Classical Dispensationalist Only How does Acts 2 dispensationalism treat the teachings of Jesus?

[food4thought]

I recently posted a thread here that asked about Jesus' teaching in Matthew 5 regarding the keeping of the Law. The answers I got varied a bit, but the majority seemed to say that this teaching of the Lord was not directed at the Church... is this the way Acts 2 dispensationalists teach, or is that more a mid or post Acts position?

I thought I had resolved this issue in my mind, but the idea of relegating Jesus' teachings to a different dispensation keeps bothering me.

Looking forward to your answers;
Thanks in advance!
Michael

 

[food4thought]

 

[Dan Perez]

I recently posted a thread here that asked about Jesus' teaching in Matthew 5 regarding the keeping of the Law. The answers I got varied a bit, but the majority seemed to say that this teaching of the Lord was not directed at the Church... is this the way Acts 2 dispensationalists teach, or is that more a mid or post Acts position?

I thought I had resolved this issue in my mind, but the idea of relegating Jesus' teachings to a different dispensation keeps bothering me.

Looking forward to your answers;
Thanks in advance!
Michael

Hi and there is the Genesis position , the Acts 2 position and the Acts 9 positionand some call it the MID-ACTS POSITION and the Acts 11 position and the Acts 13 position and then the Acts 28 position !!

The Acts 2 position seem to me acceptable to the DOCTRINES of Christ in Matt 10 and in Heb 6:1-6 and in Heb 9:10 !!

dan p

 

[crossnote]

I recently posted a thread here that asked about Jesus' teaching in Matthew 5 regarding the keeping of the Law. The answers I got varied a bit, but the majority seemed to say that this teaching of the Lord was not directed at the Church... is this the way Acts 2 dispensationalists teach, or is that more a mid or post Acts position?

I thought I had resolved this issue in my mind, but the idea of relegating Jesus' teachings to a different dispensation keeps bothering me.

Looking forward to your answers;
Thanks in advance!
Michael

Michael, my understanding of Mt 5 is that it is a mirror of what the fruit of a regenerate life should look like...but not something done for merit.

 

[food4thought]

The Acts 2 position seem to me acceptable to the DOCTRINES of Christ in Matt 10 and in Heb 6:1-6 and in Heb 9:10 !!

dan p

Hi Dan! Thanks for the response!

But I'm not following how Matthew 10 relates to this. I think I can see how Hebrews 6:1-6 and Hebrews 9:10 fit, but I'm not entirely certain of even that. Could you explain what you mean?

Thanks in advance;
Michael

 

[food4thought]

Michael, my understanding of Mt 5 is that it is a mirror of what the fruit of a regenerate life should look like...but not something done for merit.

Hi crossnote! Thanks for taking the time to reply!

I am conflicted specifically over Matthew 5:19... Jesus clearly instructs us to obey ALL of the Law and Prophets, yet Paul says we are not under the Law at all. Is Jesus' teaching on this subject applicable to the church or not? Mid-Acts and Acts 28 dispensationalists tell me that Jesus was teaching under a different dispensation than the church age... is that how Acts 2 dispensationalists view it, or do they have a different explanation for Matthew 5:19? I have tried looking at the different commentaries that are from an Acts 2 perspective (Bible Knowledge Commentary, Walvoord, Chafer, etc.), but they are mostly silent on this verse. A little help (either from your own view or from a link) would be very helpful for me to find out how to look at Jesus' teachings, particularly in Matthew.

Thanks in advance;
Michael

 

[crossnote]

Hi crossnote! Thanks for taking the time to reply!

I am conflicted specifically over Matthew 5:19... Jesus clearly instructs us to obey ALL of the Law and Prophets, yet Paul says we are not under the Law at all. Is Jesus' teaching on this subject applicable to the church or not? Mid-Acts and Acts 28 dispensationalists tell me that Jesus was teaching under a different dispensation than the church age... is that how Acts 2 dispensationalists view it, or do they have a different explanation for Matthew 5:19? I have tried looking at the different commentaries that are from an Acts 2 perspective (Bible Knowledge Commentary, Walvoord, Chafer, etc.), but they are mostly silent on this verse. A little help (either from your own view or from a link) would be very helpful for me to find out how to look at Jesus' teachings, particularly in Matthew.

Thanks in advance;
Michael

I'm not a strict Acts 2 dispensationalist or Mid Acts etc., I try to stay closer to the Berean model as found in Acts 17:11 and as a result I have a somewhat dispensational view,
On Mat 5:19...

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. (Mat 5:17-20)

My take on this would be similar to the Book of Romans, where we see all men have failed when it comes to righteousness through law keeping. Jesus fulfilled the law in our stead. In consequence we do not relax the law but magnify it by pointing to Christ's righteousness rather than our own. We do them (albeit imperfectly) through the new life in us, molding and shaping us in His image as well as giving us a heart to please Him. (Phil 2:13) This type of righteousness far exceeds the self-righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees.

 

[Dan Perez]

I recently posted a thread here that asked about Jesus' teaching in Matthew 5 regarding the keeping of the Law. The answers I got varied a bit, but the majority seemed to say that this teaching of the Lord was not directed at the Church... is this the way Acts 2 dispensationalists teach, or is that more a mid or post Acts position?

