How do you represent Christianity to new age "spiritual" people (Yoga, meditation, etc)

[Gregory Thompson]

Maybe these pictures will help explain the difference.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I'm really shocked at how pervasive "spiritual" thinking is today. Even in many churches they have yoga classes. Now of course there are many degrees of yoga spirituality and hopefully they are doing just the movements. But it used to be that way with almost all yoga classes. Now it seems most are quite openly spiritual. If you look at many holiday destinations it would be hard to find a single one that is in a nature setting that isn't heavily bent on new age mysticism. Its so colossally widespread. And they're doing it because of the money. They don't have to provide much and can charge a whopping amount. Satan helps them contrive an enticing resort experience. It seems like half the people online are "life coaches" and so often they are involved in mysticism and spirituality and by spirituality I am not talking about the Holy Spirit. No, when they pray they pray to "the universe", not even thinking how absurd this is. Do we talk to empty space? Why would we pray to something we can't even identify? Every one has a different opinion of who they are praying to. They know it has many parallels to Hinduism yet won't admit it. They want a feel good spiritual experience where there are few of any rules. Sound familiar?

So how do you approach someone like this? Because they are really convinced of the truth in their beliefs. Another factor is the physicality of a lot of new age activities. It can shape their bodies very well so they retain their youth far better than most Christians and everyone else. But this is merely exercise and anyone can exercise. (We should encourage exercise FAR more in our churches, people. Christians should set a fine example. Instead most are just as obese and lethargic as everyone else.) My point is they have a mental state where "everything is OK and good and peaceful" and a phyiscal state where they feel physically very good. How do you talk to someone like this? Of course later in life they revert back to where they were before and realize it was a huge waste of time. Hopefully they still exercise though. But in the meantime they are convinced of this authenticity.

I would present Christ and Him crucified to them. Also I would spent at least two hours in private intercessory prayer for them for each hour I spend with them. We can't do anything for these people without the Holy Spirit, and without prayer, we will not be filled with the Holy Spirit to allow Him to speak through us when we talk to them about Christ. The main reason why we don't have much impression on these people is that we don't spend the time in private prayer, both to gain wisdom from the Lord about what to say, and intercessory prayer that the Holy Spirit will convict them of sin, righteousness and judgment to come so that their hearts will be prepared to accept the Gospel which we are presenting to them.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

What bothers me is all this talk against "yoga" and "mysticism" without the slightest clue as to what it is. It seems prevalent in this day and age for most Christians to simply regurgitate misinformation from someone else and spread it like wildfire.

I don't pray to a literary character, either. I've seen prayers be answered by Muslims, but does that mean that it was mere coincidence, because their deity is presented differently than the one in the bible? Like you said, everyone has a different opinion of who they are praying to, best not to objectify the being of God as a literal person. We use such language to aid us in our understanding of the divine, but God is not confined to the limits of such finite descriptions.

The Holy Spirit says, "They who come to God must believe that He is (in other words, a real person who is really there to hear our prayers), and that He is a rewarder of those who truly seek Him". If one doesn't believe in God as a real Person, then their prayers are nothing but hot air and will go nowhere. In that case, they will never be able to influence anyone, because it is the people who know their God who will do exploits for Him. Without that knowledge, they will accomplish nothing.

 

[stevevw]

Yes, but wat exactly does "through Christ" mean? Is it simply an intellectual decision to accept and believe? Or is there more to it? I believe he works through all things and we do not recognize for the most part. We are too literal.

I think its more than intellect. Like any relationship its also involves our hearts. In fact intellect can sometimes get in the way. Its about faith as opposed to evidence. But its not blind either as we are more than just robots and are conscious beings able to be aware of the transcendent aspects of reality. I think all beliefs are similar like that in that it requires a belief in something beyond material conceptions.

The reason I used the phrase 'through Christ' is an analogy that we can choose to go through different doors to find spirituality. Each door has a worldview or lens which contains ideas and assumptions about the world and lead down different paths to whatever it is we seek through spirituality. This seems to be something natural in us. The door you choose will determine your state of spirituality. So I would imagine that choosing the right door to spirituality is important.

