how does it "lessen" her role?

[Uphill Battle]

May I ask how not believing in PV, IC, sinlessness etc...

lessens the role of Mary in the incarnation?

Protestants for the most part fully accept that Mary bore God Incarnate, that she is the Theotokos (although most don't use that title.)

How is it that I detract from what part Mary played, if I don't believe her to be any of the RCC, or EO dogmas?

I can't see where believing otherwise removes any of the honour that she receives for what she did....

 

[repentant]

Well if you don't understand virginty and the purity of it, you will never understand the Theotokos. Theotokos and the EV of Mary are the only 2 Doctrines the EOC have about her, but these speak more on Christ than her..

 

[Benedicta00]

May I ask how not believing in PV, IC, sinlessness etc...

lessens the role of Mary in the incarnation?

Protestants for the most part fully accept that Mary bore God Incarnate, that she is the Theotokos (although most don't use that title.)

How is it that I detract from what part Mary played, if I don't believe her to be any of the RCC, or EO dogmas?

I can't see where believing otherwise removes any of the honour that she receives for what she did....

You do not understand because you do not understand Theosis. It's not about lessening her honor, it's about God' plan for mankind.

 

[jeffweeder]

She believed what God had planned, thats it.
She was a human being who said yes to Gods revelation.
Jesus in the flesh didnt do anything until the Godhead was in unity together
The father spoke from above.., the son fullfilled all rightousness in baptism, and the Holy Spirit descended on him----salvation was then preached by God to the world, through the man Christ Jesus.
Jesus was called good and didnt like it.
He said no-one is good but God alone.

 

[PassthePeace1]

She believed what God had planned, thats it.
She was a human being who said yes to Gods revelation.
Jesus in the flesh didnt do anything until the Godhead was in unity together
The father spoke from above.., the son fullfilled all rightousness in baptism, and the Holy Spirit descended on him----salvation was then preached by God to the world, through the man Christ Jesus.
Jesus was called good and didnt like it.
He said no-one is good but God alone.

Are you saying that Jesus didn't become divine until His baptism? Oh, please tell me....that is not what you meant...

 

[blessedpeace]

i'm finding it interesting that so many christians believe so many different things. most of it twisted far from the truth. when truth from God's word is given many reject it when it doesn't fit in with what is comfortable.

i also find that not one pastor or church teaches the low down truth about easter and christmas. they observe these pagan holidays in God's house that were going on centuries before Christ was born and have nothing to do with Christ or Christianity.

i just find it interesting for christians who claim to believe God to have so many different beliefs.

 

[Uphill Battle]

Well if you don't understand virginty and the purity of it, you will never understand the Theotokos. Theotokos and the EV of Mary are the only 2 Doctrines the EOC have about her, but these speak more on Christ than her..

I understand that an unmarried woman as a virgin is pure. Mary was such. I understand what is proposed about the value of virginity (as in pure) as compared to the married faithful (not pure) but I disagree with the premise.

Again, what exactly does not believing in those marian dogmas detract from her role in the incarnation?

You do not understand because you do not understand Theosis. It's not about lessening her honor, it's about God' plan for mankind.

I understand perfectly. I fail to see what that has to do with the Marian dogmas.

 

[Asinner]

I can't see where believing otherwise removes any of the honour that she receives for what she did....

This is a question only you can answer. I believe you are trying to understand things that can only be understood with a proper foundation. I am only now beginning to understand the role Mary played and it's importance. Do you really desire to understand or do you only desire to know we are wrong and you are right? You will never understand the Theotokos until you can understand the Old Testament and what the Church is. Start there first.

Love,
Christina

 

[IamAdopted]

I don't see how Mary being a PV is Gods plan for mankind. For God created them in the beginning male and female to become on flesh. Woman was created for mans glory. It is man that was created for Gods Glory. So how does keeping Mary a PV help with Gods plan?

 

[IamAdopted]

Please explain what you are trying to tell us about the OT and the church. This might help some.

 

[Uphill Battle]

This is a question only you can answer. I believe you are trying to understand things that can only be understood with a proper foundation. I am only now beginning to understand the role Mary played and it's importance. Do you really desire to understand or do you only desire to know we are wrong and you are right? You will never understand the Theotokos until you can understand the Old Testament and what the Church is. Start there first.

Love,
Christina

Im trying to understand how those of us who don't believe in the Marian Dogmas are somehow lessening the Role Mary played.

