How do you test if you are saved? What can a believer do if he doesn't see fruit?

[prophecy_uk]

Anna: "That sounds like a recipe for some really hard-core, deceptive, insulated Christian egoism. I’ve been there. Right after my conversion, I felt like I was instantaneously the wisest person in the world, and no one needed to teach me anything. Years and years of hard knocks, disappointments, painful growth, humiliation, and pain later, I realize that that’s not how salvation works. At all.

The instantaneous mountain-top feeling after a conversion is common. But if we allow ourselves to stay there and fool ourselves into thinking we’re already at our goal, we’ll never descend the mountain and we’ll never truly grow. We’ll just brow-beat others and throw our weight around, and confuse our ego with the Holy Spirit."




Anna: "I felt like I was instantaneously the wisest person in the world, and no one needed to teach me anything.

"I realize that that’s not how salvation works. At all."



The fear of the Lord is that instantaneous beginning of wisdom, and a good understanding have all they who do His commandments.

Luke writes for us, because as he testifies, h had perfect understanding of all things from the very first..


Psalm 111:10 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.

Luke 1:3 It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,





If we want to know also about why no one needs to teach us anything, that is taught too..

1 John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

John 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Ephesians 4:20 But ye have not so learned Christ;
21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:

Jeremiah 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Hebrews 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Galatians 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 1:16 Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;
17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

 

[prophecy_uk]

If you wanted to know how to achieve the goal, of Heavens Kingdom I can tell you, it surely is not by growing and trying and failing, it is by belief in Jesus Christ righteously dying for us, rising for us again, to open our eyes from being like flies to fly to their death in the fire, or a bird hasting to the snare, and not knowing it is for it's life, by hearing the deceivers, so hear Christ ( the Word of Truth ) only in this time of the devils last deceit on earth and all hearing the deceiver...

Proverbs 7:21 With her much fair speech she caused him to yield, with the flattering of her lips she forced him.
22 He goeth after her straightway, as an ox goeth to the slaughter, or as a fool to the correction of the stocks;
23 Till a dart strike through his liver; as a bird hasteth to the snare, and knoweth not that it is for his life.
24 Hearken unto me now therefore, O ye children, and attend to the words of my mouth.
25 Let not thine heart decline to her ways, go not astray in her paths.
26 For she hath cast down many wounded: yea, many strong men have been slain by her.
27 Her house is the way to hell, going down to the chambers of death.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you⁠—unless indeed you fail the test?
— 2 Corinthians 13:5

How do you test yourself? And what is a believer to do if he fails the test?

Edit:

Is this like looking if you have fruit in your life? I hear it all the time if you don't have fruit in your life you are not a born again believer. Ok, let's say you notice you don't bear fruit, then what? No one seems to say what to do if you don't bear fruit.

Edit 2.

I see from the responses that some of you are giving me personal advice. That's very kind of you, but it's not that much that I'm looking for advice to myself (then I would have posted it in "Request for advice"). I'm trying to understand what Paul means and want to know what a believer can do that notices he doesn't bear fruit.

There is no test. There is only believing what the Bible says about salvation.

Trust in Jesus Christ, the Son of God, for salvation is the only means to salvation.

The verse quoted isn't about testing to see if you are saved, but rather, examining to see if you are living the Christian faith.

 

[prophecy_uk]

Freegrace: "There is no test. There is only believing what the Bible says about salvation.

Trust in Jesus Christ, the Son of God, for salvation is the only means to salvation.

The verse quoted isn't about testing to see if you are saved, but rather, examining to see if you are living the Christian faith."




Hereby know we, that we are in Him, by keeping His word, for the love of God to be perfected in us. The liar keeps not His commandments, and no truth is in them, then..




1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.


The born of God, keep themselves for the wicked one to not touch them, and the Son of God came, and gave us an understanding ( through the Spirit in us) to know Him that is true, ( the Spirit of truth/Spirit of Christ) and know that we are in Him that is true, in Jesus Christ..

1 John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.
20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.


That is being in the faith ( of the Son of God Jesus Christ) and that Jesus Christ is in us, unless we be morally abandoned ( as all without Christ in them are)..


