How do you test if you are saved? What can a believer do if he doesn't see fruit?
- Thread starter zoidar
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D taylor: " If a believer looks to his works for assurance, he can never have absolute assurance since no believers works and life are flawless or perfect."
The assurances are told, speaking directly against them, does not make them void just not acknowledged/believed..
1 John 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
1 John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.
20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
D Taylor: "Can this get any clearer than stated by these verses ( note they are not place in any specific order)
“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.
Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life
And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst."
“What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?”
Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”
“I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”
Some verses to compliment yours given..
Titus 1:15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
2 Timothy 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
2 Peter 2:But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.
Revelation 2:13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.
Revelation 3:8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.
The assurances are told, speaking directly against them, does not make them void just not acknowledged/believed..
1 John 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
1 John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.
20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
D Taylor: "Can this get any clearer than stated by these verses ( note they are not place in any specific order)
“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.
Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life
And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst."
“What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?”
Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”
“I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”
Some verses to compliment yours given..
Titus 1:15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
2 Timothy 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
2 Peter 2:But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.
Revelation 2:13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.
Revelation 3:8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.
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DaDaBrothers
Active Member
"You don't think"? You think that because you "don't think anyone can" is enough to prove that it is impossible? So is it what you "think" wath decides wether or not anyone can do "what I say we are to do"? Are you the Judge of all things by chance? Is what you "think" more true than what God thinks? Do you even believe the word of God? Or just what you "think"? Do you think that because of what you "think", the word of God is not true anymore?
Doesn't the bible say to keep His word? You "don't think anyone can" keep His word? What you "think" does not change the word of God, just because you "think no one can" keep His word doesn't mean that "no one can" keep His word, you are not God here ok? Neither is what you "think" the absolute truth, you can "think" anything you want, just don't "think" against the word of God. Because if you continue with that mindset you will never make it.
You "don't think anyone can" but did Jesus not do everything perfectly? What about the Apostles, could they do what "I say" we are to do"? How can you say you don't believe "anyone" can be righteous? Again do you even believe in the bible? Don't we have numerous perfect loyal servants of God like: Noah, Job, John the Baptist, James the Just, Cornelius. And there are plenty more righteous and just, all writen in the bible, you don't have to believe anyone other than God.
Why does the bible commands us to do those things then? If "don't think anyone can", while would they ask the "impossible" out of us? Why are there commandments to keep? Since you "don't think anyone can" keep them?
Your "thinking" will fail you, just believe in Jesus.
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Zoidar: "You never answered how one is born again to be able to do what you say we must do."
Then I will answer, wont I ?
I will also answer the thread title, how, or if you can test if you are saved, and if fruit is lacking ?
Seeing the testimony of Christ, and to stop questioning in the dark. To not flee from the light.
Or in another way, to approach to the light that no man can approach to....
1 Timothy 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
Is that not in answer as told earlier in this same thread, but the person did no realize what they are showing.
Here, it is asked...
John 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
John 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
John 6:43 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves.
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.
47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
Now, we see the answers, every man that has heard and has learned of the Father, goes to the Son of God, and the fruit they bear, is it not what God teaches them, learns them all His ways, to now be all His ways, and who stops questioning men instead, and what men stop giving men's answers here?
See again who teaches all things, the Father is the Son Christ, who we have heard Him and been taught by Him, which is every man that has heard, and has learned of the Father, which is he Holy Ghost teaching us all things, even as the Apostles of the Lord received it not of man, neither were taught it ( the Gospel of Christ) but by the revelation of Jesus Christ..
John 6:45 Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
Ephesians 4:20 But ye have not so learned Christ;
21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Galatians 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
Then I will answer, wont I ?
I will also answer the thread title, how, or if you can test if you are saved, and if fruit is lacking ?
Seeing the testimony of Christ, and to stop questioning in the dark. To not flee from the light.
Or in another way, to approach to the light that no man can approach to....
