How do you reconcile Evolution and Genesis?

[HitchSlap]

This used to bother me a lot. Not so much that I needed to reconcile it for myself but rather how to I reconcile it to help a non believer overcome doubt.

I’ve heard numerous objections to belief: creation, the flood, Leviticus, Lot, Job, slaves, everything - you name it. Every one of those objections is an excuse to not believe.

The bottom line for me now is: “I don’t care”.

If God created the world in six 24 hour periods 6,000 years ago or 6 eons billions of years ago, I don’t care. If God created man and animals to evolve to the point one was made self aware and named him Adam or if Adam appeared the first week of creation, I don’t care.

I believe beyond a shadow of a doubt that God created existence and that I am sinful by nature and need Jesus’ blood to pay for my sins. I want to be like Jesus said to be and I want to spend eternity with him.

I need NO excuse to believe.

A good question is why do so many need excuses to NOT believe?

Obviously others don’t find your reasons for ‘belief’ to be compelling enough. I, for one, do care that my beliefs comport with reality.

 

[Silmarien]

A good question is why do so many need excuses to NOT believe?

Because we crave certainty. We want something we can touch and measure and ultimately possess, and that's not in the cards.

It can be terrifying to give in even if you want to. If you see no reason why you might want to, on the other hand, why would you open that door at all?

The type of faith that Christianity in particular demands is super challenging. There are reasons why it's often too much to ask.

 

[ColoRaydo]

we can touch and measure and ultimately possess, and that's not in the cards.

It can be terrifying to give in even if you want to. If you see no reason why you might want to, on the other hand, why would you open that door at all?

The type of faith that Christianity in particular demands is super challenging. There are reasons why it's often too much to ask.

I completely agree with you. Faith is a decision and it’s not easy, especially when we don’t get what we want when we want it.

My point was that if someone truly does not believe at all they should not have to use the old testament out of context as their weapon of choice. The Internet trolls in particular who harass people on this forum are obviously fighting something they can’t see and won’t admit. The completely disinterested don’t need to make their presence known.

 

[AV1611VET]

Obviously others don’t find your reasons for ‘belief’ to be compelling enough. I, for one, do care that my beliefs comport with reality.

Your version of reality is limited by the five senses.

But there's another sense ... a sixth sense ... that allows you to [see] more of reality than meets those senses.

 

[ViaCrucis]

This used to bother me a lot. Not so much that I needed to reconcile it for myself but rather how to I reconcile it to help a non believer overcome doubt.

I’ve heard numerous objections to belief: creation, the flood, Leviticus, Lot, Job, slaves, everything - you name it. Every one of those objections is an excuse to not believe.

The bottom line for me now is: “I don’t care”.

If God created the world in six 24 hour periods 6,000 years ago or 6 eons billions of years ago, I don’t care. If God created man and animals to evolve to the point one was made self aware and named him Adam or if Adam appeared the first week of creation, I don’t care.

I believe beyond a shadow of a doubt that God created existence and that I am sinful by nature and need Jesus’ blood to pay for my sins. I want to be like Jesus said to be and I want to spend eternity with him.

I need NO excuse to believe.

A good question is why do so many need excuses to NOT believe?

I've never not believed, so I can't speak for someone who doesn't; but in my observations a major hurdle that is often put in the way of belief is the insistence upon certain things which have never been fundamental to Christian faith. If I weren't already a believer and someone told me that it was necessary, in order for me to put my trust in what God has done in Jesus, that I deny easily demonstrable and observable facts of reality; to insist that one cannot confess this Jesus to be what the Christian religion confesses Him to be unless I also deny observable reality and turn my brain off--then that would immediately turn me off. If the Gospel is made contingent upon demonstrably false ideas, then that would communicate that the Gospel itself is false.

St. Augustine speaks to this effect when he writes that it is a terrible thing when a self-professed Christian speaks on matters they don't know anything about concerning observable and demonstrable facets of reality and they come across as speaking ridiculous and foolish things which non-Christians have some knowledge about through reason. For Augustine the problem isn't that a fool makes themselves look foolish, but that they make a mockery of the faith, of the Scriptures themselves, and of the Gospel.

In Luther's correspondence with Philip Melancthon he writes that if Philip is going to be a preacher of grace, he has to preach real grace. And to preach real grace means addressing real sin, not imaginary sin. Because we are real sinners, in a real world, and the Gospel is about preaching real grace to real people--real sinners--in a real world. One can't be a Christian in an imaginary world, but only in a real world, otherwise Christianity is meaningless. We do not preach an imaginary Christ, or an imaginary Gospel; and we have to believe these things, preach these things, confess these things in a real world of objective reality. And the only world that exists, that we can know, is this one--in which science takes place, in which the age of things can be measured, in which observation and demonstration can show objective facets of our reality. Not that all things are observable and demonstrable--such as matters of faith--but that these matters of faith must exist also in the real, empirical world.