2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

 

[Rapture Bound]

FreeGrace2 stated, "There is no test. There is only believing what the Bible says about salvation. Trust in Jesus Christ, the Son of God, for salvation is the only means to salvation."

The issue at hand is not the means by which a person receives salvation - trusting in Jesus Christ, it is centered around how a person can know that they have actually experienced that offered salvation. In other words, how a person can know that they are actually participating in a genuine relationship with God, and have been justified or accepted in His sight.

Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you⁠—unless indeed you fail the test?
— 2 Corinthians 13:5

It appears to me that the test of genuineness is clearly implied in the language of the text... "that Jesus Christ is in you - unless indeed you fail the test?'....the implication...[and if you do fail the test, Jesus Christ is not in you]. It really seems unnecessary for the bracketed implication to be added to the text.

To say, "there is no test" is truly nonsensical when text clearly states that there is one.
Perhaps what you are meaning to say is this -- the nature of the test involves nothing except trusting in Christ as being our righteousness and grounds for our acceptance before God. However, although this is certainly gospel truth, it is not Paul's exclusive focus here.

Here we are not attempting to more clearly define the meaning of "saving faith" or the relationship between "faith and works", but simply addressing the question of how a person can know they have "savingly believed" and have in fact been justified before God.

There are no doubt many who profess and imagine themselves to be true followers of Jesus Christ, but are merely counterfeits. The reality of self-delusion must be guarded against. As a safe-guard against this deception, the Apostle Paul exhorts all who consider themselves children of God to undergo a sincere soul-searching examination of their spiritual condition and standing before God.

In this way, some may discover, and face head on, the hard truth that they are yet in need of redemption. This will now place them in a position in which they can truly search for the true and "full-orbed" meaning of salvation, with the goal of each of them truly embracing and receiving the true gospel message, thereby entering into a justified state.

 

[prophecy_uk]

Rapture bound; "Here we are not attempting to more clearly define the meaning of "saving faith" or the relationship between "faith and works", but simply addressing the question of how a person can know they have "savingly believed" and have in fact been justified before God."


Gods word is better than mans.


Regarding saving faith, and works and faith, which are all about justification and being glorified by God.


This is the way to not be saved ( hearing the deceivers) who cannot cease from sin, are beguiling and unstable, and have forsaken the right way ( they even speak against it)..

2 Peter 2:14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;


They allure you, through the lust of the flesh, with great swelling own words of vanity, promising you liberty in those words, they are revealed as servants

It was better they never knew the way of righteousness ( without doing unrighteousness) than turning from the holy commandment delivered to them, back to their filth and vomit.. of corruption.


2 Peter 2:18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you⁠—unless indeed you fail the test?
— 2 Corinthians 13:5

How do you test yourself? And what is a believer to do if he fails the test?

Edit:

Is this like looking if you have fruit in your life? I hear it all the time if you don't have fruit in your life you are not a born again believer. Ok, let's say you notice you don't bear fruit, then what? No one seems to say what to do if you don't bear fruit.

Edit 2.

I see from the responses that some of you are giving me personal advice. That's very kind of you, but it's not that much that I'm looking for advice to myself (then I would have posted it in "Request for advice"). I'm trying to understand what Paul means and want to know what a believer can do that notices he doesn't bear fruit.

You have to ask yourself what fruit actually is...

I worried once about the fruit I may be lacking because I personally didn't see much change in myself at one point... so I asked my husband if he saw any changes in me since I became Christian and he said: "well, you don't pray facing Mecca anymore..."

So okay... lol... that was something, a definite change...

But I think Scripture tells us what the fruit of a saved person is specifically, and that is love of the brethren.

"We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love each other. Anyone who does not love remains in death." 1 John 3:14

If we don't love our Christian brethren, we haven't passed to life. This doesn't mean we won't occasionally get frustrated with each other, but we will love one another. Pray for each other, do good to one another as we are able etc. Love.

 

[prophecy_uk]

Hazel: But I think Scripture tells us what the fruit of a saved person is specifically, and that is love of the brethren.
"We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love each other. Anyone who does not love remains in death." 1 John 3:14

If we don't love our Christian brethren, we haven't passed to life. This doesn't mean we won't occasionally get frustrated with each other, but we will love one another. Pray for each other, do good to one another as we are able etc. Love."



