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How do you support OSAS in light of Heb 6:4 without being Calvinist?

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A Brother In Christ

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MbiaJc said:
I beg to disagree, that is not a true statment according it Romans.


We know the Law did not save anyone. So how were the OT saints saved. By grace through faith, same as father Aberham, same as we are today.
The Law was just the schoolmaster leading us all to Jesus Christ. They were looking forward to the cross, while we look back at the cross.

Yet name the Jews that believed that Jesus was God or even the King....

He was denied as a whole on both accounts

Both groups where saved by grace thru faith..eph 2:8-9

Yet there daily lives was govern by the law to live out in there daily lives righteousness...

the church ...is John 13:34-35... we should love are brothers as Christ as He loved us.
 
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MbiaJc

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A Brother In Christ said:
Yet name the Jews that believed that Jesus was God or even the King....

He was denied as a whole on both accounts

Both groups where saved by grace thru faith..eph 2:8-9

Yet there daily lives was govern by the law to live out in there daily lives righteousness...

the church ...is John 13:34-35... we should love are brothers as Christ as He loved us.

You are not getting it. Every Jew that was saved form Adam to the cross was saved by Grace through faith. Same way every Jew or Gentile is saved today.
You are looking at the ones that did not believe, instead of the ones that believed, which admitted are few and far between. However the ones that did believe, was looking for one to come that would take away the sins of the whole world. What did Abraham say to his son about the sacrifice? The Lord will provide!!!!!!!
 
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savedbyHisgrace

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Soldat_fur_Christ said:
Question: "Does Hebrews 6:4-6 mean we can lose our salvation?"

Answer:Hebrews 6:4-6 is one of the most difficult passages to interpret in the entire Bible. If it truly says that believers can lose their salvation, then it is also saying that “ex-believers” can NEVER regain their salvation, “it is impossible…if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance.” To my knowledge, everyone who teaches that salvation can be lost also believes that salvation can be regained. But, if Hebrews 6:4-6 is used to prove loss of salvation, then it also proves that salvation lost can never be regained.

So, what do I think Hebrews 6:4-6 is saying? I believe it is presenting a “hypothetical” situation. It is saying that if a true believer were to fall away (which 1 John 2:19 says is impossible) then there would be no other way of salvation, because there is no other way (John 14:6; Acts 4:12). If believers were to reject Christ (which is impossible) they could never come back because “to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace” (Hebrews 6:6).

gotquestions dot org

*Note: seeing I'm under 15 posts, I can't post links, so replace the dot with a real . and you can goto that site, it's awesome!!

Excellent point. :thumbsup:

One question I'd like answered is what actions would cause us to lose our salvation? :scratch: If I quit reading my Bible, if I quit praying, what if I quit going to church? By the way, my cousin, who is a Pentecostal and who does not believe in OSAS, believes that if I do those things, I lose my salvation.
 
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Imblessed

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savedbyHisgrace said:
Excellent point. :thumbsup:

One question I'd like answered is what actions would cause us to lose our salvation? :scratch: If I quit reading my Bible, if I quit praying, what if I quit going to church? By the way, my cousin, who is a Pentecostal and who does not believe in OSAS, believes that if I do those things, I lose my salvation.

if you quit praying, going to church, reading the bible, (basically losing interest in God) were you ever truly saved to begin with? ----I'm not talking about temporarily losing our way, God soveriegnly allows us sometimes to "get lost", but He is never truly gone, and we have not 'lost salvation' during that time of desert dwelling.......

This one verse always comes back to me.... 1John2:19

They went out from us, but they were not of us: for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us: but they went out that they might be made manifest, that not of them were of us."

If you are one of God's chosen, God WILL keep you in Him. That is His promise.
 
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A Brother In Christ

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JPPT1974 said:
If we quit praying and reading the Bible
And stop going to church
Then we aren't really close to God
As we should really be
Or as He wants us to be!

Church of Sardis rev 3:1b I know thy works, that thou hast a name among the world that thou livest, and you are dead...

what good does this do if Christ is not inside of you...
 