The problem with [Young Earth] Creationism, and religiously-motivated science denial in general, is that it postulates a Christianity for an imaginary world, not a real one. And that renders the whole preaching of the Gospel to nothing more than religious gibberish that is unwilling to engage with things as they are. We don't preach to imaginary people, we don't practice our faith in an imaginary world. But in the real world, with real people, with real problems, with real history, with an objectivity that is demonstrable.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[HitchSlap]

Your version of reality is limited by the five senses.

But there's another sense ... a sixth sense ... that allows you to [see] more of reality than meets those senses.

Can you see dead people?

 

[ColoRaydo]

‘

 

[ColoRaydo]

but in my observations a major hurdle that is often put in the way of belief is the insistence upon certain things which have never been fundamental to Christian faith.

That. Right there.

 

[AV1611VET]

Can you see dead people?

Yes.

We call them "mission fields."

 

[Silmarien]

I completely agree with you. Faith is a decision and it’s not easy, especially when we don’t get what we want when we want it.

My point was that if someone truly does not believe at all they should not have to use the old testament out of context as their weapon of choice. The Internet trolls in particular who harass people on this forum are obviously fighting something they can’t see and won’t admit. The completely disinterested don’t need to make their presence known.

I'm not sure. I was an atheist until the end of college, and snickering about biblical inconsistencies was something of a favorite sport. I think that sort of rebellion can be a coming of age thing for younger atheists--breaking away from the constraints of a religious society they reject. I'm not sure if anyone is ever fully disinterested, though. Not with questions like these.

Many of the atheists around here are struggling with the results of fundamentalist indoctrination, though. Some can deal with the consequences, but many unfortunately can't.

I've never not believed, so I can't speak for someone who doesn't; but in my observations a major hurdle that is often put in the way of belief is the insistence upon certain things which have never been fundamental to Christian faith.

Yeah, this bit is fun too.

I had a grand old time when I first started exploring Christianity, since my understanding of it had initially been shaped by Kierkegaard and Dostoevsky, I had a thing for mysticism, and all I could find online was Evangelicalism. And it made no sense.

Your posts were actually really helpful, back when I first joined. (I mean, they still are, but I know my way around traditional theology better now.) And some of the EO folk around here. Helped cut through... everything else.

 

[Tayla]

Christians who accept Evolution usually assert that Genesis 1 and 2 were not meant to be taken literally.

Everything in the Bible is to be taken literally. There are no allegories such that Genesis chapter one means something that matches what the materialistic atheistic scientists claim.

 

[AV1611VET]

I was an atheist until the end of college, and snickering about biblical inconsistencies was something of a favorite sport.

Did college help you stay an atheist, or did it encourage you to get saved?

I had a grand old time when I first started exploring Christianity,

I love what our associate pastor said:

"This country is full of churches from one end to the other; and that's just how Satan likes it."

 

[HitchSlap]

Yes.

We call them "mission fields."

Ha. You were the kid in the movie. Always wondered what happened to him.

 

[Silmarien]

Did college help you stay an atheist, or did it encourage you to get saved?

Ultimately, the latter. The Russian department offered a seminar on The Brothers Karamazov and Dostoevsky wrecked me. Nothing more dangerous than Christian literature. (And I'd taken the class because of some of the powerful anti-Christian passages in that book too. Whoops!)

 

[AV1611VET]

Ultimately, the latter. The Russian department offered a seminar on The Brothers Karamazov and Dostoevsky wrecked me. Nothing more dangerous than Christian literature. (And I'd taken the class because of some of the powerful anti-Christian passages in that book too. Whoops!)

 

[2PhiloVoid]

What's wrong, AV? Do you have dandruff or something? If you used the "Grecian formula" shampoo I use for my silky but spindly green hair, you wouldn't be scratching your head.

 

[AV1611VET]

What's wrong, AV? Do you have dandruff or something? If you used the "Grecian formula" shampoo I use for my silky but spindly green hair, you wouldn't be scratching your head.

TBH, I do, and I tried Tegrin, Selsun Blue, and Denorex; and the only one that ever worked was Denorex.

Your electrodes are pretty shiny ... WD40?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

TBH, I do, and I tried Tegrin, Selsun Blue, and Denorex; and the only one that ever worked was Denorex.

Your electrodes are pretty shiny ... WD40?

Why yes! Thank you!

 

[Quid est Veritas?]

Because we crave certainty. We want something we can touch and measure and ultimately possess, and that's not in the cards.

Rogozhin.

It can be terrifying to give in even if you want to. If you see no reason why you might want to, on the other hand, why would you open that door at all?

Ippolit.

The type of faith that Christianity in particular demands is super challenging. There are reasons why it's often too much to ask.

Ivan Karamazov.


No wonder you wanted to read Dostoyevsky.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I need NO excuse to believe.

A good question is why do so many need excuses to NOT believe?

For some, it's not an excuse they're making. They're honestly confused or unsure about it all; and there are still others who are even walking step by step to the beck and call of a force that they don't know is paving their express highway.