1 Timothy 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
Is that not in answer as told earlier in this same thread, but the person did no realize what they are showing.
Here, it is asked...
John 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
John 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
John 6:43 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves.
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.
47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
Now, we see the answers, every man that has heard and has learned of the Father, goes to the Son of God, and the fruit they bear, is it not what God teaches them, learns them all His ways, to now be all His ways, and who stops questioning men instead, and what men stop giving men's answers here?
See again who teaches all things, the Father is the Son Christ, who we have heard Him and been taught by Him, which is every man that has heard, and has learned of the Father, which is he Holy Ghost teaching us all things, even as the Apostles of the Lord received it not of man, neither were taught it ( the Gospel of Christ) but by the revelation of Jesus Christ..
John 6:45 Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
Ephesians 4:20 But ye have not so learned Christ;
21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Galatians 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
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It's not a problem what scripture says. I think, yes I think, the problem lies in how you understand scripture. No I don't think the apostles were perfect. We even see the apostles doing things that weren't perfect. Like Peter refusing to eat with Gentile Christians.
I think we are righteous through faith, not by how well we work.
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DaDaBrothers
Active Member
You understand that laying charges against God's elect is laying charges against God?
You're accusation of Peter as a sinner, is the same as accusing God of sin.
So it must be a false accusation, because God cannot sin. Neither can His elect.
Exodus 23:7 Keep thee far from a false matter; and the innocent and righteous slay thou not: for I will not justify the wicked.
The God of Israel does not justify sinners, nether the wicked, nor the guilty.
James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
If you really believe Jesus is King, you do as the King says, and the King said keep my commandments. If you dont work you are none of His servants.
Luke 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
So, your "thinking" has failed you once again, you should stick to what Scripture says.
You're accusation of Peter as a sinner, is the same as accusing God of sin.
So it must be a false accusation, because God cannot sin. Neither can His elect.
Exodus 23:7 Keep thee far from a false matter; and the innocent and righteous slay thou not: for I will not justify the wicked.
The God of Israel does not justify sinners, nether the wicked, nor the guilty.
James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
If you really believe Jesus is King, you do as the King says, and the King said keep my commandments. If you dont work you are none of His servants.
Luke 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
So, your "thinking" has failed you once again, you should stick to what Scripture says.
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Zoidar: " We even see the apostles doing things that weren't perfect. Like Peter refusing to eat with Gentile Christians.
I think we are righteous through faith, not by how well we work."
DaDaBrothers, do you not think Zoidar has a right to think, what he can think ?
It is true that Peter did not eat with Gentile believers, because it was not lawful for him to do so, would anyone expect Peter to know things, before the Lord revealed them to him, too? The same way as Zoidar my not know right now, that Peter was made known the cleansing of the Gentiles, then this changes our belief, when we are made to see by God, does it not ?
See Zoidar, and tell me, if it makes some sense, that Peter was unaware of the Lord granting the gift of the Holy Ghost onto the Gentiles, and now it was lawful ( in the laws of Christ for Peter to remain with the Gentiles as they are made one new man with the Jew believer ( even though the Jew believer keeps some of the customs of the Jews) Do you notice Zoidar, that the believers of the circumcision were against peter for breaking their laws of eating with the uncircumcised...
Acts 10:28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.
Acts 11:2 And when Peter was come up to Jerusalem, they that were of the circumcision contended with him,
3 Saying, Thou wentest in to men uncircumcised, and didst eat with them.
4 But Peter rehearsed the matter from the beginning, and expounded it by order unto them, saying,
5 I was in the city of Joppa praying: and in a trance I saw a vision, A certain vessel descend, as it had been a great sheet, let down from heaven by four corners; and it came even to me:
6 Upon the which when I had fastened mine eyes, I considered, and saw fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
7 And I heard a voice saying unto me, Arise, Peter; slay and eat.
8 But I said, Not so, Lord: for nothing common or unclean hath at any time entered into my mouth.
9 But the voice answered me again from heaven, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.
10 And this was done three times: and all were drawn up again into heaven.
11 And, behold, immediately there were three men already come unto the house where I was, sent from Caesarea unto me.
12 And the Spirit bade me go with them, nothing doubting. Moreover these six brethren accompanied me, and we entered into the man's house:
13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;
14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.
