings. We know this isn't true.

Ezra 7
12Artaxerxes, king of kings,
To Ezra the priest, a scribe of the Law of the God of heaven:
Perfect peace, and so forth.

The "image" of God refers to the outward appearance.

G1504. eikón
Strong's Concordance
eikón: an image, i.e. lit. statue, fig. representation
Original Word: εἰκών, όνος, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: eikón
Phonetic Spelling: (i-kone')
Definition: an image, statue, representation
Usage: an image, likeness, bust.

It says the word is God, not Yeshua. John 1:14 says Yeshua was begotten. God isn't a begotten Son. God is eternal.

God supplied the authority, the miracles, the doctrines, the gospel, gave Yeshua directions, called all of the shots. Yeshua said the one and only true God is the Father. The God he worshipped, called God, Lord, prayed to, thanked, etc.

Matthew 28:18
18And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

John 12:49-50
49For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak. 50And I know that His command is everlasting life. Therefore, whatever I speak, just as the Father has told Me, so I speak.”

John 14
10Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works.

John 8
28Then Jesus said to them, “When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and that I do nothing of Myself; but as My Father taught Me, I speak these things.

John 17:3
3And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

Matthew 11:25
25At that time Jesus answered and said, “I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and have revealed them to babes.

John 20:17
17Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, ‘I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.’ ”

I note that you do not respond to the rest of the NT claims. Colossians 1:15 for example. You do not answer the statement that the Word was God who became flesh. You know that the Jews were greatly offended because they realised that Jesus was claiming to be God. You do not answer that either. You reject the interpretation that "I Am" is the same "I Am" that God said to Moses. You have no justification for that except that it does not fit in with your own (wrong) interpretation.

 

[Runningman]

I note that you do not respond to the rest of the NT claims. Colossians 1:15 for example. You do not answer the statement that the Word was God who became flesh. You know that the Jews were greatly offended because they realised that Jesus was claiming to be God. You do not answer that either. You reject the interpretation that "I Am" is the same "I Am" that God said to Moses. You have no justification for that except that it does not fit in with your own (wrong) interpretation.

In regards to Colossians 1:15, I answered it. I defined what the word image means in the verse.

The "image" of God refers to the outward appearance.

G1504. eikón
Strong's Concordance
eikón: an image, i.e. lit. statue, fig. representation
Original Word: εἰκών, όνος, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: eikón
Phonetic Spelling: (i-kone')
Definition: an image, statue, representation
Usage: an image, likeness, bust.

The Word is God. Don't lose track of who the word is. The word became flesh. Logos is a reference to God expressing Himself through His Spirit and creating a man hence why Yeshua is called a begotten son.

Yeshua never claimed to be God. When accused of that, contrary to the charges of blasphemy against him, he said he is a man.

John 8
40But now you are trying to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham never did such a thing.

As far as "I am" goes, it isn't typically translated that way. Trinitarians changed it to that to give them something to hold onto. There are no explicit admissions by Yeshua of being God or anyone who explicitly referred to him as such in the Bible.

 

[AbbaLove]

Jesus also said, "Before Abraham was, I Am." That is a declaration of His divinity that enraged the Jews. He is called the visible image of the invisible God. (Colossians 1:15)

I've had several encounters with Jehovah's Witnesses, especially early in my Christian life. I was compelled to find the answers to their false teachings, which the Bible clearly refutes. I did not read books or listen to others. I determined the truth for myself. Jesus is both God and Man. Human logic and reason cannot understand this truth. It is spiritual, not natural.

It's not unusual to also find some followers of Messianic Judaism that are hard pressed to believe that Yeshua HaMashiach is the physical manifestation of YHVH (YaHaVaH = the Love of God) ... Hebrew Word of the Week - Ahavah

Some Spiritual concepts aren't easy for the human mind to grasp (i.e. triune nature of "I Am that I Am" ...

​

​

What Did Jesus Mean by 'Before Abraham Was, I Am'?

The very oddity of this statement’s grammatical structure shows that Jesus is speaking about something other than pre-existence. In calling himself “I am”, Jesus declares a truth about who he is. To understand the full nuance of this, we must go...

www.crosswalk.com

Possibly he is so opposed to the RCC and many centuries of their opposition to Judaism for changing the Sabbath from the 7th day of the week to Sunday. Because of what may be his anti-RCC position and the use of their non-Biblical word "trinity" that it is nearly impossible for him to believe that Christ Jesus is the physical manifestation of Father God Incarnate ...

Hebrew phrase אֶהְיֶה אֲשֶׁר אֶהְיֶה‎‎ – also "I am who (I) am", "I will become what I choose to become", "I am what I am", "I will be what I will be", "I create what I create", or "I am the Existing One". Wikipedia​

https://www.knowol.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/i-and-my-father-are-one-1280x640.jpg

 

[Aussie Pete]

It's not unusual to also find some followers of Messianic Judaism that are hard pressed to believe that Yeshua HaMashiach is the physical manifestation of YHVH (YaHaVaH = the Love of God) ... Hebrew Word of the Week - Ahavah

Some Spiritual concepts aren't easy for the human mind to grasp (i.e. triune nature of "I Am that I Am" ...

​

​

What Did Jesus Mean by 'Before Abraham Was, I Am'?

The very oddity of this statement’s grammatical structure shows that Jesus is speaking about something other than pre-existence. In calling himself “I am”, Jesus declares a truth about who he is. To understand the full nuance of this, we must go...

www.crosswalk.com

Possibly he is so opposed to the RCC and many centuries of their opposition to Judaism for changing the Sabbath from the 7th day of the week to Sunday. Because of what may be his anti-RCC position and the use of their non-Biblical word "trinity" that it is nearly impossible for him to believe that Christ Jesus is the physical manifestation of Father God Incarnate ...

Hebrew phrase אֶהְיֶה אֲשֶׁר אֶהְיֶה‎‎ – also "I am who (I) am", "I will become what I choose to become", "I am what I am", "I will be what I will be", "I create what I create", or "I am the Existing One". Wikipedia​

https://www.knowol.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/i-and-my-father-are-one-1280x640.jpg

Thinking about it more, it's not at all confusing. Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit, not by a human Father. Therefore His nature is God. The fertilised egg was human, from Mary's ovaries, so He is also Man. We are not God because we have human parents. We are partakers of the divine nature because God includes us in Christ when we believe. We will be like Him, but we will never be Him. This was God's intent in Eden. The natural man, Adam, was supposed to eat of the Tree of Life. Jesus had to be Man in order to save him. He had to be God in order to be righteous and so sufficient sacrifice for the sins of the world.

 

[d taylor]

-

Simple as The Bible states it. Jesus is The Word and The Word is God
​

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

Was
Strong's Concordance
eimi: I exist, I am
Original Word: εἰμί
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: eimi
Phonetic Spelling: (i-mee')
Definition: I exist, I am
Usage: I am, exist.

So when the verse says was God, that is saying I am God