Nothing more, nothing less. Not arguing the dogmas themselves.

 

[Asinner]

Im trying to understand how those of us who don't believe in the Marian Dogmas are somehow lessening the Role Mary played.

Nothing more, nothing less. Not arguing the dogmas themselves.

What is the purpose of life, Uphill Battle? Why are you here?

Love,
Christina

 

[Uphill Battle]

What is the purpose of life, Uphill Battle? Why are you here?

Love,
Christina

to Love God.

what has that to do with it?

 

[Asinner]

to Love God.

what has that to do with it?

It has everything to do with it. Your answer is incomplete. Once you understand your purpose, then and only then, can you even begin to understand the importance of Mary.

Love,
Christina

 

[Uphill Battle]

It has everything to do with it. Your answer is incomplete. Once you understand your purpose, then and only then, can you even begin to understand the importance of Mary.

Love,
Christina

of course the answer is incomplete. But it is the basic reasoning behind existance. I have other purposes.

But this vague "You won't understand unless....."

is kind of a worthless answer, I'm afraid... it doesn't add much to answering the OP.

 

[Asinner]

of course the answer is incomplete. But it is the basic reasoning behind existance. I have other purposes.

But this vague "You won't understand unless....."

is kind of a worthless answer, I'm afraid... it doesn't add much to answering the OP.

It is not our purpose. It is a fruit, the most important one, that comes from the Holy Spirit.

I am sorry you think my answer is worthless. It is like what Christ said:
If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you [of] heavenly things?

Something earthly would be this . . . A virgin is physically pure; whereas someone married is no longer physically pure. Do you believe this?

Love,
Christina

 

[Axion]

Im trying to understand how those of us who don't believe in the Marian Dogmas are somehow lessening the Role Mary played.

Nothing more, nothing less. Not arguing the dogmas themselves.

It's that if you believe Mary was a sinner, or that Mary and Joseph wasn't satisfied with Jesus as their only child, this is bound to affect your belief in the uniqueness of the incarnation of Jesus. One can then go on to imagine that as well as brothers jesus had sons

Was jesus really the only-begotten son of God if He wasn't even that to Mary?

Was Jesus really God and man incarnate, if He took his body and nature from a sinner?

 

[Uphill Battle]

It is not our purpose. It is a fruit, the most important one, that comes from the Holy Spirit.

then expound on what our purpose is.

I am sorry you think my answer is worthless. It is like what Christ said:
If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you [of] heavenly things?

do you speak as Christ now? Frankly, I hate it when people quote that passage, as if they have the heavenly things in hand. That was Jesus's words... but I digress. What is worthless is that you say "that's incomplete" and "you won't understand" without even bothering to try to make your P.O.V. understandable.

Something earthly would be this . . . A virgin is physically pure; whereas someone married is no longer physically pure. Do you believe this?

yes or no.

is a woman who remains a virgin until her marriage, and then is faithful to her husband, any less pure? no.

 

[Asinner]

then expound on what our purpose is.

Theosis.

do you speak as Christ now? Frankly, I hate it when people quote that passage, as if they have the heavenly things in hand. That was Jesus's words... but I digress. What is worthless is that you say "that's incomplete" and "you won't understand" without even bothering to try to make your P.O.V. understandable.

Many on here have attempted to explain it many times.

is a woman who remains a virgin until her marriage, and then is faithful to her husband, any less pure? no.

A woman who is known by a man, is no longer physically pure. If you cannot comprehend this, then you cannot comprehend Mary's role.

Love,
Christina

 

[Uphill Battle]

It's that if you believe Mary was a sinner, or that Mary and Joseph wasn't satisfied with Jesus as their only child, this is bound to affect your belief in the uniqueness of the incarnation of Jesus.

funny... I place my thoughts on the uniqueness of the incarnation on the fact that it's the only conception by the Holy Spirit. Maybe that's just me.

One can then go on to imagine that as well as brothers jesus had sons

foolishness. Ask how many who don't believe in PV, hold that Jesus had sons.

Was jesus really the only-begotten son of God if He wasn't even that to Mary?

False Dilemma! sure, why not? One conception by the Holy Spirit. That has zero to do with any children that Mary and Joseph may or may not have had.

Was Jesus really God and man incarnate, if He took his body and nature from a sinner?

yes. I don't have any problem with the notion that God could use a sinner for Holy purposes. Not sure why you do.