I thought I had resolved this issue in my mind, but the idea of relegating Jesus' teachings to a different dispensation keeps bothering me.

Looking forward to your answers;
Thanks in advance!
Michael

Hi andn therevare many differences between Acts 2 and Acts 9:6 !

Acts 2 believes in WATER BAPTISM !

Acts 9 believes in a ONE BAPTISMA / BAPTIZER !

Acts 2 begins the Body of Christ in Acts 2 a Jewish FEAST DAY !!

Acts 9 begins the Body of Christ with Paul !, with a new message , and a NEW DISPENSATION 1 Cor 9:17 !!

Acts 2 position is still under the Law of Moses , Acts 12:20 and Gal 2:14 !

Acts 2 says that the word CHURCH / EKKLESIA means Acts 2 !!

Acts 9 , EKKLESIA mans a CALLED OUT ASSEMBLY and not CHURCH !!

Just some points of differences !!

There are many more !

dan p

 

[nolidad]

I recently posted a thread here that asked about Jesus' teaching in Matthew 5 regarding the keeping of the Law. The answers I got varied a bit, but the majority seemed to say that this teaching of the Lord was not directed at the Church... is this the way Acts 2 dispensationalists teach, or is that more a mid or post Acts position?

I thought I had resolved this issue in my mind, but the idea of relegating Jesus' teachings to a different dispensation keeps bothering me.

Looking forward to your answers;
Thanks in advance!
Michael

I will try to be brief in my reply!

Prior to the nation of Israel committing the unpardonable sin in Mt. 12:24 Jesus was preaching the gospel of the Kingdom. IOW Jesus was announcing (as John the Baptist did) the arrival of the promised king and His kingdom had arrived in Him. The beatitudes, while we most definitely can apply the principles in them to our lives, were for the Jews in light of the impending establishment of the kingdom.

After Matthew 12, the entire focus and methodology of Jesus ministry changed! The offewr of teh Kingdom was removed from that generation and will be given to a future Jewish generation. Jesus now no longer taught openly but spoke to the masses in parables. He was now preparing the Apostles for the task of building the church under His headship!

So prior to the events of MAtt. 12:24 All the teaching and miracles were to establish Jesus as the Jewish Messiah and bring Israel to a decision to accept or reject Him.

Hope this helps

 

[Dan Perez]

Hi Dan! Thanks for the response!

But I'm not following how Matthew 10 relates to this. I think I can see how Hebrews 6:1-6 and Hebrews 9:10 fit, but I'm not entirely certain of even that. Could you explain what you mean?

Thanks in advance;
Michael

Hi and I should have written what Matt 10:6-5-9 is saying !!

#1 , We always , need to see what is the CONTEXT , how , where and when !!

#2 , Verse 5 , Jesus commanded the 12 , in verse 6 to ONLY GO TO THE LOST SHEEP OF ISRAEL !!
#3 , And in verse 7 to preach , saying The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand !!

#4 , And verse 8 tells all what the Kingdom of Heaven is , Heal the sick , raise the dead , cast out demons , cleanse the Lepers , freely ye have received , freely give !!

This is the NEAR VIEW of Jesus and apostles earthly ministry !!

The FAR VIEW is in Matt 24:14 We see the Gospel of the Kingdom preached will be preached to all the world and the SHALL THE END COME / HEKO is in the Greek FUTURE TENSE , ACTIVE VOICE and in the INDICATIVE MOOD !!

dan p

 

[food4thought]

I will try to be brief in my reply!

Prior to the nation of Israel committing the unpardonable sin in Mt. 12:24 Jesus was preaching the gospel of the Kingdom. IOW Jesus was announcing (as John the Baptist did) the arrival of the promised king and His kingdom had arrived in Him. The beatitudes, while we most definitely can apply the principles in them to our lives, were for the Jews in light of the impending establishment of the kingdom.

Never heard that before... it does seem to make sense in the context.

After Matthew 12, the entire focus and methodology of Jesus ministry changed! The offewr of teh Kingdom was removed from that generation and will be given to a future Jewish generation. Jesus now no longer taught openly but spoke to the masses in parables. He was now preparing the Apostles for the task of building the church under His headship!

Again, that seems to make sense.

So prior to the events of MAtt. 12:24 All the teaching and miracles were to establish Jesus as the Jewish Messiah and bring Israel to a decision to accept or reject Him.

Again, that makes sense. I'll have to do some further study to verify it, though.

Hope this helps

Yes, that was very helpful, thank you.

 

[food4thought]

Hi and I should have written what Matt 10:6-5-9 is saying !!

#1 , We always , need to see what is the CONTEXT , how , where and when !!

#2 , Verse 5 , Jesus commanded the 12 , in verse 6 to ONLY GO TO THE LOST SHEEP OF ISRAEL !!
#3 , And in verse 7 to preach , saying The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand !!

#4 , And verse 8 tells all what the Kingdom of Heaven is , Heal the sick , raise the dead , cast out demons , cleanse the Lepers , freely ye have received , freely give !!