I think this is related to when Christ mentions that he is the door to God. That implies there are many doorways to spirituality that don't lead to God and perhaps don't or only partially fulfill that spiritual need. As humans have this natural tendency to seek spirituality I guess we can create our own ideas about what it represents. But I think there is only one doorway to true spirituality that is in harmony with who we are and our place in the universe.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

The new age spiritual condition can be explained when compared to the freedom we have in the kingdom of Christ Jesus as two earthly parables: A pyramid scheme, a credit card.

New people taking part in the new age religion tend to appear to be disconnected from reality, they are generally too positive minded. This part of a paranormal imbalance.

The people involved open themselves up to a "flow of energy" and this charges their emotions so it has an effect similar to some drugs.

This flow of energy is shared amongst all the people in the same network. This arrangement has people benefiting the most from it, and others at the bottom of the pyramid scheme always complaining about "energy vampires." This is because the energy dispensation is like a credit card.

The people involved in this occult pyramid scheme are feeling better "for a while" at the expense of their future, that is put up as collateral. Eventually, the "debt" becomes too big, and is absorbed by the blob of the collective debt, and it feels like they are being drained all the time.

So the final image in my previous post represents a toxic environment where people lose their sense of self, and sometimes cannot tell if the original person even exists under the sea of stimuli. Their body is then used to generate occult energy for the "people at the top" of the pyramid scheme. The energy generated is used like a currency for whatever law of attraction sorcery the top pyramid people intend to make happen.

In the kingdom of God with reference point, trinity, and Christ Jesus the power given to us is based on the riches of God. This is the main foundational difference.

In the kingdom of God, what empowers us, is God.

There is no need to manipulate a paranormal version of the global financial markets just to be able to have some breathing room. God is the air we breathe; and where the Holy Spirit is, there is freedom.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

I think its more than intellect. Like any relationship its also involves our hearts.

Maybe start with some kind of intellectual assent but interpersonal relationship with The Mystery comes to my mind. So this morning I felt I needed to sit down and articulate my personal beliefs. Not what I should believe or have been taught but what can believe. I hand wrote 5 pages. It all starts with LOVE. But how does one nurture such a relationship?

For those interested, I came up with 2 fundamental necessities:
1. Practice solidarity
Kindness toward others
generosity toward others
patience toward others
Try always to see from the perspective of others

2. Practice Trust
Acceptance of life unfolding as divine providence
Approach the Divine Mystery as a loving person
Surrender to all we cannot change

In my belief system we need to move toward greater realization of our unity with ourselves, God, all creation and each other

 

[stevevw]

And yet there have been billions who find that balance and peace through other religions. As if the God we worship might also be effective through them.

Many also find that balance and peace through non religious means as well. Even mind altering drugs will give people peace to a point. I am not sure what you are saying. Are you saying that other religions lead to Christ As Christ is the distinguishing truth and those claiming to be truth. Islam for example which is the largest non Christian belief and follow the same God but reject Christ.

Christ says

John 14: 6 “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
John 14: 26-27 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives.

The Bible also says
Colossians 3:15
Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace. And be thankful.
Philippians 4:7
And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.
Romans 15:13
May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace as you trust in him, so that you may overflow with hope by the power of the Holy Spirit.
Isaiah 9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

I think there is peace as the world understands and gives and there is the peace that only comes from God through Christ.

 

[Aussie Pete]

I'm really shocked at how pervasive "spiritual" thinking is today. Even in many churches they have yoga classes. Now of course there are many degrees of yoga spirituality and hopefully they are doing just the movements. But it used to be that way with almost all yoga classes. Now it seems most are quite openly spiritual. If you look at many holiday destinations it would be hard to find a single one that is in a nature setting that isn't heavily bent on new age mysticism. Its so colossally widespread. And they're doing it because of the money. They don't have to provide much and can charge a whopping amount. Satan helps them contrive an enticing resort experience. It seems like half the people online are "life coaches" and so often they are involved in mysticism and spirituality and by spirituality I am not talking about the Holy Spirit. No, when they pray they pray to "the universe", not even thinking how absurd this is. Do we talk to empty space? Why would we pray to something we can't even identify? Every one has a different opinion of who they are praying to. They know it has many parallels to Hinduism yet won't admit it. They want a feel good spiritual experience where there are few of any rules. Sound familiar?

