How does Eschatology effect attitude? (for men)

[All Glory To God]

While I don't necessarily buy into the ideal that Christ will come again today or tomorrow, I have begun to believe He may return in my lifetime. Far from having an apathetic uncaring attitude, I see the day of His approaching from my view of the Corporate or Universal Church on earth. In my opinion like no other time in history I see the universal church allowing abominations, false doctrines, ecumenical merging all faiths in a desire to get along. And greater than ever before in my opinion I see a falling away from the faith of Christ, turning to another gospel that is no gospel at all.

Understanding how the corporate universal church more than any other time in history (IMO) has turned away from the true and pure Gospel of Christ has instilled in me a spirit of urgency to bring the Gospel of Christ to unsaved friends and family members like never before in the past. When I thought there was still time because the church was in times past faithfully bringing the message of the Gospel, with the consequences for turning away from Christ with conviction, I think I didn't really take God's command to go out with the Gospel very seriously. If I just told people, they needed to go to Church then my job as a Christian was fulfilled.

But since in my opinion we are living in the time of the falling away Paul tells us would come before Christ comes again, it is more important than ever before to realize believers in Christ are the True Church called to preach the Gospel to all the world. The corporate churches on earth cannot be relied upon to lead unbelievers to Christ. They have almost entirely failed and most it appears have become places where Satan dwells with his so-called ministers of righteousness.

I am Amillennial, coming from premillennial beginnings. Premillennialism cannot be biblically supported, and when embraced cannot give an answer for all the contradictions this doctrine forces into Scripture. If I have the correct understanding of Postmillennialism, it also errs believing that the earth will become better and better until the whole world has become Christianized. Neither can this doctrine be biblically supported.

Amillennialism is a legitimate position in my opinion but the one thing about the ''falling away'' is that there are more Christians now than there have ever been. And I'm not sure if the number is really going down or not? So, how do be account for that during a falling away? It seems contradictory.

 

[eclipsenow]

I used to be an Amillennialist which is what the Protestant Reformers believed. It holds that the Roman Catholic Church is the harlot of Babylon and the Pope is the Anti-Christ.

That's unlike any Amillenialism I've ever been taught in Sydney Anglican circles. The Anti-Christ is a personification of rebellion against God - and Revelation 13 is about Rome persecuting Christians. It's therefore applicable to ANY Christian being persecuted by the government in ANY century pretty much after it was written.

 

[rwb]

Amillennialism is a legitimate position in my opinion but the one thing about the ''falling away'' is that there are more Christians now than there have ever been. And I'm not sure if the number is really going down or not? So, how do be account for that during a falling away? It seems contradictory.

Are there more Christians now, or are there more professing to be Christians now? What I see as the falling away is actually in accord with those who are only professing Christianity without true faith. This in my opinion agrees with the falling away from faith Paul warns will come. And in my opinion has come because too many churches today preach another gospel that is no gospel at all. Its design is to increase membership rather than increasing men/women of saving faith. Christ tells us many who have done good works in the name of Christ will be disappointed when they find their good works have gained them condemnation instead of everlasting life.

Matthew 7:21-23 (KJV) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

 

[All Glory To God]

That's unlike any Amillenialism I've ever been taught in Sydney Anglican circles . . .

Well if you look at the original Protestant confessions, it's right their that they believe the Pope is the anti-Christ. I will note that some of these churches of recent years have changed their confessions.

 

[All Glory To God]

Are there more Christians now, or are there more professing to be Christians now? . . .

I thought you might say this hehe.

I couldn't prove they are saved anymore than you could prove that they are not saved. But like I said, I think Amillennialism is a legitimate position and I like it because it keeps us on ours toes and reminds us Christ is the one who decides when the end will be. And to be prepared for his return.

 

[rwb]

I thought you might say this hehe.

I couldn't prove they are saved anymore than you could prove that they are not saved. But like I said, I think Amillennialism is a legitimate position and I like it because it keeps us on ours toes and reminds us Christ is the one who decides when the end will be. And to be prepared for his return.

The reason I embrace the doctrines taught through Amillennialism is because it is the only end-time doctrine that does not force contradiction into the Word of God. Contradictions, more than I believe anything else definitely affects one eschatological perspective.

 

[grafted branch]

The reason I embrace the doctrines taught through Amillennialism is because it is the only end-time doctrine that does not force contradiction into the Word of God. Contradictions, more than I believe anything else definitely affects one eschatological perspective.

I used to be Amil but l see contradictions in this view.

When I was Amil (more than 10 years ago) I was convinced that we were in Satans little season. I thought we should assemble ourselves with like minded people because we saw the day approaching (Hebrews 10:25). I thought I should warn others about the times we were in (Ezekiel 33:6). I thought others who didn’t see things as we did were the ones who were deceived. I now realize that I was the one who was deceived back then.