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PrincetonGuy

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My view of Hebrews 6:4-9:

Heb. 6:4. For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5. and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
6. and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.
7. For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God;
8. but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned.
9. But, beloved, we are convinced of better things concerning you, and things that accompany salvation, though we are speaking in this way. (NASB, 1995)

Up until the 16th century this passage was universally interpreted as teaching that a Christian could lose his salvation, and the large majority of Bible scholars today still hold to that position. Indeed, this passage of Scripture gives us the most detailed description of what it means to be saved that we find anywhere in the Bible.

The phrase in verse 4, “those who have once been enlightened,” is a reference to water baptism. Indeed, Justin Martyr (died in 165 A.D.) wrote that the term “enlightenment” was used as a synonym for water baptism of converts to Christianity and he uses the term “the enlightened one” for a person who has been baptized. And the ancient Peshita Syriac translation of the Greek New Testament renders the phrase in verse 4, “who have gone down into baptism.”

The phrase in verse 4, “have tasted of the heavenly gift,” was variously interpreted during the first 1500 years, but it was ALWAYS interpreted as describing a born-again Christian. Some, for example, saw it to be a reference to the Eucharist; others saw it to be a reference to the teaching of Christ in John 6:31-58. Still others saw it to be a reference to the forgiveness of sins; others saw it to be a reference to the blessings conferred upon the Christian believer.

The phrase in verse 4, “and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,” is an obvious reference to receiving the Holy Spirit, something that, in the New Testament, happens EXCLUSIVELY to those who have been saved.

The phrase in verse 5, “and have tasted the good word of God,” is a clear reference to the Christian’s experience of hearing the word of God preached and taught and the consequential experience of it in his life as a believer.

The phrase in verse 5, “and the powers of the age to come,” is a reference to the miracles that were performed by the Apostles and other Christians as a foreshadowing of the kingdom to come, and to the other blessings that Christians experience now in part but shall experience in their fullness in the future kingdom.

The phrase in verse 6, “and then have fallen away,” can be properly interpreted only to be speaking of falling from grace and the Christian faith, something that can NOT happen until AFTER a person is saved.

The phrases in verse 6, “it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame,” tell us of the absolutely horrendous consequence of a Christian falling from grace, making the death of Christ on the cross for his sins to be of no effect. This passage expressly speaks of a person who has heard the Gospel, believed it, was saved and baptized, repented of his sins, and enjoyed the blessing of being a born-again Christian—but who subsequently chose to reject Christ and return to his sins. And the fate of such a person could not possibly be any worse—it is “impossible to renew them again to repentance.” Most obviously it is not impossible to renew an unsaved person to repentance if they have repented but not been born again and then fall back into sin. But the born-again Christian who, of his own free will, chooses to reject the Christ who redeemed him, this man or woman is beyond redemption and damned to the fires of hell for eternity.

Because of the extremely severity of the word “impossible” in this verse, many early Christians rejected the Epistle to the Hebrews as not being a part of the New Testament Canon, but its place in the New Testament Canon is now solid and its warning is stern. Christians who fight tooth and nail to detract from the warning of this passage shall have the blood upon their hands of those who lose their salvation because they were told the warning did not apply to them and they got careless as a result.
 
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PrincetonGuy

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A quote from gotquestions.org quoted above:

Question: "Does Hebrews 6:4-6 mean we can lose our salvation?"

Answer:Hebrews 6:4-6 is one of the most difficult passages to interpret in the entire Bible. If it truly says that believers can lose their salvation, then it is also saying that “ex-believers” can NEVER regain their salvation, “it is impossible…if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance.” To my knowledge, everyone who teaches that salvation can be lost also believes that salvation can be regained. But, if Hebrews 6:4-6 is used to prove loss of salvation, then it also proves that salvation lost can never be regained.

