How does Eschatology effect attitude? (for men)

All Glory To God

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Women are welcome to read and comment but the audience this is intended for is men and as this post is written the reasons will be become apparent.

So most churches do not have a strong view on Eschatology or do not teach on this subject at all and I think it is profoundly importantly to shaping one's views.

There are three main views of Eschatology: premillennialism, Amillennialism and Postmillennialism. All of these relating to when Christs second coming and the final judgement of humanity. The different views place Christs return at different time periods and this is where the effect comes into play. If people believe Christ will come back tomorrow, they develop an apathetic uncaring attitude. But is his coming back tomorrow? Or his coming back in 500 years? Better yet 5000 years?

I used to be an Amillennialist which is what the Protestant Reformers believed. It holds that the Roman Catholic Church is the harlot of Babylon and the Pope is the Anti-Christ. I have changed my view to Postmillennialism but I still think a reasonable case for Amillennialism can be made. And I am completely against premillennialism as there's too many inconsistencies to make it work and frankly a fraud to fool Christians into supporting Jews to keep the state of Israel intact. I am not against Israel, I am neutral party in this conflict, but we should separate out Gods business and mans business.

I noted that when I was an Amillennialist and had the sense of pending doom of God over me, that Christ was returning any second I really did not care much about anything. And why should I or any Man care if he thinks the end is so near? Since I changed my view to Postmillennialism it has given me a completely different perspective and changed the helpless mentality into endurance mentality. Many Christians are waiting for Christ to come and recuse them with his return but what if he doesn't? I think the message from Christ was endurance. Deny yourself, Pick up your cross and follow me, daily. Endure persecution and suffering and receive your reward.

We hand our nations, churches, civil rights over to people who are our enemies because we do not care about tomorrow. Because we think there will be no tomorrow. The Christian crusaders did not hand over Jerusalem against the invading Muslims. The Protestant Reformers did not give up on their divorce from Rome despite all the hardship they went through. At this point I encourage you to look up Postmillennialism.

The message is this-Christian men need to prepared to take a stand and fight for what's theirs or have everything stripped from them. Our enemies have no Grace. The choice is yours. And Eschatology effects our minds.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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According to Jesus in the first chapter of Acts, the times set in the Father's power are not for us to know.

So I would agree that Eschatology affects our minds in the sense of causing confusion. i.e. God didn't author any of the ideas we may subscribe to regarding this area of study.

This confusion over something that isn't even our responsibility (spreading the good news is) results in division, and as Jesus said: a house divided against itself falls.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Women are welcome to read and comment but the audience this is intended for is men and as this post is written the reasons will be become apparent.

So most churches do not have a strong view on Eschatology or do not teach on this subject at all and I think it is profoundly importantly to shaping one's views.

There are three main views of Eschatology: premillennialism, Amillennialism and Postmillennialism. All of these relating to when Christs second coming and the final judgement of humanity. The different views place Christs return at different time periods and this is where the effect comes into play. If people believe Christ will come back tomorrow, they develop an apathetic uncaring attitude. But is his coming back tomorrow? Or his coming back in 500 years? Better yet 5000 years?

I used to be an Amillennialist which is what the Protestant Reformers believed. It holds that the Roman Catholic Church is the harlot of Babylon and the Pope is the Anti-Christ. I have changed my view to Postmillennialism but I still think a reasonable case for Amillennialism can be made. And I am completely against premillennialism as there's too many inconsistencies to make it work and frankly a fraud to fool Christians into supporting Jews to keep the state of Israel intact. I am not against Israel, I am neutral party in this conflict, but we should separate out Gods business and mans business.

I noted that when I was an Amillennialist and had the sense of pending doom of God over me, that Christ was returning any second I really did not care much about anything. And why should I or any Man care if he thinks the end is so near? Since I changed my view to Postmillennialism it has given me a completely different perspective and changed the helpless mentality into endurance mentality. Many Christians are waiting for Christ to come and recuse them with his return but what if he doesn't? I think the message from Christ was endurance. Deny yourself, Pick up your cross and follow me, daily. Endure persecution and suffering and receive your reward.

We hand our nations, churches, civil rights over to people who are our enemies because we do not care about tomorrow. Because we think there will be no tomorrow. The Christian crusaders did not hand over Jerusalem against the invading Muslims. The Protestant Reformers did not give up on their divorce from Rome despite all the hardship they went through. At this point I encourage you to look up Postmillennialism.

The message is this-Christian men need to prepared to take a stand and fight for what's theirs or have everything stripped from them. Our enemies have no Grace. The choice is yours. And Eschatology effects our minds.

I'm definitely NOT a Theonomist ... and how does Eschatology affect my attitude?

I have hope in Christ since He is the Alpha and Omega, and the best part is, I don't have to fight for that truth.