Able, is this too:


Romans 12:18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.

Mark 9:23 Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.




Now we know we are able, or we shall not see the Lord..


Hebrews 12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;
16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.
17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.

 

[prophecy_uk]

Which is better, peoples words, or Gods ?

Having faith in the Lord, we know His words and not our own, to give none offence, to not blame the ministry ( or blaspheme the Lord) even as the Apostles example and the testimony of the truth, they pleased all men in all thins, not seeking their own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved..



1 Corinthians 10:32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:
33 Even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved.



Romans 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Hazel: But I think Scripture tells us what the fruit of a saved person is specifically, and that is love of the brethren.
"We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love each other. Anyone who does not love remains in death." 1 John 3:14

If we don't love our Christian brethren, we haven't passed to life. This doesn't mean we won't occasionally get frustrated with each other, but we will love one another. Pray for each other, do good to one another as we are able etc. Love."



Able, is this too:


Romans 12:18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.

Mark 9:23 Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.




Now we know we are able, or we shall not see the Lord..


Hebrews 12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;
16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.
17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.

Just a head's up, but if you don't click on reply or otherwise tag me ( using the @ and my screen name) I don't get a notification that you've given me a reply...

So, I apologize for not seeing your reply. And yes, trying to live peaceably with one another is Godly... certainly we won't always agree on matters, but it's in the "how" we share our disagreements.

I believe brother @zoidar to have the fruit of the Spirit, seen in how he acts toward his brothers and sisters in Christ... I would attest to this as standing before God.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you⁠—unless indeed you fail the test?
— 2 Corinthians 13:5

How do you test yourself? And what is a believer to do if he fails the test?

Edit:

Is this like looking if you have fruit in your life? I hear it all the time if you don't have fruit in your life you are not a born again believer. Ok, let's say you notice you don't bear fruit, then what? No one seems to say what to do if you don't bear fruit.

Edit 2.

I see from the responses that some of you are giving me personal advice. That's very kind of you, but it's not that much that I'm looking for advice to myself (then I would have posted it in "Request for advice"). I'm trying to understand what Paul means and want to know what a believer can do that notices he doesn't bear fruit.

Oh this is easy, Got Christ? Sure I went to church that one time, remember?

 

[zoidar]

Oh this is easy, Got Christ? Sure I went to church that one time, remember?

Not sure exactly what you mean.

 

[prophecy_uk]

hazel: "I believe brother @zoidar to have the fruit of the Spirit, seen in how he acts toward his brothers and sisters in Christ... I would attest to this as standing before God"




Yes and I believe not in the kisses of the enemy, but the wounds of a friend are faithful, in rebuke that is testified to be abandoned by all now ( speaking their flattery to ears that itch)..


Proverbs 27:6 Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.

Proverbs 27:5 Open rebuke is better than secret love.

Psalm 141:5 Let the righteous smite me; it shall be a kindness: and let him reprove me; it shall be an excellent oil, which shall not break my head: for yet my prayer also shall be in their calamities.

2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 stated, "There is no test. There is only believing what the Bible says about salvation. Trust in Jesus Christ, the Son of God, for salvation is the only means to salvation."

The issue at hand is not the means by which a person receives salvation - trusting in Jesus Christ, it is centered around how a person can know that they have actually experienced that offered salvation.

Paul is challenging the believers to examine their own lifestyles to see IF they are living the faith.

To say, "there is no test" is truly nonsensical when text clearly states that there is one.

It says "examine". Not all examinations are tests.

But, let's go with this. Are you filled with the Spirit? How do you know? What is the evidence? So, you have to examine your lifestyle to see if there is any evidence.

Perhaps what you are meaning to say is this -- the nature of the test involves nothing except trusting in Christ as being our righteousness and grounds for our acceptance before God. However, although this is certainly gospel truth, it is not Paul's exclusive focus here.

Paul is clearly NOT telling people to see if they are saved. Throughout both epistles Paul repeatedly affirms the saved status of that congregation.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Yes and I believe not in the kisses of the enemy, but the wounds of a friend are faithful, in rebuke that is testified to be abandoned by all now ( speaking their flattery to ears that itch)..