Let’s look first at the last sentence quoted above, “To my knowledge, everyone who teaches that salvation can be lost also believes that salvation can be regained.” We can see from this sentence that the person who wrote it knows virtually nothing at all about the literature on Hebrews 6 and virtually nothing about the doctrine of conditional security because VERY MANY scholars of Hebrews and very many theologians believe that once a Christian loses his salvation, it is permanently and irrevocable lost!

Now let’s look at the first sentence quoted above, “Hebrews 6:4-6 is one of the most difficult passages to interpret in the entire Bible.” This could not be further from the truth! This passage of scripture is so easy to understand that for 1500 years it was universally taught by Christians to teach that a Christian can lose his salvation. It was not until the 16th century that this interpretation was questioned and it was questioned then only because an erroneous understanding of the sovereignty of God had led a number of theologians to believe in a brand new doctrine, the doctrine of the Perseverance of the Saints, the forerunner of the doctrine of Once Saved Always Saved.

Finding a way to make Hebrew 6:4-6 conform to these new, man-made doctrines presented to theologians an unprecedented difficulty. The three most common “solutions” put forth are the following:

1. The persons described in this passage had religious experiences that fall short of actual salvation.

2. The persons described in this passage were truly saved persons but they suffered a loss other than their salvation.

3. This passage presents to the readers a hypothetical situation that could not possible become a reality.

“Solution” #1 is by far the most common one put forth teachers of OSAS. “Solution” #2 is not very common, but it is not nearly so rare or so ridiculous as “solution” #3. Hebrews 6:4-6 is a stern warning of the real peril of rejecting one’s faith in Christ.
 
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JacobHall86

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OSAS is not a Calvinistic Doctrine, so I dont know how the two play in together.

Perseverance of the Saints is Calvinistic, OSAS is not.

Its that if Somone is changed by Jesus Christ, if the Holy Spirit lives in them and has saved them and they have died to themselves, how can they continue to live in sin? If someone is truely saved, they wont find a place where they cant repent.

You can not lose your salvation, regardless of what the Pentacostal movement says.
 
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Erinwilcox

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JacobHall86 said:
OSAS is not a Calvinistic Doctrine, so I dont know how the two play in together.

Perseverance of the Saints is Calvinistic, OSAS is not.

Its that if Somone is changed by Jesus Christ, if the Holy Spirit lives in them and has saved them and they have died to themselves, how can they continue to live in sin? If someone is truely saved, they wont find a place where they cant repent.

You can not lose your salvation, regardless of what the Pentacostal movement says.

Well. . .I wouldn't quite say that the two wouldn't play in together. Look at it this way (and this is coming from a Calvinist, BTW):

OSAS--Christians will never lose their salvation
POS-- Christians will never lose their salvation

If you say that a Christian will never lose his salvation, a Calvinist would be the first to agree. We believe that all those who have have truly repented of their sins and savingly believed on the Lord Jesus Christ are saved and, by the grace of God, will remain saved until the end.

I realize that OSAS usually means that anyone who ever says the sinner's prayer is saved and is saved forever, whether they repented and really believed or not, but if you just take a literal meaning of it. . .
 
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JacobHall86

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Erinwilcox said:
Well. . .I wouldn't quite say that the two wouldn't play in together. Look at it this way (and this is coming from a Calvinist, BTW):

OSAS--Christians will never lose their salvation
POS-- Christians will never lose their salvation

If you say that a Christian will never lose his salvation, a Calvinist would be the first to agree. We believe that all those who have have truly repented of their sins and savingly believed on the Lord Jesus Christ are saved and, by the grace of God, will remain saved until the end.

I realize that OSAS usually means that anyone who ever says the sinner's prayer is saved and is saved forever, whether they repented and really believed or not, but if you just take a literal meaning of it. . .

OSAS - Carnal Christianity. DO whatever you want, its forgiven.
POS - Continue in Sanctification with the assurance that you are redeemed, even if you slip up. One is a safety net, the other is a net that traps you.
 
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BoranJarami

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3. This passage presents to the readers a hypothetical situation that could not possible become a reality.
#3. Hebrews 6:4-6 is a stern warning of the real peril of rejecting one’s faith in Christ.