15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
Ephesians 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
Zoidar: I think we are righteous through faith, not by how well we work."
That is right Zoidar, so the answer is, we be not faithless as Thomas, doubted, but we be believing, as these things are written that we might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing we might have life through His name...
John 20:27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
I think we are righteous through faith, not by how well we work."
DaDaBrothers, do you not think Zoidar has a right to think, what he can think ?
It is true that Peter did not eat with Gentile believers, because it was not lawful for him to do so, would anyone expect Peter to know things, before the Lord revealed them to him, too? The same way as Zoidar my not know right now, that Peter was made known the cleansing of the Gentiles, then this changes our belief, when we are made to see by God, does it not ?
See Zoidar, and tell me, if it makes some sense, that Peter was unaware of the Lord granting the gift of the Holy Ghost onto the Gentiles, and now it was lawful ( in the laws of Christ for Peter to remain with the Gentiles as they are made one new man with the Jew believer ( even though the Jew believer keeps some of the customs of the Jews) Do you notice Zoidar, that the believers of the circumcision were against peter for breaking their laws of eating with the uncircumcised...
Acts 10:28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.
Acts 11:2 And when Peter was come up to Jerusalem, they that were of the circumcision contended with him,
3 Saying, Thou wentest in to men uncircumcised, and didst eat with them.
4 But Peter rehearsed the matter from the beginning, and expounded it by order unto them, saying,
5 I was in the city of Joppa praying: and in a trance I saw a vision, A certain vessel descend, as it had been a great sheet, let down from heaven by four corners; and it came even to me:
6 Upon the which when I had fastened mine eyes, I considered, and saw fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
7 And I heard a voice saying unto me, Arise, Peter; slay and eat.
8 But I said, Not so, Lord: for nothing common or unclean hath at any time entered into my mouth.
9 But the voice answered me again from heaven, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.
10 And this was done three times: and all were drawn up again into heaven.
11 And, behold, immediately there were three men already come unto the house where I was, sent from Caesarea unto me.
12 And the Spirit bade me go with them, nothing doubting. Moreover these six brethren accompanied me, and we entered into the man's house:
13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;
14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.
15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
Ephesians 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
Zoidar: I think we are righteous through faith, not by how well we work."
That is right Zoidar, so the answer is, we be not faithless as Thomas, doubted, but we be believing, as these things are written that we might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing we might have life through His name...
John 20:27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
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At least Paul said Peter stood condemned by hypocrisy. Didn't Peter have his vision in Acts 10 before this event occured described in Galatians?
But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. For prior to the coming of certain men from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he began to withdraw and hold himself aloof, fearing the party of the circumcision. The rest of the Jews joined him in hypocrisy, with the result that even Barnabas was carried away by their hypocrisy. But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in the presence of all, “If you, being a Jew, live like the Gentiles and not like the Jews, how is it that you compel the Gentiles to live like Jews?
— Galatians 2:11-14
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Zoidar: "At least Paul said Peter stood condemned by hypocrisy. Didn't Peter have his vision in Acts 10 before this event occured described in Galatians?
But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. For prior to the coming of certain men from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he began to withdraw and hold himself aloof, fearing the party of the circumcision. The rest of the Jews joined him in hypocrisy, with the result that even Barnabas was carried away by their hypocrisy. But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in the presence of all, “If you, being a Jew, live like the Gentiles and not like the Jews, how is it that you compel the Gentiles to live like Jews?
— Galatians 2:11-14"
Zoidar: "At least Paul said Peter stood condemned by hypocrisy."