He just IS, WAS, and IS TO COME, always, without my help. :cool:
 
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Maria Billingsley

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Women are welcome to read and comment but the audience this is intended for is men and as this post is written the reasons will be become apparent.

So most churches do not have a strong view on Eschatology or do not teach on this subject at all and I think it is profoundly importantly to shaping one's views.

There are three main views of Eschatology: premillennialism, Amillennialism and Postmillennialism. All of these relating to when Christs second coming and the final judgement of humanity. The different views place Christs return at different time periods and this is where the effect comes into play. If people believe Christ will come back tomorrow, they develop an apathetic uncaring attitude. But is his coming back tomorrow? Or his coming back in 500 years? Better yet 5000 years?

I used to be an Amillennialist which is what the Protestant Reformers believed. It holds that the Roman Catholic Church is the harlot of Babylon and the Pope is the Anti-Christ. I have changed my view to Postmillennialism but I still think a reasonable case for Amillennialism can be made. And I am completely against premillennialism as there's too many inconsistencies to make it work and frankly a fraud to fool Christians into supporting Jews to keep the state of Israel intact. I am not against Israel, I am neutral party in this conflict, but we should separate out Gods business and mans business.

I noted that when I was an Amillennialist and had the sense of pending doom of God over me, that Christ was returning any second I really did not care much about anything. And why should I or any Man care if he thinks the end is so near? Since I changed my view to Postmillennialism it has given me a completely different perspective and changed the helpless mentality into endurance mentality. Many Christians are waiting for Christ to come and recuse them with his return but what if he doesn't? I think the message from Christ was endurance. Deny yourself, Pick up your cross and follow me, daily. Endure persecution and suffering and receive your reward.

We hand our nations, churches, civil rights over to people who are our enemies because we do not care about tomorrow. Because we think there will be no tomorrow. The Christian crusaders did not hand over Jerusalem against the invading Muslims. The Protestant Reformers did not give up on their divorce from Rome despite all the hardship they went through. At this point I encourage you to look up Postmillennialism.

The message is this-Christian men need to prepared to take a stand and fight for what's theirs or have everything stripped from them. Our enemies have no Grace. The choice is yours. And Eschatology effects our minds.
Hello :wave: woman making a comment...
To deny oneself is the act of humbleness. Fighting for " what is yours" is contrary to Love, which is the core message of the Gospel.
Blessings.
 
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Hammster

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Women are welcome to read and comment but the audience this is intended for is men and as this post is written the reasons will be become apparent.

So most churches do not have a strong view on Eschatology or do not teach on this subject at all and I think it is profoundly importantly to shaping one's views.

There are three main views of Eschatology: premillennialism, Amillennialism and Postmillennialism. All of these relating to when Christs second coming and the final judgement of humanity. The different views place Christs return at different time periods and this is where the effect comes into play. If people believe Christ will come back tomorrow, they develop an apathetic uncaring attitude. But is his coming back tomorrow? Or his coming back in 500 years? Better yet 5000 years?

I used to be an Amillennialist which is what the Protestant Reformers believed. It holds that the Roman Catholic Church is the harlot of Babylon and the Pope is the Anti-Christ. I have changed my view to Postmillennialism but I still think a reasonable case for Amillennialism can be made. And I am completely against premillennialism as there's too many inconsistencies to make it work and frankly a fraud to fool Christians into supporting Jews to keep the state of Israel intact. I am not against Israel, I am neutral party in this conflict, but we should separate out Gods business and mans business.

I noted that when I was an Amillennialist and had the sense of pending doom of God over me, that Christ was returning any second I really did not care much about anything. And why should I or any Man care if he thinks the end is so near? Since I changed my view to Postmillennialism it has given me a completely different perspective and changed the helpless mentality into endurance mentality. Many Christians are waiting for Christ to come and recuse them with his return but what if he doesn't? I think the message from Christ was endurance. Deny yourself, Pick up your cross and follow me, daily. Endure persecution and suffering and receive your reward.

We hand our nations, churches, civil rights over to people who are our enemies because we do not care about tomorrow. Because we think there will be no tomorrow. The Christian crusaders did not hand over Jerusalem against the invading Muslims. The Protestant Reformers did not give up on their divorce from Rome despite all the hardship they went through. At this point I encourage you to look up Postmillennialism.

The message is this-Christian men need to prepared to take a stand and fight for what's theirs or have everything stripped from them. Our enemies have no Grace. The choice is yours. And Eschatology effects our minds.
I have a 100+ year plan. Which is why I pray for my children and grandchildren and great grandchildren. Etc. I’m looking at 10,000 plus in 250 years. That’s good progress for the Kingdom.

And that’s just a start.
 
