How does absolution work, exactly?

[seebs]

Originally posted by Nilhil Obstat
"�As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.� And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, �Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained�" (John 20:21�23).

So Jesus gave the power to the Church to determine what is sinful and what is not.

Ahh, but does this power go to:
1. The original Apostles only.
2. The original Church only.
3. Anyone filled with the holy spirit.
4. Ministers who have a line of apostolic succession back to the original apostles.
5. Ministers whose teachings are consistent with the truth of Christian doctrine, even if they started a ministry based only on the Bible's authority.
6. Specific people chosen by God, but with no obvious way for us to tell who is covered.

Also, is this prescriptive or descriptive? Could the Pope declare that to prefer Pepsi over Coke is a sin, and if he did, would it be true? In other words, is the power granted the power of discerning what things are sinful in God's eyes, or the power of making a thing sinful which was previously not sinful?

 

[VOW]

To Seebs:

4. Ministers who have a line of apostolic succession back to the original apostles.

Door Number 4 is the right one.

That's why Apostolic Succession is such a BIG DEAL with the Catholic Church. The authority for hearing confession, anointing, consecrating the bread and wine, all of that is obtained through the Apostolic Succession.


Peace,
~VOW

 

[Nilhil Obstat]

Originally posted by seebs
Could the Pope declare that to prefer Pepsi over Coke is a sin, and if he did, would it be true?

No.

Originally posted by seebs
In other words, is the power granted the power of discerning what things are sinful in God's eyes, or the power of making a thing sinful which was previously not sinful?

Well...I think it is safe to assume that we all start from the same set of rules - the 10 Commandments.

This is also the place that the Popes, Cardinals, Bishops, Priests, etc...start from when deciding what is sin and what is not. God gave us a fairly specific set of rules which can be used to discern what constitue sin.

Maybe drinking Pepsi over Coke cannot be considered a sin - but what if you are working on Sunday at the Pepsi bottling company?

Is that not a sin laboring on the Sabbath - not keeping the Sabbath holy? Also, is it not putting money before God? Man, that's two out of 10....

 

[Caedmon]

The thing that confuses me is... how does someone determine what is, and what is not violating "Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy"? For instance, I've heard some Catholics say that it's ok to work on the Sabbath, and that "God understands". Is this right or wrong?

 

[VOW]

To Joe:

What are your intentions behind working on Sunday?

Are you at a second job, to save up for a bigger down payment on a snazzy new car?

Is Sunday your "regular" work day, for the job you do which is your livelihood?

Are you a doctor/nurse/firefighter/police officer?

Is your job one which permits families to spend time together? (for instance, a restaurant, or a movie theater)

Like everything else, Joe, it's the intent. And to fulfill your Sunday Mass Obligation, you can attend a Saturday evening Mass, or a Sunday evening Mass, so you can fit your work hours around that. If you have a lengthy commute and need to work both Saturday and Sunday, talk it over with the parish priest. He's not there to beat you to a bloody pulp with a baseball bat. His entire function is to assist you on your journey to God.

If you are missing your Sunday Mass obligation because you want to sleep late, or you don't "feel" like going to Church, or you think you can worship better on your own, or any other "excuses" then it's time to sit down and have a serious talk with yourself.


Peace,
~VOW

 

[Caedmon]

Originally posted by VOW
To Joe:

What are your intentions behind working on Sunday?

Are you at a second job, to save up for a bigger down payment on a snazzy new car?

Is Sunday your "regular" work day, for the job you do which is your livelihood?

Are you a doctor/nurse/firefighter/police officer?

Is your job one which permits families to spend time together? (for instance, a restaurant, or a movie theater)

Like everything else, Joe, it's the intent. And to fulfill your Sunday Mass Obligation, you can attend a Saturday evening Mass, or a Sunday evening Mass, so you can fit your work hours around that. If you have a lengthy commute and need to work both Saturday and Sunday, talk it over with the parish priest. He's not there to beat you to a bloody pulp with a baseball bat. His entire function is to assist you on your journey to God.