And the Bible prescribes exactly how to confront a struggling brother or sister... first, we must not do so hypocritically (removing first our own log) then, we approach them with love, bringing up their sin at first privately etc etc.

If someone is not able to treat their brethren in the manner Scripture proscribes, then I would say the person doing the "rebuking" hasn't removed said log from their own eye in order to see clearly the sin of their brother.

The point of pointing out someone's sin, is to guide them back onto the path. Not to shame anyone.

 

[prophecy_uk]

hazel: "then, we approach them with love, bringing up their sin at first privately etc etc.

The point of pointing out someone's sin, is to guide them back onto the path. Not to shame anyone."



1 Corinthians 15:34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

Ephesians 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

Ephesians 5:12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.


1 Timothy 5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

1 Timothy 5:24 Some men's sins are open beforehand, going before to judgment; and some men they follow after.
25 Likewise also the good works of some are manifest beforehand; and they that are otherwise cannot be hid.

 

[prophecy_uk]

hazel: " then, we approach them with love"


Yes, and we do know what God says about love, how they appear to love with their mouth, but their heart is a different matter..

Ezekiel 33:31 And they come unto thee as the people cometh, and they sit before thee as my people, and they hear thy words, but they will not do them: for with their mouth they shew much love, but their heart goeth after their covetousness.

 

[prophecy_uk]

More on flatterers:

Psalm 55:21 The words of his mouth were smoother than butter, but war was in his heart: his words were softer than oil, yet were they drawn swords.

Psalm 28:3 Draw me not away with the wicked, and with the workers of iniquity, which speak peace to their neighbours, but mischief is in their hearts.

Proverbs 26:28 A lying tongue hateth those that are afflicted by it; and a flattering mouth worketh ruin.

Psalm 12:2 They speak vanity every one with his neighbour: with flattering lips and with a double heart do they speak.

Psalm 12:3 The Lord shall cut off all flattering lips, and the tongue that speaketh proud things:

 

[Hazelelponi]

hazel: " then, we approach them with love"


Yes, and we do know what God says about love, how they appear to love with their mouth, but their heart is a different matter..

Ezekiel 33:31 And they come unto thee as the people cometh, and they sit before thee as my people, and they hear thy words, but they will not do them: for with their mouth they shew much love, but their heart goeth after their covetousness.

We can play battle of Scripture all day:

“’These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are merely human rules.’ And he called the people to him and said to them, “Hear and understand: What goes into someone’s mouth does not defile them, but what comes out of their mouth, that is what defiles them.” Matthew 15:8-12

And also:

"By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.” John 13:35

Certainly we correct what is sin, both in ourselves, as well as our brethren, but if it's devoid of love, it's not of God...

Satan knows Scripture well, but he twists it into something it's not.

 

[prophecy_uk]

Hazel: "We can play battle of Scripture all day:

“’These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are merely human rules.’ And he called the people to him and said to them, “Hear and understand: What goes into someone’s mouth does not defile them, but what comes out of their mouth, that is what defiles them.” Matthew 15:8-12"



Or, you may see that the Pharisees were offended in that which Jesus just spoke to them...



Matthew 15:12 Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying?


Because Christ is a rock of offence to the disobedient AS THEY WERE APPOINTED..



1 Peter 2:8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.




"By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.” John 13:35



As you mentioned elsewhere, when Muslim you were against Apostle Paul.

The love of the Lord, needs to be understood, it is not in the muslim book, that is hatred, as it leaves you in your sins, by not turning to the Messiah for forgiveness of them.

God did exile Israel, and does set the poor on high, and casts the rich empty and away..


Psalm 107:39 Again, they are minished and brought low through oppression, affliction, and sorrow.
40 He poureth contempt upon princes, and causeth them to wander in the wilderness, where there is no way.
41 Yet setteth he the poor on high from affliction, and maketh him families like a flock.
42 The righteous shall see it, and rejoice: and all iniquity shall stop her mouth.
43 Whoso is wise, and will observe these things, even they shall understand the lovingkindness of the Lord.

Luke 1:50 And his mercy is on them that fear him from generation to generation.
51 He hath shewed strength with his arm; he hath scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts.
52 He hath put down the mighty from their seats, and exalted them of low degree.
53 He hath filled the hungry with good things; and the rich he hath sent empty away.