People know the newer versions of the bible, are a little less reliable ( that is because we are in the most corrupted days at the end of the world right now)
Peter was to be blamed ( not condemned)
Because Peter and the Jews ran away ( from the Gentile believers) when the Jews ( believing Jews) could see them with the Gentile ( believers)
Paul had to correct the situation because people could have wrongly assumed this way was acceptable, when it was not. Paul then readdressed the situation, confirming how, we cannot be found sinners, by rebuilding again what was not done right. Also remember and being aware that this was first ( before Paul was called by Christ) Peters role of attending to the Gentiles, and Peter then had it revealed by the Lord how the Gentiles then were cleansed and accepted in God ( being given the Holy Ghost also)...
Galatians 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.
13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.
14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?
15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles,
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
Zoidar: "At least Paul said Peter stood condemned by hypocrisy."
Peter did no hypocrisy, and we know that, because there is no condemnation, to them in Christ Jesus, as the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us who walk after the Spirit ( and Peter was no longer walking by the flesh)..
Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
So nobody shall say anything to the charge of Gods elect ( it is their misunderstanding if they do and need to repent ?)
Who are they who condemn ? God justifies, and makes intercession for us at the right hand of God ( as he is God on the same throne)..
Romans 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
Lastly for us, the wicked cannot be justified, and the ones who condemn the just, are abomination to the Lord. ( if you acknowledge you may have misunderstood I will pray for your forgiveness, and I do not pray for many people normally)
Proverbs 17:15 He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the Lord.
But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. For prior to the coming of certain men from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he began to withdraw and hold himself aloof, fearing the party of the circumcision. The rest of the Jews joined him in hypocrisy, with the result that even Barnabas was carried away by their hypocrisy. But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in the presence of all, “If you, being a Jew, live like the Gentiles and not like the Jews, how is it that you compel the Gentiles to live like Jews?
— Galatians 2:11-14"
Zoidar: "At least Paul said Peter stood condemned by hypocrisy."
People know the newer versions of the bible, are a little less reliable ( that is because we are in the most corrupted days at the end of the world right now)
Peter was to be blamed ( not condemned)
Because Peter and the Jews ran away ( from the Gentile believers) when the Jews ( believing Jews) could see them with the Gentile ( believers)
Paul had to correct the situation because people could have wrongly assumed this way was acceptable, when it was not. Paul then readdressed the situation, confirming how, we cannot be found sinners, by rebuilding again what was not done right. Also remember and being aware that this was first ( before Paul was called by Christ) Peters role of attending to the Gentiles, and Peter then had it revealed by the Lord how the Gentiles then were cleansed and accepted in God ( being given the Holy Ghost also)...
Galatians 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.
13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.
14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?
15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles,
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
Zoidar: "At least Paul said Peter stood condemned by hypocrisy."
Peter did no hypocrisy, and we know that, because there is no condemnation, to them in Christ Jesus, as the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us who walk after the Spirit ( and Peter was no longer walking by the flesh)..
Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
So nobody shall say anything to the charge of Gods elect ( it is their misunderstanding if they do and need to repent ?)
Who are they who condemn ? God justifies, and makes intercession for us at the right hand of God ( as he is God on the same throne)..
Romans 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
Lastly for us, the wicked cannot be justified, and the ones who condemn the just, are abomination to the Lord. ( if you acknowledge you may have misunderstood I will pray for your forgiveness, and I do not pray for many people normally)
Proverbs 17:15 He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the Lord.
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DaDaBrothers
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I told him he can think whatever he wants, but when it comes to absolute truth, it doent matter what he thinks, is what God thinks. And keep in mind faith without works is dead, so it does matter how well you work, you must bear at least "thirtyfould" from the seed you have received, now how much that is exactly is up for debate, but the commandmants are a must do.
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DaDaBrothers
Active Member
Jesus parable: Parable of the sower, only the good ground is saved.