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DavidPT

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There is zero chance PostMil can be the correct position. It's not even worthy of entertaining, let alone adopting that view. Why? For one, this world gets worse, not better, before Christ returns. It is only after Christ returns that the world starts getting better.

One way that some distort this fact is by interpreting great tribulation recorded in Matthew 21 to already be behind us, that it has already been fulfilled in the first century. But if that interpretation is wrong, and clearly it is, and that Matthew 24:21 is involving the end of this age instead, how can the following be describing a world that is getting better before Christ returns---For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be(Matthew 24:21)---and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time(Daniel 12:1)?

And does not Daniel 12 record that a resurrection follows this time of trouble? How do PostMils propose this resurrection recorded in Daniel 12:2 takes place without Christ bodily returning first?

Look what the following says, as another example.

Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. Does that sound like a world that has been getting better before Christ returns, that there are those which are destroying the earth prior to His returning?
 
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Hammster

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There is zero chance PostMil can be the correct position. It's not even worthy of entertaining, let alone adopting that view. Why? For one, this world gets worse, not better, before Christ returns. It is only after Christ returns that the world starts getting better.

One way that some distort this fact is by interpreting great tribulation recorded in Matthew 21 to already be behind us, that it has already been fulfilled in the first century. But if that interpretation is wrong, and clearly it is, and that Matthew 24:21 is involving the end of this age instead, how can the following be describing a world that is getting better before Christ returns---For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be(Matthew 24:21)---and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time(Daniel 12:1)?

And does not Daniel 12 record that a resurrection follows this time of trouble? How do PostMils propose this resurrection recorded in Daniel 12:2 takes place without Christ bodily returning first?

Look what the following says, as another example.

Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. Does that sound like a world that has been getting better before Christ returns, that there are those which are destroying the earth prior to His returning?
Has evangelism stopped, and I just haven’t heard about it?
 
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All Glory To God

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There is zero chance PostMil can be the correct position. It's not even worthy of entertaining

No, there really is a chance it is correct. And the reason I reject premillennialism, off the top of my head are these:

-Pretrib claims there is a ''third'' temple to be built but the Bible does not say this. It is a fabrication and perhaps why so many Jews are supportive of this view. Because you have to have the temple mount to have the temple. And you have to have the land to have the temple mount. No temple, no chirst is what deceived Christians believe.
-Pretrib teaches of an Anti-Christ but there is no Anti-Christ mentioned in the olivet discourse.
-The 70 week ''Clock'' is stopped on 69 weeks. No convectional countdown works like this. Only a fraudulent one.
-All the Books in the Bible are written to an historical audience. So when Christ talks about a ''great tribulation'' and ''no stone will left on top of another'' it makes sense he is talking directly to his disciples about the destruction of the Temple.

There's plenty more but I have to limit for now.

In the spirit of the thread, why don't you tell us your position, if you changed your eschatological views and what effect it had on you attitude.
 
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All Glory To God

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I think everything can be narrowed down to "knowing God". Which cannot be done without a relationship with Him.

Believe God, love God, trust God.

This sounds like a subtle call for inactivity? Put it all in the hands of God and let it be.

I would take you seriously @Douggg but you posted hundreds and thousands of messages in the eschatology forum. A person doesn't do that unless they are serious about something. So obviously you care about something.
 
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Douggg

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This sounds like a subtle call for inactivity? Put it all in the hands of God and let it be.

I would take you seriously @Douggg but you posted hundreds and thousands of messages in the eschatology forum. A person doesn't do that unless they are serious about something. So obviously you care about something.
If that is what you got from... "Believe God, love God, trust God".... sounds like your message in your opening post is more important to you. Test yourself to see if you are inactive or active in your heart - can you say it everyday? A person who doesn't love God, can't do it. But for them who do, it is inspiration and life to the soul.

Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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You tell me?

I did tell you, brother! I have hope in Christ, and I know He needs no help from me for Him to remain who and what He is; He doesn't need my help, whether it be political or otherwise.

I appreciate your zeal, really, but I'd be careful about hitching up and orienting emotions that come from riding the waves of Eschatological study. To do so can cause a confusing situation for all of us. It can also cause misunderstanding. :cool:
 
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All Glory To God

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I appreciate your zeal, really, but I'd be careful about hitching our emotions that flow out from riding the waves of Eschatological study. That can become a confusing situation.

I wasn't asking for your advice, I was inviting people to think on and contribute to the subject of how eschatology effects peoples attitude or outlook.

If you can't answer the point directly, please don't bother posting anymore. I want this to be a serious thread for serious posters.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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I wasn't asking for your advice, I was inviting people to think on and contribute to the subject of how eschatology effects peoples attitude or outlook.

If you can't answer the point directly, please don't bother posting anymore. I want this to be a serious thread for serious posters.

