How do you not be gay?

[Thirst_For_Knowledge]

Thank you, but it is just as I thought.

They are using conditioning for behavior modification. So they are treating the symptom not the condition. In your second link the only studies that claim any kind of success are the studies using shock therapy, hmmm I wonder why this is?

I would also like to ask some of these researchers what “some improvement” means.

You are, of course, correct.

 

[Thirst_For_Knowledge]

In fact, Jung was one psychologist who believed that people were inherently bisexual, though to differing degrees.
50/50 chance does not take into account nature. Different people have different personalities, and different dispostions, etc.

But it takes the debate too far the other way to not consider the high degree of malleability of behavior, and the degree to which learning shapes what we do.
And I seriously doubt that a social context has ever existed in which at least some of the people have not acted 'gayish', and the myruiad of possible meanings that the word gay has.

Your first part does have a point. I believe all children are born bisexual... or rather... nosexual. It is the way that things work out, that gives them their sexuality.

 

[Antoninus Verus]

It is very possible that sexual behavior, like any other, is a learned behavior. Classical conditioning, reward of heterosexual behavior, punishement for homosexual behavior, modelling, and all other modes of learning may well be involved even in sexual orientation.

If so, with homosexuality becoming increasingly more accepted in society, we might expect its incidence to increase as well.
Many historians understand homosexual behavior to have been a norm between mature men and younger boys in classical Greek and Roman times.
Most, if not all human behavior, may be undrstood as being learned. there is no real reason to believe that sexual behavior need be understood to be any different.

Personally though, I would doubt that classical conditioning would work in a lot of cases. Childhood sexual experiences and dysfunctional and horrendous heterosexual experiences can have more powerful effects on our behavior than anything that any trained professional can ethically repicate in his or her office.

Then how do you explain 12 people, all brought up in homes with a negative feeling towards homosexuality, becoming homosexual? I have ALOT of gay and lesbian friends, and in talking to thier parents, only 1 set of parents is even moderately comfortable with the idea. So I fail to see how they could have learned about, let alone be encouraged to do, homosexual behavior in such an evironment.

 

[joebudda]

This isn't exactly true. I'm not saying that homosexuality is a learned behavior. In my opinion, it is a combination of nature and nurture. I have yet to take the sexuality class in my psych courses yet. This is mainly because I want a firm grasp on psychology before I tackle the issue so that I can reason it out better. But, back to the point, your argument is slightly flawed here.

If sexual attraction is a learned behavior, then everyone would not be given a 50/50 chance. Homosexuals would have to fit into a certain niche, that fewer heterosexuals would fit into. Think of the brain as a brick wall. The lowest layer is made up of genetic qualities as well as hormonal qualities. A homosexual will have a predisposition to homosexuality. So, there, the first bricks are laid. Now, think as the next couple layers as young age. If a child is molested by someone of the opposite sex, they will subconsciously fear this sex, even if it is at a young age. There is another layer. Other factors would contribute to this. If a child grows up in a family that is only of the same sex as the child, they are more likely to identifiy with this sex. Another layer. It goes on and on from here, until you have a... for lack of better description... big gay wall.

I am not saying that all homosexuals were molested, or the likes. I'm just trying to point out that there is a niche that others wouldn't fit into, and for many, this is the way that it works.

Did I just make myself sound totally foolish?

I think I am following you.

Then you must take into account there is the whole spectrum of sexual orientation. There is also the whole spectrum of physical sexual traits and organs the most extreme being the hermaphrodite.

 

[Thirst_For_Knowledge]

I think I am following you.

Then you must take into account there is the whole spectrum of sexual orientation. There is also the whole spectrum of physical sexual traits and organs the most extreme being the hermaphrodite.

Of course.

 

[SolomonVII]

Then how do you explain 12 people, all brought up in homes with a negative feeling towards homosexuality, becoming homosexual? I have ALOT of gay and lesbian friends, and in talking to thier parents, only 1 set of parents is even moderately comfortable with the idea. So I fail to see how they could have learned about, let alone be encouraged to do, homosexual behavior in such an evironment.

Not knowing the specifics, there is a lot of ways it could be explained, allor none of which could be right or wrong.
First, being brought up in a home with negative feelings about homosexuality,is it possible that the family members themselves are homophobic ie closet homosexuals?
Second, how much is the behavior a form of normal rebellion against what is perceived as a means of becoming independant?
Third, is sexual behavior solely being modeled by ones parents or family members? Parents realise by about the time that their kids reach grade school just how unimportant they have become. There is a whole world out there where people's behaviors are being shaped by the behavior of their peers and the people that they respect the most- hey, possibly even you! (You sound like a very warm and supporting guy, after all).

Also, when it comes to modelling sexual behavior, sexual pleasure and [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] is its own intrinsic reward. And the fruit that is the most forbidden often has the greater lure.

 

[kdet]

Today we were debating the Defense of Marraige act in Government. One rather...un-educated young woman spoke up and said "Well they should just stop being gay and that would solve it." Ive heard many similar, though less direct, arguments from pro-DOMA (Defense of Marraige Act) Christians.

My question is how? How do you just STOP?

Through the help of God and the Holy Spirit.

http://www.sbministries.org/

 

[SolomonVII]

Your first part does have a point. I believe all children are born bisexual... or rather... nosexual. It is the way that things work out, that gives them their sexuality.