Matthew 13:8 But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.
Matthew 13:8 But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.
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I think what Jesus says in Matt 13:8 is figurative, saying that the seeds that fall into good ground bear much fruit.
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DaDaBrothers
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Luke 8:15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.
James 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
You must also understand the word.
Matthew 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
James 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
You must also understand the word.
Matthew 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
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Zoidar: "From where do you get that idea?"
From the same place that you got your idea Zoidar, to accuse the Lords dignities, and until you guys can confess and acknowledge all truth, why do you discuss some ?
2 Peter 2:10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.
Jude 1:8 Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.
Proverbs 21:28 A false witness shall perish: but the man that heareth speaketh constantly.
29 A wicked man hardeneth his face: but as for the upright, he directeth his way.
2 Timothy 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
Titus 1:1 Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;
That is the answer to your thread question, the ones with the Spirit can acknowledge all and deny nothing, but without the Spirit you deny through your works also.
Understanding or lack of it reveals everything in everyone, this is why you should begin to edify in love, but love is not in word or tongue, it is in deed and in truth, go and learn compassion and mercy, this is to all who hear this, and stop talking until you lose your souls. ( I will be leaving here and continuing in this very soon) DaDabrotherrs, you are making a mistake if you think you can tell someone, what God tells us, or does not tell us. I am giving all of these testimonies with one purpose..here it is again..
Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Revelation 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
Now, seeing as you think that thirtyfold is enough, as if it is a minimum, I can answer you, and this will be the last time, look again, and this time see Luke 8:8, the good ground will bare fruit, an hundredfold....
Luke 8:8 And other fell on good ground, and sprang up, and bare fruit an hundredfold. And when he had said these things, he cried, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
From the same place that you got your idea Zoidar, to accuse the Lords dignities, and until you guys can confess and acknowledge all truth, why do you discuss some ?
2 Peter 2:10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.
Jude 1:8 Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.
Proverbs 21:28 A false witness shall perish: but the man that heareth speaketh constantly.
29 A wicked man hardeneth his face: but as for the upright, he directeth his way.
2 Timothy 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
Titus 1:1 Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;
That is the answer to your thread question, the ones with the Spirit can acknowledge all and deny nothing, but without the Spirit you deny through your works also.
Understanding or lack of it reveals everything in everyone, this is why you should begin to edify in love, but love is not in word or tongue, it is in deed and in truth, go and learn compassion and mercy, this is to all who hear this, and stop talking until you lose your souls. ( I will be leaving here and continuing in this very soon) DaDabrotherrs, you are making a mistake if you think you can tell someone, what God tells us, or does not tell us. I am giving all of these testimonies with one purpose..here it is again..
Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Revelation 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
Now, seeing as you think that thirtyfold is enough, as if it is a minimum, I can answer you, and this will be the last time, look again, and this time see Luke 8:8, the good ground will bare fruit, an hundredfold....
Luke 8:8 And other fell on good ground, and sprang up, and bare fruit an hundredfold. And when he had said these things, he cried, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
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Sanctification and justification are one and the same. As you trust and grow and learn and replace your will and desires with His, this process is how God’s grace saves us, in Christ. It’s a synergy between our will and His. Our faith is not just a moment in time. It must continue, and we realistically exercise faith daily, if we are any kind of Christian at all.
We exercise faith when we pray, read the Scripture, and trust in Christ, daily. But faith must also have works to be able to save us. What kind of works? The ones that result when we follow Christ, and not ourselves, or the world. These are the fruits God is looking for. It may or may not look like an emotional change. Christians often struggle with dark or upsetting thoughts. The true battle is when we press on through those thoughts and keep living for Him, even when it hurts.
Which, still, is going to involve both faith and works, in our own circumstances.