So how do you approach someone like this? Because they are really convinced of the truth in their beliefs. Another factor is the physicality of a lot of new age activities. It can shape their bodies very well so they retain their youth far better than most Christians and everyone else. But this is merely exercise and anyone can exercise. (We should encourage exercise FAR more in our churches, people. Christians should set a fine example. Instead most are just as obese and lethargic as everyone else.) My point is they have a mental state where "everything is OK and good and peaceful" and a phyiscal state where they feel physically very good. How do you talk to someone like this? Of course later in life they revert back to where they were before and realize it was a huge waste of time. Hopefully they still exercise though. But in the meantime they are convinced of this authenticity.

"My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I will also reject you as My priests. Since you have forgotten the law of your God, I will also forget your children." Hosea 4:6

Ignorance is not bliss, it can be deadly. There is a lack of sound teaching, spiritual discernment and great ignorance as to what the world system is. Seminaries are intent on undermining the authority of God's word. God's people are betrayed by the people who should be leading them to the knowledge of the truth. Passive Christians are too lazy spiritually to seek truth for themselves. Some churches no longer preach the word in meetings. It's all about "feel-good" singing and prancing around in supposed worship. Meanwhile, the world infects the church to the point where they are hardly any different.

If people are open and receptive, you can help them. If not, you are wasting your breath. "Pearls before swine....." Watchman Nee has an interesting take on "swine". Pigs are unclean in the OT. Yet they share some characteristics with clean animals. They have a split hoof. They do not have fur, so they are unclean. Nee relates this to pseudo-Christians. They seem to qualify as believers but there is something not right. We need to be careful how we deal with that kind of person.

 

[stevevw]

Maybe start with some kind of intellectual assent but interpersonal relationship with The Mystery comes to my mind. So this morning I felt I needed to sit down and articulate my personal beliefs. Not what I should believe or have been taught but what can believe. I hand wrote 5 pages. It all starts with LOVE. But how does one nurture such a relationship?

For those interested, I came up with 2 fundamental necessities:
1. Practice solidarity
Kindness toward others
generosity toward others
patience toward others
Try always to see from the perspective of others

2. Practice Trust
Acceptance of life unfolding as divine providence
Approach the Divine Mystery as a loving person
Surrender to all we cannot change

In my belief system we need to move toward greater realization of our unity with ourselves, God, all creation and each other

Yes I agree. All things considered as conscious beings we are able to contemplate these things and transcend beyond our worldly conceptions and become aware of something greater than ourselves. The qualities you mention are not grounded in the world but transcend it and cannot be evidenced by material ideas. We can all appeal to these transcendental qualities as conscious beings and though not evidenced in the world we can still believe their realness in the greater scheme of things.

You mention LOVE as the basis and I agree. LOVE becomes real because it happens between conscious beings who are able to experience LOVE in different forms. We are made in Gods image and God loved us that He gave His Son to save us. So its no just any love, its sacrificial LOVE. This LOVE covers all things and there is nothing without LOVE.

That is why to LOVE God and your neighbor are the two greatest commandments as they cover all the moral law.

The Amour of God (Ephesians 6:10-18) mentions in verse 17 Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.

 

[Inhocsigno]

Our group has had success in reaching such groups in our missions--including especially in Europe, where such spiritual and spiritualists beliefs are common--in some part by helping to emphasize the depth and richness of the spirituality expressed in the Gospels. And just as important, the deep rooted nature of that spirituality, a kind of thoughtful spirituality in a timeless context that is far beyond skin-deep. Some verses are esp valuable to illustrate, ex. Romans 8:11 "But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you." From 1 Corinthians 2:15-16 "But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one. For who has known the mind of the Lord, that he will instruct Him? But we have the mind of Christ." The post above on this topic by Aaron112 is exactly in line with this.

And a simple but powerful statement of spirituality and moral uprightness, from Colossians 3:12 "So, as those who have been chosen of God, holy and beloved, put on a heart of compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience" It is of course important to translate these into the main languages of the flock to whom a group is administering. Some of our strongest success for example has been in adapting the message to Irish Gaelic in Ireland or Scottish Gaelic in Scotland, as these are countries with a degree of spiritualism in their communities, and such messages touch the hearts of the people there and their ancient identity, the same for ex. for our recent ministries in Arabic and the Berber languages (such as Amazigh) and for Turkish and Kurdish. But the general rule is to make it clear that our evangelical efforts are not in any way in conflict with their focus on spiritualism, rather by joining our flocks, they will be able to explore and understand a deeper and richer spirituality that would be elusive for them otherwise.