If you look at the context of these scriptures it is clear that the topic that the author is discussing is not a warning about what will happen if you reject Christ, but instead is an incouragement to move on to deeper understandings of the faith.

Hebrews 5:12-6:6
12. For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
13. For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14. But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
1.Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, 2. Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
3. And this will we do, if God permit.
4. For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5. And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6. If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Hebrews 5:12-14 describes the difference between those who eat "milk" and those who eat "meat". He tells them that while they are currently drinking milk they should instead be chewing on a steak (metaphoricly speaking of course). After saying this, the author goes on to say in 6:1-3 that as a result they shouldn't be worrying about the fundimentals of salvation and baptism, but that they should move on into "perfection" . At which point the author writes 6:4-6.

Since verse 4 sarts out with "For" it is a clear indicator that what follows is an explaination of why the earlier is true. In this case the author is in essence saying that you don't need to worry about those fundimentals in your own life, they have already had their effect on you and if you were to fall away, it wouldn't matter because they couldn't be done again for you. So move on! Eat some meat!

Also, why can't God use hypothetical situations to reveal imortant and very real truths? In fact there is presidence in the Bible for these kinds of hypothetical situations. I Corinthians 13:2 states: "And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing"

There is no man (save Jesus) that understands all mysteries, has all knowledge, and has all faith. This is a hypothetical situation that teaches a very real truth (that love is very important) just as Hebrews 6:4-6 is a hypothetical situation that teaches a very real truth, once we are saved we should stop worrying about our salvation and chew on something tougher.

May God bless and guide you.
 
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BoranJarami

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My view of Hebrews 6:4-9:

Heb. 6:4. For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5. and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
6. and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.
7. For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God;
8. but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned.
9. But, beloved, we are convinced of better things concerning you, and things that accompany salvation, though we are speaking in this way. (NASB, 1995)

All of the translations of the Bible that I have provide an "if" for these verses (including KJV and NIV). One must wonder how the greek worded it. The if can make a big difference in understanding.

Up until the 16th century this passage was universally interpreted as teaching that a Christian could lose his salvation, and the large majority of Bible scholars today still hold to that position. Indeed, this passage of Scripture gives us the most detailed description of what it means to be saved that we find anywhere in the Bible.

The phrase in verse 4, “those who have once been enlightened,” is a reference to water baptism. Indeed, Justin Martyr (died in 165 A.D.) wrote that the term “enlightenment” was used as a synonym for water baptism of converts to Christianity and he uses the term “the enlightened one” for a person who has been baptized. And the ancient Peshita Syriac translation of the Greek New Testament renders the phrase in verse 4, “who have gone down into baptism.”

The phrase in verse 4, “have tasted of the heavenly gift,” was variously interpreted during the first 1500 years, but it was ALWAYS interpreted as describing a born-again Christian. Some, for example, saw it to be a reference to the Eucharist; others saw it to be a reference to the teaching of Christ in John 6:31-58. Still others saw it to be a reference to the forgiveness of sins; others saw it to be a reference to the blessings conferred upon the Christian believer.

The phrase in verse 4, “and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,” is an obvious reference to receiving the Holy Spirit, something that, in the New Testament, happens EXCLUSIVELY to those who have been saved.

The phrase in verse 5, “and have tasted the good word of God,” is a clear reference to the Christian’s experience of hearing the word of God preached and taught and the consequential experience of it in his life as a believer.

The phrase in verse 5, “and the powers of the age to come,” is a reference to the miracles that were performed by the Apostles and other Christians as a foreshadowing of the kingdom to come, and to the other blessings that Christians experience now in part but shall experience in their fullness in the future kingdom.

The phrase in verse 6, “and then have fallen away,” can be properly interpreted only to be speaking of falling from grace and the Christian faith, something that can NOT happen until AFTER a person is saved.

