How does marriage work?

[JulesM]

Hi guys, this may be something that maybe only folks in the UK can help me with, I don't know...

My boyf and I are getting married next year. We don't want to get married in our current church cos the building is horrible (not quite the fairy tale I hoped for!)

We're looking at marrying in a castle, but that raises some questions...

1. Does this mean we can't have a pastor from our own church marry us?

2. Will be still be able to have a religious ceremony - as castles only have licences for civil ceremonies?

Thanks!

 

[LiberatedChick]

We're looking at marrying in a castle, but that raises some questions...

1. Does this mean we can't have a pastor from our own church marry us?

2. Will be still be able to have a religious ceremony - as castles only have licences for civil ceremonies?

Thanks!

1. No the pastor won't be able to marry you. In a civil ceremony it has to be the superintendant registrar. You'd have to speak with them and "give notice" (give notice of your intention to marry...essentially just means a piece of paper is posted on a notice board for 15 days to see if anyone has legal reasons to object) at the local register office and book the ceremony date and time with them. On the day they will travel to the castle and marry you there.

2. Nope. Civil ceremonies have to be completely non-religious. You can't have ANYTHING religious in them (this includes any readings you want, music, vows etc). Everything you want to change from the basic ceremony layout has to be checked and approved by the registrar.

Don't let any of this put you off though. My husband and I married in a civil ceremony last year and it was lovely. If you really have your heart set on your pastor marrying you in a religious ceremony though then go for that...don't worry about not having the fairytale building. It's only four walls. Bringing in flowers could help pretty up the inside and there's no reason why you can't have photos taken at a prettier location (reception venue or somewhere along the way like a river bank, lake, park etc)

 

[Southern Cross]

What? Wow. Please check your local laws and facts. In the US, as long as the pastor is authorized to act as a civil representative, all would be fine in the scenario you've presented. We can have religious ceremonies in any location.

I have a British friend here in the US who was married at a British counrtyside resort location by their pastor last year. I just spoke to him about this, and he said there were no problems conducting the marriage at what was by definition a civil ceremony.

Of course, I am only familiar with various state requirements in the US, because I photograph weddings and often work with officiants and pastors. Outside of the marriage license, everything can be handled by the pastor an local town records office here.

 

[LiberatedChick]

What? Wow. Please check your local laws and facts. In the US, as long as the pastor is authorized to act as a civil representative, all would be fine in the scenario you've presented. We can have religious ceremonies in any location.

I have a British friend here in the US who was married at a British counrtyside resort location by their pastor last year. I just spoke to him about this, and he said there were no problems conducting the marriage at what was by definition a civil ceremony.

Of course, I am only familiar with various state requirements in the US, because I photograph weddings and often work with officiants and pastors. Outside of the marriage license, everything can be handled by the pastor an local town records office here.

My husband and I checked the laws and facts in October 2003 when we arranged our wedding ceremony. The laws haven't changed since then. No religious content is allowed and the registrar has to conduct the ceremony. I believe there is a new law in consideration to license the person and not the venue and in which case a couple would be able to get married anywhere (so long as they don't trespass!) so long as a registered person married them. This law hasn't been passed yet.

For more information on civil ceremony requirements see this site http://www.confetti.co.uk/weddings/advice_ideas/ceremony/civil.asp
....they're virtually dedicated to UK weddings and gave some good message boards. That URL details the requirements of UK civil weddings but by clicking the "wedding" tab at the top of the page you can get various other information ranging from ideas, traditional roles and further legal info. My husband and I found this site incredibly useful when planning our wedding.

 

[JulesM]

I thought so! Thanks for all your help...

 

[gracefaith]

Wow, I had no idea that they had these sort of laws in the UK. What business is of the government's where you have your wedding, who conducts it and what kind of words you use? That really irritates me just thinking about it.

 

[LiberatedChick]

Wow, I had no idea that they had these sort of laws in the UK. What business is of the government's where you have your wedding, who conducts it and what kind of words you use? That really irritates me just thinking about it.

It's so that the wedding is legal. Otherwise there'd be people having weddings in all manner of ways in all manner of places and no way of recording it. We have a state religion here....the Church of England and I believe looking back they were pretty much considered the only religion of the country. Births, marriages and deaths have always been recorded and the church has had that role through it's parish records.

These days we've kept the system of recording marriages but as our culture has become more diverse those who are non-religious or of another religion have to be catered for also. The Church of England is open to anyone, anyone can marry there if they so wish but not everyone wants to be married in a Christian ceremony anymore...hence the civil ceremony.

So for a wedding to be legal it has to be either a CofE ceremony or a civil ceremony in a registered building (register offices themselves and many hotels, castles and other venues have registered). At the end of the ceremony you get a marriage certificate which the bride can show to her bank, workplace, passport office etc etc in order to change her name and marital status. No where will change these things without it and no one will consider you married without it.

The vows...well in a church they're the standard vows I believe from the Common Book of Prayer though there are a couple versions of vows to choose from now. In a civil ceremony you have to say two things...a declaration statement and a contracting vow. The declaration is basically you stating that you don't know of any reason why you can't be legally married. The contracting vow is so you say that you take the other person to be your husband or wife. You have to say those and then you can include your own vows for when you exchange rings....but in order not to step on the toes of the CofE or any other religion it has to be non-religious.