The op asked the question of how your view influences your attitude. If you and your church were convinced that Satans little season had started would your attitude change?

 

[parousia70]

Are there more Christians now, or are there more professing to be Christians now?

Undeniably More of Both.
and there will be more of Both tomorrow than there are today.

Christ tells us many who have done good works in the name of Christ will be disappointed when they find their good works have gained them condemnation instead of everlasting life.

Christ tells us those who have faith but fail to treat the least among us (and therefore Him) as He commanded, will be disappointed as well when they find their faith brought them to nothing.

Matthew 25:41-46
41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’

44 “Then they also will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

 

[rwb]

I used to be Amil but l see contradictions in this view.

When I was Amil (more than 10 years ago) I was convinced that we were in Satans little season. I thought we should assemble ourselves with like minded people because we saw the day approaching (Hebrews 10:25). I thought I should warn others about the times we were in (Ezekiel 33:6). I thought others who didn’t see things as we did were the ones who were deceived. I now realize that I was the one who was deceived back then.

The op asked the question of how your view influences your attitude. If you and your church were convinced that Satans little season had started would your attitude change?

I don't find contradiction in Amillennialism. I find it only in Premillennialism and Postmillennialism. There are some things that are difficult to understand, because what is written in the Old Testament is often vague, written with symbol or shadows. That means we must try to discern these things from the prophets of old in the same way we must try to discern the Revelation. That means we must try to understand what the symbolism and shadows and signs pertain to without getting too caught up with trying to figure out every single jot and tittle. Much of what is written in the Old Testament, like what is written in the book of Revelation must be spiritually discerned.

I believe those who follow the doctrine of Amillennialism are better at discerning the vagary of both Old Covenants Prophets and the book of Revelation. If you are asking, would I have the same attitude if I knew we were in Satan's little season that you had ten years ago, the answer is no, I would not. We are called to be faithful unto death. If we try to divorce ourselves from all that is going on around us, how is that remaining faithful unto death? I look at all that is happening in our world today, and I can honestly say I don't know if we are in Satan's little season yet, but I have my doubts. The thing that makes me doubt that we could be is hoping, and somewhat skeptically believing the Kingdom that Christ came to build is not yet complete. Satan won't get his little season until the mystery of God, i.e. completing the Kingdom as the Gospel goes unto the Gentiles is complete. Since the Gospel is still being proclaimed I doubt it will be when Satan is set free.

 

[parousia70]

Satan won't get his little season until the mystery of God, i.e. completing the Kingdom as the Gospel goes unto the Gentiles is complete. Since the Gospel is still being proclaimed I doubt it will be when Satan is set free.

As long as gentiles continue to be born, there will be gentiles who have not heard, and had the chance to respond to, the gospel.

Only after we've lived through a 15 or so year procreation "gap", where gentiles cease being born and every last baby from before that time has a chance to grow to the age of accountability, then we can know every gentile alive will have had the chance to hear the gospel and respond accountably. Only then can Matthew 24:14 finally be fulfilled.

So we watch. We Watch for the first day that no babies are born anywhere in the world, then we can start the countdown.

Unless of course Matthew 24:14 isn't to be taken literally.

 

[grafted branch]

If you are asking, would I have the same attitude if I knew we were in Satan's little season that you had ten years ago, the answer is no, I would not. We are called to be faithful unto death. If we try to divorce ourselves from all that is going on around us, how is that remaining faithful unto death?

I find that Amil are very sure of when and from what Satan is bound, most Amil say Satan is bound at the cross from allowing the gospel to go to the Gentiles. But Amils are very hesitant to describe how we can know when and if Satan is loosed. This is akin to saying we can tell when he’s in jail we just can tell when he’s out.

Many Amil use Matthew 10:5-6 to show the gospel was only going to the Jews at that time. One would think this would be a model of how it will be once Satan is loosed again if the Amil view is correct.

You say your attitude will not be like the attitude I previously had but you didn’t say whether your attitude would change or not when Satan is loosed. I’m curious, would you continue to preach the gospel to Gentiles? The 12 in Matthew 10:5-6 would not have been faithful if they would’ve preached to the Gentiles.

 

[rwb]

I find that Amil are very sure of when and from what Satan is bound, most Amil say Satan is bound at the cross from allowing the gospel to go to the Gentiles. But Amils are very hesitant to describe how we can know when and if Satan is loosed. This is akin to saying we can tell when he’s in jail we just can tell when he’s out.

It's not difficult to discern how the cross of Christ defeated Satan, and Christ's resurrection from the dead defeated death. The Bible tells us this.