I did answer you with the answer that I thought was the kind of answer you were asking about.

You asked "How does Eschatology affect my attitude?" And I told you that it gives me hope (which also, in my saner moments, makes me want to be a nicer guy ;)).

Is this direct enough?
 
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All Glory To God

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I did answer you with the answer that I thought was the kind of answer you were asking about.

You asked "How does Eschatology affect my attitude?" And I told you that it gives me hope (which also, in my saner moments, makes me want to be a nicer guy ;)).

Is this direct enough?

You say you are not a theonomist and have hope in Christ. Well, just about every Christian has hope in Christ so I don't really see your point.

No, it does not make much sense to me in regard to my OP. But it doesn't matter.

But if you want to continue, try unpacking your position, what you believe, if you want to make more sense.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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You say you are not a theonomist and have hope in Christ. Well, just about every Christian has hope in Christ so I don't really see your point.

No, it does not make much sense to me in regard to my OP. But it doesn't matter.

But if you want to continue, try unpacking your position, what you believe, if you want to make more sense.

My position on Eschatology? Honestly, I don't have a definitive position on Eschatology, but I've studied it quite a bit over the last few decades, and I tend to have a somewhat general, less specific view of it all.

Because of this, I concentrate more on hermeneutics and much less on systematization where theology, especially Eschatology, is concerned. In fact, in line with Kierkegaard, I don't really even "believe" our theology can be easily systematized, or at least not as much of it as has been. (Which isn't to say that I don't enjoy reading a good Systematic Theology and such).

Unlike other theological issues such as "the Trinity" or "the Nature of the Church," etc., I tend not to get into debates over Eschatological matters. I just prefer to have general conversations on it.

Still, I can appreciate your desire for all of us to stand strong in the Lord. I know we all need that kind of exhortation. :cool:
 
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No, there really is a chance it is correct. And the reason I reject premillennialism, off the top of my head are these:

-Pretrib claims there is a ''third'' temple to be built but the Bible does not say this. It is a fabrication and perhaps why so many Jews are supportive of this view. Because you have to have the temple mount to have the temple. And you have to have the land to have the temple mount. No temple, no chirst is what deceived Christians believe.
-Pretrib teaches of an Anti-Christ but there is no Anti-Christ mentioned in the olivet discourse.
-The 70 week ''Clock'' is stopped on 69 weeks. No convectional countdown works like this. Only a fraudulent one.
-All the Books in the Bible are written to an historical audience. So when Christ talks about a ''great tribulation'' and ''no stone will left on top of another'' it makes sense he is talking directly to his disciples about the destruction of the Temple.

There's plenty more but I have to limit for now.

In the spirit of the thread, why don't you tell us your position, if you changed your eschatological views and what effect it had on you attitude.


While all Pretribbers are Premil, not all Premils are Pretribbers. I'm Premil and reject those same Pretrib teachings.
Even if Premil is the incorrect position, maybe it is, maybe it isn't, you were still way better off being an Amil since that view is at least somewhat convincing to a degree, meaning my opinion of it though I still reject it for the time being, while PostMil isn't.

As to the 70th week, I do believe it is still future, or at least the final half. But not in the same way Pretribbers take it to mean. I don't take it to be involving a literal rebuilt temple in Jerusalem. But I do take it to be involving the temple recorded in 2 Thessalonians 2:4, except I don't take that temple in a literal sense. Since the 2nd temple was destroyed in 70 AD, there has to be another temple to fulfill 2 Thessalonians 2:4 and what is recorded in Matthew 24:15.

And since I'm convinced the 2nd coming is recorded in Matthew 24, verse 30 for one, and that 2 Thessalonians 2:4 plays a major role in the end of this age prior to the 2nd coming, I find it unreasonable that Jesus just skipped over that part in the Discourse in Matthew 24 and instead went from the destruction of the 2nd temple to that of His 2nd coming 2000 years or so later. Assuming His 2nd coming happens during our lifetime.

Luke 21 records the destruction of Jerusalem, which means it also records the destruction of the 2nd temple. Matthew 24 and Mark 13 record neither. Their focus is on the temple involving 2 Thessalonians 2:4, not the 2nd temple in the first century.

Even if I switched to Amil someday, I would still interpret everything above the same way. I wouldn't change my view on any of that because I switched to Amil.

The only eschatological view I have changed over the years, as far as I can remember, is that I went from being Pretrib for years to that of Post Trib. I have been Post Trib for maybe 30 years or more now. I'm guessing since the late 80s, early 90s.

How did that effect my attitude? For one, I finally realized there is no escaping what is going to take place on this earth before the 2nd coming, meaning Matthew 24:21/Daniel 12:1, unless one is already dead before it gets that bad. There is not going to be a rapture that whisks one away prior to it getting that bad.
 
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