The phrases in verse 6, “it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame,” tell us of the absolutely horrendous consequence of a Christian falling from grace, making the death of Christ on the cross for his sins to be of no effect. This passage expressly speaks of a person who has heard the Gospel, believed it, was saved and baptized, repented of his sins, and enjoyed the blessing of being a born-again Christian—but who subsequently chose to reject Christ and return to his sins. And the fate of such a person could not possibly be any worse—it is “impossible to renew them again to repentance.” Most obviously it is not impossible to renew an unsaved person to repentance if they have repented but not been born again and then fall back into sin. But the born-again Christian who, of his own free will, chooses to reject the Christ who redeemed him, this man or woman is beyond redemption and damned to the fires of hell for eternity.

Because of the extremely severity of the word “impossible” in this verse, many early Christians rejected the Epistle to the Hebrews as not being a part of the New Testament Canon, but its place in the New Testament Canon is now solid and its warning is stern. Christians who fight tooth and nail to detract from the warning of this passage shall have the blood upon their hands of those who lose their salvation because they were told the warning did not apply to them and they got careless as a result.

You start by claiming that up until the twenty first century these verese were interperated as to mean that one could loose there salvation. But all of the quotes and logic that you bring up go to the idea that the verses are talking about the saved.

This is not something that we argue about. I for one agree with Justin Martyr on this and believe that the situation described in these verses is ascribed to christians. But the question still remains of whether or not this situation is actualy possible or if it is a hypothetical situation. This is where that "if" becomes important.

My interpretation is that the author is not saying that people do loose their salvation, but if they did, they couldn't get it back. This point is important in the overall context of these verses in which the author of Hebrews is trying to get people to move deeper into the faith and start to chew on a little meat ( see Hebrews 5:12-14)
 
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BoranJarami

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quot-top-left.gif
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Originally Posted by: Erinwilcox
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Well. . .I wouldn't quite say that the two wouldn't play in together. Look at it this way (and this is coming from a Calvinist, BTW):

OSAS--Christians will never lose their salvation
POS-- Christians will never lose their salvation

If you say that a Christian will never lose his salvation, a Calvinist would be the first to agree. We believe that all those who have have truly repented of their sins and savingly believed on the Lord Jesus Christ are saved and, by the grace of God, will remain saved until the end.

I realize that OSAS usually means that anyone who ever says the sinner's prayer is saved and is saved forever, whether they repented and really believed or not, but if you just take a literal meaning of it. . .




OSAS - Carnal Christianity. DO whatever you want, its forgiven.
POS - Continue in Sanctification with the assurance that you are redeemed, even if you slip up. One is a safety net, the other is a net that traps you.

POS- perseverance of the saints ( never did like these terms, sounds like the saints are doing something instead of God)
OSAS- preservation of the saints (and yes you must repent and really believe to be a saint, the sinners prayer is just a vehicle for these)
 
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PrincetonGuy

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BoranJarami said:
All of the translations of the Bible that I have provide an "if" for these verses (including KJV and NIV). One must wonder how the greek worded it. The if can make a big difference in understanding.

There is no "if" in the Greek text:

Heb 6:4 ᾿Αδύνατον γὰρ τοὺς ἅπαξ φωτισθέντας, γευσαμένους τε τῆς δωρεᾶς τῆς ἐπουρανίου καὶ μετόχους γενηθέντας Πνεύματος ῾Αγίου
Heb 6:5 καὶ καλὸν γευσαμένους Θεοῦ ῥῆμα δυνάμεις τε μέλλοντος αἰῶνος,
Heb 6:6 καὶ παραπεσόντας, πάλιν ἀνακαινίζειν εἰς μετάνοιαν, ἀνασταυροῦντας ἑαυτοῖς τὸν υἱὸν τοῦ Θεοῦ καὶ παραδειγματίζοντας.

There is absolutely NOTHING hypothetical about this!
 
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Erinwilcox

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JacobHall86 said:
OSAS - Carnal Christianity. DO whatever you want, its forgiven.
POS - Continue in Sanctification with the assurance that you are redeemed, even if you slip up.