Colossians 2:15 (KJV) And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

John 12:31-33 (KJV) Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. This he said, signifying what death he should die.

Hebrews 2:14 (KJV) Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

The binding of Satan was to prevent him from keeping the nations (Gentiles) in fear of death that Satan had held them in. With the fear of death removed through the proclaiming of the Gospel in the power of the Spirit for all who believe, Satan is no longer able to hold the nations in fear of bondage to death.

Every human having no knowledge of Christ is held in bondage to fear of death. Fallen man instinctively knows he is destined to die. This is the fate of all mankind. Prior to the Gospel being sent unto the nations (Gentiles) there was no proclamation of the Gospel, therefore the nations had no knowledge that the way to have everlasting life was through the Gospel, sent in the power of the Holy Spirit. This is how Christ's resurrection from the dead bound Satan.

Scripture doesn't tell us when the Kingdom Christ came to build will be complete after the thousand years are complete. That's when Satan will be freed to have his little season. We are only told that after TIME, symbolized a thousand years comes to an end is when Christ will return again. If the thousand symbolic years was literally one thousand years, we would know exactly when Satan is loosed, but the thousand years are not literal and symbolize TIME that extends from the first advent to Christ's second coming. It's deliberately left vague so that man could not know the exact timing of when heaven and earth will pass away, because after Satan has his little season Christ will return and heaven and earth will pass away.

Day in this verse can be twenty four hours, or Matthew may be saying of that age/time and hour no man or angel in heaven is given to know but the Father only knows.

Matthew 24:35 (KJV) Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
Matthew 24:36 (KJV) But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Many Amil use Matthew 10:5-6 to show the gospel was only going to the Jews at that time. One would think this would be a model of how it will be once Satan is loosed again if the Amil view is correct.

Why would Amill believe that since the Bible tells us during his little season Satan will be permitted to deceive the nations (Gentiles) as he had done prior to his binding?

Revelation 20:8 (KJV) And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

You say your attitude will not be like the attitude I previously had but you didn’t say whether your attitude would change or not when Satan is loosed. I’m curious, would you continue to preach the gospel to Gentiles? The 12 in Matthew 10:5-6 would not have been faithful if they would’ve preached to the Gentiles.

When Satan is loosed again, will there be anyone left on this earth in unbelief to receive the Gospel? I truly do not have that answer. But since I cannot know when Satan will have his little season on this earth, I would pray that I might remain faithful to the very end. If through the Spirit I feel there are some who could be saved, then I pray to God that I will faithfully continue to tell whosoever about all that the Lord has done for me.

 

[grafted branch]

It's not difficult to discern how the cross of Christ defeated Satan, and Christ's resurrection from the dead defeated death. The Bible tells us this.

I see this and have no issues with the fact that Satan was defeated at the cross. It’s just that what ever you think the binding of Satan is, in Revelation 20, you should also admit that its temporary because after the 1,000 years Satan is no longer bound. The work done at the cross is not temporary. What ever Satan was bound from prior to the millennium he can do after the millennium.

When Satan is loosed again, will there be anyone left on this earth in unbelief to receive the Gospel? I truly do not have that answer. But since I cannot know when Satan will have his little season on this earth, I would pray that I might remain faithful to the very end. If through the Spirit I feel there are some who could be saved, then I pray to God that I will faithfully continue to tell whosoever about all that the Lord has done for me.

I agree that when we face an unknown future our attitude should be to pray for guidance and for Gods will to be done.

To summarize, as an Amil, eschatology doesn’t change your attitude because it can’t be known whether we are in Satans little season or not. Would this be correct?

 

[rwb]

I see this and have no issues with the fact that Satan was defeated at the cross. It’s just that what ever you think the binding of Satan is, in Revelation 20, you should also admit that its temporary because after the 1,000 years Satan is no longer bound. The work done at the cross is not temporary. What ever Satan was bound from prior to the millennium he can do after the millennium.

I've never said otherwise. Satan is no longer bound when the seventh (final) trumpet begins to sound. That will be when the thousand years, symbolizing time will be finished, therefore the time designated for proclaiming the Gospel unto all the nations of the earth will be no more, because that is when the mystery of God should be finished. The mystery is that Gentiles of faith as well as Jews of faith will be saved by grace through faith as the Gospel is proclaimed unto all the world. This mystery was not made known before the cross and resurrection. The message of the Messiah to come had been limited primarily to Israel before the advent of Christ.

Paul shows us the mystery hidden in days of old is revealed through the advent of Christ. Showing us that Gentiles of faith will be grafted together with Jews of faith, and when the fulness of the Gentiles are grafted in with the remnant of faithful Jews together "all Israel shall be saved." Together, where there is neither Jew nor Gentile, they will be called the "Israel of God" (Gal 6).