I've never thought of this as irritating...I actually rather like the system and the fact it all has to be recorded. I suppose that's because I understand it and can see some reasons for why they do these things.

 

[JulesM]

Its not irritating...it makes sense. I guess I want it all...the castle and a God centred ceremony...

I asked in the other thread (same subject) if its likely I'd find a castle that would let us have a religous blessing...

I think I need to do some asking around...

Thanks for all your advice!

 

[gracefaith]

I've never thought of this as irritating...I actually rather like the system and the fact it all has to be recorded. I suppose that's because I understand it and can see some reasons for why they do these things.

Sorry, that was the snotty American in me coming out. I hadn't considered it in the context of country with a state religion. Still, I don't see why you can't invoke the name of God, even if you aren't getting married in the church. How do they handle marriages of other religions?

 

[LiberatedChick]

Sorry, that was the snotty American in me coming out. I hadn't considered it in the context of country with a state religion. Still, I don't see why you can't invoke the name of God, even if you aren't getting married in the church. How do they handle marriages of other religions?

I think one of the reasons why they won't allow anything religious is because the government wouldn't want something that is meant to be used by all religions to become linked to one in particular. The civil ceremony is meant to be for everyone, regardless of beliefs so they don't want people to start bringing their beliefs into it. Also the Church could argue that if you wanted to call upon God in the ceremony why not have it in a church, they're open to everyone whether you're regularly attend or not. Also the CofE has various traditions, other religions have their traditions also and I don't think any would want to run the risk of those traditions being changed about and put to use by someone that isn't a pastor.

In order to be legally married other religions would still have to go through the civil or CofE ceremony and they can carry out the ceremony for their religion sometime before or after at another location. The majority of people I've spoken to tend to have a civil ceremony in a register office before with just the two witnesses that are required by law. Then hold their wedding ceremony either later that day or the day after. This way they do the legal bit (which if you don't have any music or additional vows only takes about 10 minutes) and then marry according to the customs of their religion.

 

[ScarletRubies]

I've got to admit, reading this thread has brought out the snotty Aussie in me! (Actually, is there any such animal?)

In Australia, to the best of my knowledge, a marriage celebrant is free to say/do pretty much anything you want them to (that they agree to do). A minister of religion is allowed (legally; I guess some denoms might prohibit them) to conduct civil ceremonies, and is allowed to do this in any building (with permission).

My husband and I got married on a public wharf, at a cruise ship reception facility which is managed by the local council, by our Baptist pastor, who used vows written by us, Scriptures and poetry - all on an open wooden deck, surrounded by not only a fleet of our friends, but about 5 naval vessels from 3 countries (complete with hooting sailors! ), and something like 2000 members of the public at other places on the wharf.

After the ceremony, there was a jumping castle for some (inc. one dressed up bridesmaid - but not the bride ), a trip to Portugal for the bride, groom & photographer (well, it was a Portuguese ship!), and a trip to the local takeaway shop for Iced Coffee for the groom & his mates - again, the bride missed out!

Man, I LOVE being an Aussie!!!

 

[Cherub8]

1. No the pastor won't be able to marry you. In a civil ceremony it has to be the superintendant registrar. You'd have to speak with them and "give notice" (give notice of your intention to marry...essentially just means a piece of paper is posted on a notice board for 15 days to see if anyone has legal reasons to object) at the local register office and book the ceremony date and time with them. On the day they will travel to the castle and marry you there.

2. Nope. Civil ceremonies have to be completely non-religious. You can't have ANYTHING religious in them (this includes any readings you want, music, vows etc). Everything you want to change from the basic ceremony layout has to be checked and approved by the registrar.

Seems dangerously intrusive to me. :o
(No offense to your country intended, just an observation.)

God bless

 

[Sascha Fitzpatrick]

I've known this for a while - and it still surprises me! Mind you - if I was in England, I'd be going to the nearest castle that was available to do it (actually scrap that, wonder if I could get to Ireland and have it in Slane???) Have a REAL medieval wedding!

But no, again as an Aussie, my Salvation Army Officer can marry me on a cliff top at Byron Bay... we are DEFINITELY the lucky country!

Sasch

 

[LiberatedChick]

*shrugs* I don't see it as intrusive (no offense taken btw ) or unlucky at all. Especially when there's been problems with asylum seekers marrying someone so they can stay in the country I think it's a good thing that everything has to be recorded and only certain people can carry out the ceremonies. The registrars have a responsibility to report anyone they think is marrying in order to get round immigration rules, recently there's been a crackdown on sham marriages and new laws have been introduced to stop it.

I think it'd be good if they change the law so the person and not the building is registered as then they could be conducted anywhere (though with our weather some wouldn't take the risk unless they hired a marquee as well!) but I wouldn't want them to change the law in such a way that the ceremony could be conducted by anyone. Then there's the fact that there's some who don't hold the same view of marriage (i.e. between one man, one woman, until death do ye part) as the law so ensuring that ceremonies fit a certain standard ensures that the marriage taking place is to be what the law defines as a marriage. Personally, I wouldn't want it any other way though I must admit...the marriage laws of other countries seem pretty strange to me so I'm not surprised that ours seem strange to others.