That's why I said to just take a literal meaning (from the name itself) of OSAS. . .I would never ascribe to the carnal Christian doctrine.

POS- perseverance of the saints ( never did like these terms, sounds like the saints are doing something instead of God)
OSAS- preservation of the saints (and yes you must repent and really believe to be a saint, the sinners prayer is just a vehicle for these)

There are many who would change that to POG-of God, since it is God who keeps us. While I would not argue with your definition of OSAS, do realize that your definition is NOT what most of Christendom today believes. Allow me to explain from a true story:

A young boy says the sinners prayer an is baptized. Fastforward- twenty years later, he has shown absolutely no interest in Christ or His Word for many years, doesn't go to church, is living with his girlfriend in fornication, is a heavy drinker, etc. But his mom still says that he's a Christian because he prayed the sinner's prayer and was baptized.

Is he really saved? While I couldn't say for certain (though I see absolutely no fruits in his life), I would definitely say that he is on VERY dangerous ground. Also, if he is not really saved, then he is going through life with false security (because if you ask him, he will say that he's a Christian). In this false security lies the great danger of OSAS, since most Christians seem to think that all one needs to do is pray the sinner's prayer and then no matter what they do, how they live, etc. they are always saved and "must never doubt it or they are calling God a liar".
 
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BoranJarami

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While I would not argue with your definition of OSAS, do realize that your definition is NOT what most of Christendom today believes. Allow me to explain from a true story:

A young boy says the sinners prayer an is baptized. Fastforward- twenty years later, he has shown absolutely no interest in Christ or His Word for many years, doesn't go to church, is living with his girlfriend in fornication, is a heavy drinker, etc. But his mom still says that he's a Christian because he prayed the sinner's prayer and was baptized.

I have gone to a number of different churches all my life ( though mostly baptist) and have never come across anyone who would afirm this statement. Almost every southern baptist, when looking at the situation that you provided, would say that the boy never realy made that commitment in the first place. This is because we understand the necesity of true repentence and commitment on the part of the sinner. If we didn't, then believers baptism would be pointless.
 
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BoranJarami

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Heb 6:4 ᾿Αδύνατον γὰρ τοὺς ἅπαξ φωτισθέντας, γευσαμένους τε τῆς δωρεᾶς τῆς ἐπουρανίου καὶ μετόχους γενηθέντας Πνεύματος ῾Αγίου
Heb 6:5 καὶ καλὸν γευσαμένους Θεοῦ ῥῆμα δυνάμεις τε μέλλοντος αἰῶνος,
Heb 6:6 καὶ παραπεσόντας, πάλιν ἀνακαινίζειν εἰς μετάνοιαν, ἀνασταυροῦντας ἑαυτοῖς τὸν υἱὸν τοῦ Θεοῦ καὶ παραδειγματίζοντας.

Let me brush up on my greek grammer and then I will get back to you on this.
 
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Erinwilcox

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BoranJarami said:
I have gone to a number of different churches all my life ( though mostly baptist) and have never come across anyone who would afirm this statement. .

This is where the answer lies, then. I have gone to attended churches of many different denominations and heard many preachers from many different denominations. Several years ago, I attendeda VBS at a local church (this one happened to be Baptist) and in this group, we were told to bow our heads and silently repeat after what the leader was saying. When the prayer was over, the preacher said, "Now if you prayed that prayer for the first time today, then Welcome to the Family of the Lord!" Obviously, it was the sinners prayer. I have know of instances where, after someone has prayed the prayer, they are told to never, ever, ever doubt their salvation or else they would be calling God a liar.
 
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mesue

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Erinwilcox said:
A young boy says the sinners prayer an is baptized. Fastforward- twenty years later, he has shown absolutely no interest in Christ or His Word for many years, doesn't go to church, is living with his girlfriend in fornication, is a heavy drinker, etc. But his mom still says that he's a Christian because he prayed the sinner's prayer and was baptized.

Is he really saved?
...
Yes. He's missing a couple of crowns and his reward will be less, but his salvation is secure.
 
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