If you are missing your Sunday Mass obligation because you want to sleep late, or you don't "feel" like going to Church, or you think you can worship better on your own, or any other "excuses" then it's time to sit down and have a serious talk with yourself.


Peace,
~VOW

lol, I don't work at all. It was just a hypothetical. In fact, I've been getting on to my mom, because she's been luring me home weekends, and not been getting up and going to church with me, which is why she wants me there. But fortunately, she's gone with me the last two times. And I really like going to church. I'm not going to plan to go to church during the week, and then just not go because I don't "feel like it". That's just dishonest.

Also, I only went to the parish once. They have an unusual situation. They don't have a local priest, so a father from the northeast flies down on saturday evenings. It's a bit discontinuous, but hey, they're blessed to even be having weekly mass.

Usually, I just go to my parents' Baptist church, or I find a good Baptist or Presbyterian one to go to where I am.

 

[seebs]

I generally figure it depends on why you're working. I will work on Sunday, but only if I'll be more rested for having done it; so, for instance, if the continued unfinished state of a project bugs me, I might finish it on a Sunday.

 

[Stormy]

What are your intentions behind working on Sunday?

Excuse me.

I work my butt off on Sunday getting my daycare in shape for the beginning of another week. I do this, knowing that I have the blessing of God. Jesus loved children as much as I do.

But I do not work on the Sabbath! In case you have forgotten, the Sabbath is Saturday. It always has been and always will be!

Thank you all for making me feel better about worshiping God alone.

 

[seebs]

I have absolutely no confidence in the accuracy of our calendars after all this time.

I think it is probably sufficient to devote a good few solid hours to God, and to remember the Sabbath - which I see as the day on which we let our employees rest, should we have any employees. And believe you me, I have never made an ox do a lick of work on the day after it worked for six days straight.

 

[isshinwhat]

The Catechism quotes this passage from St. Augustine, in regards to working on Sunday.

The charity of truth seeks holy leisure- the necessity of charity accepts just work.[St. Augustine, De civ. Dei 19, 19: PL 41, 647.]

What each one of us must decide is what are our motives for working on Sunday? Are they just? If so, then God is accepting of our situation. If, however, we are failing in our obligation just because we don't want to go, we don't prefer to worship with people, or because, as VOW said, we are working overtime to buy a new, red sports car, then perhaps we need to take a long look at ourselves. Because I don't like it, or because I don't want to are rarely justified reasons, in and of themselves. That is something I, myself, have really struggled with at various times. In fact, just last month I had a hard time getting myself to Mass, for several reasons. But this one saying keeps popping into my head:

Remember, there was one Mass Christ didn't want to attend, too. Thanks be to God that He did.

 

[isshinwhat]

2181. "The Sunday Eucharist is the foundation and confirmation of all Christian practice. For this reason the faithful are obliged to participate in the Eucharist on days of obligation, unless excused for a serious reason (for example, illness, the care of infants) or dispensed by their own pastor.[Cf. CIC, can. 1245.] Those who deliberately fail in this obligation commit a grave sin. "

God Bless,

Neal

 

[VOW]

To Stormy:

I work my butt off on Sunday getting my daycare in shape for the beginning of another week. I do this, knowing that I have the blessing of God. Jesus loved children as much as I do.

Then your work on Sunday is part of your workweek, the job you do to support yourself, and your family. There's no shame in that. Not only that, but a daycare provider allows OTHERS to work and support THEIR families. And I personally thank God for caring, loving childcare providers.

But I do not work on the Sabbath! In case you have forgotten, the Sabbath is Saturday. It always has been and always will be!

This wasn't a discussion on what day of the week Sabbath occurs. It is generally recognized by most Christian faiths that our Sabbath celebration occurs on Sunday, the first day of the week, and the day our Lord rose from the dead.

If you'd like, you may open a new thread on Sabbath Day discussions.



Peace be with you,
~VOW