We exercise faith when we pray, read the Scripture, and trust in Christ, daily. But faith must also have works to be able to save us. What kind of works? The ones that result when we follow Christ, and not ourselves, or the world. These are the fruits God is looking for. It may or may not look like an emotional change. Christians often struggle with dark or upsetting thoughts. The true battle is when we press on through those thoughts and keep living for Him, even when it hurts.
Which, still, is going to involve both faith and works, in our own circumstances.
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Anna: " As you trust and grow and learn and replace your will and desires with His, this process is how God’s grace saves us, in Christ."
We do not trust, nor grow, nor learn, then replace our will, it is not that process, it is instead as testified, God chooses and we then know His will (instantly as seen in the Apostle Paul) which is also seeing the just one, and is hearing the voice of His mouth ( through the Spirit given into us and the new covenant written in our hearts/the law of Christ in a new soft heart, in the mind of Christ and in a heart that perceives).
That i armed with the same mind of Christ then, to no longer live to the will of man, but now ( immediately and right away) to the will of God..
Acts 22:14 And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.
1 Peter 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.
All other talk is predicted:
2 Peter 2:18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
Jude 1:16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.
Ephesians 4:113 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
We do not trust, nor grow, nor learn, then replace our will, it is not that process, it is instead as testified, God chooses and we then know His will (instantly as seen in the Apostle Paul) which is also seeing the just one, and is hearing the voice of His mouth ( through the Spirit given into us and the new covenant written in our hearts/the law of Christ in a new soft heart, in the mind of Christ and in a heart that perceives).
That i armed with the same mind of Christ then, to no longer live to the will of man, but now ( immediately and right away) to the will of God..
Acts 22:14 And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.
1 Peter 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.
All other talk is predicted:
2 Peter 2:18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
Jude 1:16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.
Ephesians 4:113 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
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You know that all who have been born again are elect? We are elect (if born again), just like Paul and Peter were elect.
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That sounds like a recipe for some really hard-core, deceptive, insulated Christian egoism. I’ve been there. Right after my conversion, I felt like I was instantaneously the wisest person in the world, and no one needed to teach me anything. Years and years of hard knocks, disappointments, painful growth, humiliation, and pain later, I realize that that’s not how salvation works. At all.
The instantaneous mountain-top feeling after a conversion is common. But if we allow ourselves to stay there and fool ourselves into thinking we’re already at our goal, we’ll never descend the mountain and we’ll never truly grow. We’ll just brow-beat others and throw our weight around, and confuse our ego with the Holy Spirit.
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Zoidar: "You know that all who have been born again are elect? We are elect (if born again), just like Paul and Peter were elect."
Elect are through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and the sprinkling of the blood of Jesus.
1 Peter 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
This is Jesus Christ too, remember the Spirit ascended and remained..
John 1:31 And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water.
32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.
Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.
Putting on Christ as the elect of God, which is putting on the bond of perfectness, the armour of light ( Christ is light):
Colossians 3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
Colossians 3:12 14 And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.
Romans 13:12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.
13 Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying.
14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.
1 Peter 2:6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
Or talk on, instead of edify in charity/love in deed, it is not in your talk, and without adding charity we fail, and are blind ( assuming we are born of God elect when we show we are not)..
2 Peter 1:5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
2 Peter 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
1 Corinthians 8:1 Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.
1 John 3:16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.
Elect are through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and the sprinkling of the blood of Jesus.
1 Peter 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
This is Jesus Christ too, remember the Spirit ascended and remained..
John 1:31 And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water.
32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.
Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.
Putting on Christ as the elect of God, which is putting on the bond of perfectness, the armour of light ( Christ is light):
Colossians 3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
Colossians 3:12 14 And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.
Romans 13:12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.
13 Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying.
14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.
1 Peter 2:6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
Or talk on, instead of edify in charity/love in deed, it is not in your talk, and without adding charity we fail, and are blind ( assuming we are born of God elect when we show we are not)..
2 Peter 1:5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
2 Peter 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
1 Corinthians 8:1 Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.
1 John 3:16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.
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