Romans 11:25 (KJV) For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Romans 11:26 (KJV) And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Since the loosing of Satan seems to mark the end of the age/era of the Gospel, I don't know if there will be any unbelievers on the earth during this time who would to the Gospel of Christ for salvation??? I believe that if we are in doubt, believers still left alive on earth during this time must be prepared through strong faith to give up their lives for the Gospel if that is what God has called for us to do.

I agree that when we face an unknown future our attitude should be to pray for guidance and for Gods will to be done.

To summarize, as an Amil, eschatology doesn’t change your attitude because it can’t be known whether we are in Satans little season or not. Would this be correct?

I really don't believe the attitude of Christians should change according to any season. We should always be prepared in season and out of season to by grace through faith give up our lives for Christ.

2 Timothy 4:2 (KJV) Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

 

[grafted branch]

Since the loosing of Satan seems to mark the end of the age/era of the Gospel, I don't know if there will be any unbelievers on the earth during this time who would to the Gospel of Christ for salvation??? I believe that if we are in doubt, believers still left alive on earth during this time must be prepared through strong faith to give up their lives for the Gospel if that is what God has called for us to do.

So this is the problem, at least for me, you can describe exactly what the binding of Satan is but can’t give an exact description of what the loosening of Satan is.
According to Revelation 20:8 Satan will be actively deceiving people. Unless you think the elect are being deceived it would seem that there are still some unsaved people during this time.

I really don't believe the attitude of Christians should change according to any season. We should always be prepared in season and out of season to by grace through faith give up our lives for Christ.

Remember in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 the falling away comes first and then the man of sin is revealed. Would you say if we know for certain that Satan is loosed because it has been revealed, we should still keep the same attitude about preaching the gospel?

 

[rwb]

So this is the problem, at least for me, you can describe exactly what the binding of Satan is but can’t give an exact description of what the loosening of Satan is.
According to Revelation 20:8 Satan will be actively deceiving people. Unless you think the elect are being deceived it would seem that there are still some unsaved people during this time.

Remember in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 the falling away comes first and then the man of sin is revealed. Would you say if we know for certain that Satan is loosed because it has been revealed, we should still keep the same attitude about preaching the gospel?

I've already answered these concerns of yours GB. I don't think there is anything more I can say that will be anything less than going in circles. Many Blessings.

 

[DavidPT]

So this is the problem, at least for me, you can describe exactly what the binding of Satan is but can’t give an exact description of what the loosening of Satan is.
According to Revelation 20:8 Satan will be actively deceiving people. Unless you think the elect are being deceived it would seem that there are still some unsaved people during this time.

What I find relevant is the fact that those meant in Revelation 20:8, they would all obviously be alive during the millennium. So, what is their status during the millennium? Is satan not deceiving them, thus they are among the saved? Or is satan deceiving them, thus they are among the lost?

 

[grafted branch]

What I find relevant is the fact that those meant in Revelation 20:8, they would all obviously be alive during the millennium. So, what is their status during the millennium? Is satan not deceiving them, thus they are among the saved? Or is satan deceiving them, thus they are among the lost?

That’s a good question, I personally don’t think the binding of Satan is specifically related to whether a person becomes saved or not. Amil on the other hand tend to relate his binding to Gentiles becoming saved which creates issues.

 

[rwb]

What I find relevant is the fact that those meant in Revelation 20:8, they would all obviously be alive during the millennium. So, what is their status during the millennium? Is satan not deceiving them, thus they are among the saved? Or is satan deceiving them, thus they are among the lost?

The deceived of Rev 8 are called Gog and Magog which means antichrist and antichristian. John says Satan deceives the nations, called Gog and Magog AFTER the thousand years are expired. Would that not make them unbelievers alive on the earth after the seventh trumpet begins to sound? IOW alive during Satan's little season.

 

[DavidPT]

The deceived of Rev 8 are called Gog and Magog which means antichrist and antichristian. John says Satan deceives the nations, called Gog and Magog AFTER the thousand years are expired. Would that not make them unbelievers alive on the earth after the seventh trumpet begins to sound? IOW alive during Satan's little season.

Assuming this scenario shouldn't it also mean they were already antichristian before the 7th trumpet sounds? Keeping in mind, meaning billions perhaps. Per this scenario, before the 7th trumpet sounds, we would be in the time of the millennium. Which means billions are already antichristian before satan is even loosed. Is it possible for billions to be antichristian without it involving satan deceiving any of them? And what does Revelation 20:3 record? It records this---that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled

How then did billions become antichristian during Amil's proposed millennium when the text is telling us that satan can't deceive nations during the millennium?