This is the NEAR VIEW of Jesus and apostles earthly ministry !!

The FAR VIEW is in Matt 24:14 We see the Gospel of the Kingdom preached will be preached to all the world and the SHALL THE END COME / HEKO is in the Greek FUTURE TENSE , ACTIVE VOICE and in the INDICATIVE MOOD !!

dan p

Ok, thanks. Now I understand what you meant.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I am conflicted specifically over Matthew 5:19... Jesus clearly instructs us to obey ALL of the Law and Prophets, yet Paul says we are not under the Law at all.

Paul was trained and taught by Jesus perfectly.

He agrees with Jesus all the time, and with the other messengers of Yahuweh also (all the Apostles) concerning the Gospel of Jesus.

Without understanding either Jesus or Paul, they might seem to contradict.

That is where the trouble (conflicted ideas) lies.

 

[nolidad]

Never heard that before... it does seem to make sense in the context.



Again, that seems to make sense.



Again, that makes sense. I'll have to do some further study to verify it, though.



Yes, that was very helpful, thank you.

If you wish to do a great study on it,

Come and See - Topics

Then select: The Basis of the Second Coming of the Messiah (003) it is free to download.

there are several excellent books by the same author they are about $30 each if you are interested.

One is on Eschatology and the other is the Life of Christ from a Jewish Perspective.( 4 volumes)

He is one of the greatest teachers I have ever sat under!

 

[food4thought]

If you wish to do a great study on it,

Come and See - Topics

Then select: The Basis of the Second Coming of the Messiah (003) it is free to download.

there are several excellent books by the same author they are about $30 each if you are interested.

One is on Eschatology and the other is the Life of Christ from a Jewish Perspective.( 4 volumes)

He is one of the greatest teachers I have ever sat under!

Thanks. I read 003, and I am intrigued. Adding this to my favorites.

 

[Dan Perez]

I recently posted a thread here that asked about Jesus' teaching in Matthew 5 regarding the keeping of the Law. The answers I got varied a bit, but the majority seemed to say that this teaching of the Lord was not directed at the Church... is this the way Acts 2 dispensationalists teach, or is that more a mid or post Acts position?

I thought I had resolved this issue in my mind, but the idea of relegating Jesus' teachings to a different dispensation keeps bothering me.

Looking forward to your answers;
Thanks in advance!
Michael

Hi and I believe that the hardest verse for the Acts 2 believers is in Heb 6: and reads , Therefore LEAVING / APHIEMI whichnis in the S AORIST TENSE they are to forever LEAVE and FORSAKE the teaching of Christ and to forsake Repentance , Dead Works ., and of Faith toward God and it continues in verse 2 , to also FORSAKE the Teaching of BAPTISMS Laying on of Hands and the Resurrection of the Dead !!

dan p

 

[food4thought]

Paul was trained and taught by Jesus perfectly.

He agrees with Jesus all the time, and with the other messengers of Yahuweh also (all the Apostles) concerning the Gospel of Jesus.

Without understanding either Jesus or Paul, they might seem to contradict.

That is where the trouble (conflicted ideas) lies.

Hi yeshuaslavejeff! How do you reconcile Jesus' teaching in Matthew 5:19 with Paul's teachings in places like Romans 7-8 and Galatians 4:21-31?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Hi yeshuaslavejeff! How do you reconcile Jesus' teaching in Matthew 5:19 with Paul's teachings in places like Romans 7-8 and Galatians 4:21-31?

No need to.
There's no contradiction.

 

[nolidad]

Hi and I believe that the hardest verse for the Acts 2 believers is in Heb 6: and reads , Therefore LEAVING / APHIEMI whichnis in the S AORIST TENSE they are to forever LEAVE and FORSAKE the teaching of Christ and to forsake Repentance , Dead Works ., and of Faith toward God and it continues in verse 2 , to also FORSAKE the Teaching of BAPTISMS Laying on of Hands and the Resurrection of the Dead !!

dan p

Not difficult at all when one understands what is happening to cause this to be written.

Many Jews who were beginning to identify with the Jewish believers were undergoing severe persecution byu the Jews. It was also the time of increased Roman persecution against the Christians as well.

Based on teh text and the history we can conclude the following:

1. The writer was addressing unbelievers who had heard and understood teh gospel.
2. They had not made a commitment to Christ.
3. They were brought to teh place where they fully knew the law and Jewish system could not save.
4. They were considering going back to adhering to the Law.
5. The writer warned that if they did- there would be no hope for them. to know that Jesus is the only Savior and understand such, and to willingly turn your back to return to the law- invokes a curse.
6. They knew Jesus' death was the only propitiation and rejected it for the law.
7. Teh wqriter then says Jesus would have to be crufied all over again !

 

[Danthemailman]

Les Feldick is a dispensationalist (appears to be an Acts 2 dispensationalist) who also has a TV show, "Through the Bible with Les Feldick."

Questions and Answers from the Bible (Part B)

Matthew McGee is a dispensationalist (appears to be a mid Acts dispensationalist).

Israel's Kingdom Gospel and Our Grace Gospel