Perhaps not sexual in a mature sense, but children are intrinsically sensual. They actively seek contact with people, and the people that they seek contact with are sexual.

 

[Antoninus Verus]

Supposing I even believed that being gay was a choice, I would agree with you if there was only 1 or two people. But 12 people? Having MET each and every one of thier parents, and much of thier extended family, by way of being close friends with them, some of them do fit with the situations that you suggest, but for the most part, none of them do.

Taya is the best example. Straight A student, always does the right thing, very good kid, shes not rebelious in any shape of the word. Her parents are very good people, theyre uncomfortable with homosexuals but not homophobic, she is treated well and has a happy home life, she is one of the only people I have met that has not been through massive depressive episodes at the age she's at. And before you even bring it up, shes a HORRIBLE liar so yes I know shes not hiding things, I know when that girl has an ITCH, she cant hide something as big as depression from me.

 

[Antoninus Verus]

Through the help of God and the Holy Spirit.

http://www.sbministries.org/

**Long blank stare** Yeeeeahhhh....dyou know what a televangelist is?

 

[Eve_Sundancer]

Through the help of God and the Holy Spirit.

http://www.sbministries.org/

How many people exactly have been "helped" by this? Have they followed up on each person that took part to see how happy they still are? Does anyone here know anyone personally that was helped by something like this? Were those individuals truly homosexual or were they in fact bisexual? Are the testimonials even true, or are they like infomertial testimonials?

 

[kdet]

How many people exactly have been "helped" by this? Have they followed up on each person that took part to see how happy they still are? Does anyone here know anyone personally that was helped by something like this? Were those individuals truly homosexual or were they in fact bisexual? Are the testimonials even true, or are they like infomertial testimonials?

Well, I know I am happy and that my testimony is true. And I know others also
http://www.pfox.org/

 

[kdet]

**Long blank stare** Yeeeeahhhh....dyou know what a televangelist is?

Do you know what faith is???

 

[kdet]

Supposing I even believed that being gay was a choice, I would agree with you if there was only 1 or two people. But 12 people? Having MET each and every one of thier parents, and much of thier extended family, by way of being close friends with them, some of them do fit with the situations that you suggest, but for the most part, none of them do.

Taya is the best example. Straight A student, always does the right thing, very good kid, shes not rebelious in any shape of the word. Her parents are very good people, theyre uncomfortable with homosexuals but not homophobic, she is treated well and has a happy home life, she is one of the only people I have met that has not been through massive depressive episodes at the age she's at. And before you even bring it up, shes a HORRIBLE liar so yes I know shes not hiding things, I know when that girl has an ITCH, she cant hide something as big as depression from me.

I've met more people than twelve that did make that choice...soooo.
http://www.pfox.org/

 

[Antoninus Verus]

I have lived with/around gays MY ENTIRE LIFE. There was not a day of my scholastic life that I was NOT friends with someone who was gay. A vast majority of my friends now are gay. And I have not ONCE heard of an "Ex-gay". I have NEVER ONCE met someone who actually was gay and actually became straight. Ive met PLENTY of girls who go "Oh Im bisexual" but the second a girl even looks twice at her, that "bisexual" atitude disapears mighty fast. Met ALOT of those, but NEVER have I met an ex-gay.

 

[Eve_Sundancer]

Well, I know I am happy and that my testimony is true. And I know others also

I'm glad you're happy with who you are now... but the thing that gets me is the fact that everyone is different. Maybe something like that works for some but not for others. Maybe someone doesn't want to be "fixed". Maybe they are content being themselves. Maybe that's who they should be.

 

[Antoninus Verus]

Do you know what faith is???

No I got it as a prize from a damn Wheaties box

 

[kdet]

I have lived with/around gays MY ENTIRE LIFE. There was not a day of my scholastic life that I was NOT friends with someone who was gay. A vast majority of my friends now are gay. And I have not ONCE heard of an "Ex-gay". I have NEVER ONCE met someone who actually was gay and actually became straight. Ive met PLENTY of girls who go "Oh Im bisexual" but the second a girl even looks twice at her, that "bisexual" atitude disapears mighty fast. Met ALOT of those, but NEVER have I met an ex-gay.

LOL...I'm 42 years old and I have been around homosexuals my whole life. I've known women who have been sexually abused by their fathers and chose to have lesbian relationships, I've known men who were sexually assaulted at a young age by older men and were convinced that they were homosexual, and I've seen and talked with and know MANY that God has delivered out of that sexual bondage and have saved from that spiritual and physical death sentence.

http://www.pfox.org/Testimonials.asp

 

[Eve_Sundancer]

Those are all people who underwent trauma and were sexually oriented a certain way because of that. Did you know anyone that wasn't like that, that was just homosexual without being traumatized as well? I surely hope so.

 

[kdet]

I'm glad you're happy with who you are now... but the thing that gets me is the fact that everyone is different. Maybe something like that works for some but not for others. Maybe someone doesn't want to be "fixed". Maybe they are content being themselves. Maybe that's who they should be.

And ANY person trapped in sin could say the same, but God calls us to CHANGE to no longer be slaves to our flesh but to become new creature in Him.

WE BECOME A NEW CREATURE IN CHRIST
​

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. - 2 CORINTHIANS 5:17