How do you know that God exists?

[Andrew12]

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[bling]

Actually, I already did so. After my best friend died during the 9/11 attacks on the World Trade Center, I went to church, and I prayed to God. I asked him to save the soul of my friend, and to let me know if he's happy in heaven. I studied the bible and I prayed for weeks, without getting an answer from God. After all this weeks, I found out that his mother killed herself, and I wondered why God didn't give her the power to go on without her son. So I went to church again, and I asked God why he did this, and if he even existed. He never answered me. For some months, I've been waiting for his answer, and when I didn't get one, I realised that God did, in fact, not exist. I'm sorry, but I never "felt" God, not even once, and as life went on, I started to accept this knowledge, especially because it means that my friend doesn't have to spend eternity watching his mother burn in hell.

I hope that helped. I thank you all for your replies, and I would be happy to get more constructive replies in this thread.

So it seems now; you do not feel your friend is happily in heaven, because God did not let you know for sure he is there?

How does the fact God did not somehow miraculously tell you, “He exists”, tell you that God does not exist?

Would writing out a message to you specifically, with a big hand for everyone to see on the moon, cause you to believe He existed?

What change (outside just academic knowledge) if any would this make in your life, since you seem to be at peace with yourself right now?

As far as “evidence”, since the Garden, people have at least had the living world around them that begs for a response to “how could this be?”

If we learn anything from science it is “the more we know the more we realize we do not know”. If that is true; then we are constantly moving toward the God answer than toward any other answer (that is being a little philosophical).

You place a lot of emphasis on “knowing” the existence of God, but according to the Bible it has not helped humans in fulfilling their earthly objective, since “acknowledging” God’s existence is not man’s objective. Would it even be worse to acknowledge God’s existence and not care about Him?

You cannot do anything about the people that have gone on and God will be there fair, merciful, judge. I can tell you, no matter where they are, they are very concerned about you (according to scripture).

Maybe “Church” and maybe not even the bible and pray is the place you need to be going to find your answer?

Faith is needed, so knowing can be a handicap (this is a huge discussion).

 

[GrayAngel]

As I said, the size of the universe is so big that it more than makes up for the impropabilty for an event like the forming of life. Lets just assume the chance for a planet to be inhabitable is 0.00001%. We assume, there are 100000000 of stars in the universe, and we assume that every star has at least one planet. This way, we have a chance of 10%, if I am right, that one of the planets is inhabitable. Now, this isn’t much, either, I just wanted to show you that the chance for something to happen, no matter how small this chance may be, becomes much bigger if you have lots of occasions where this chance exists.
You see, its not as impropable for life to exist as some people believe. I don’t regard this as evidence for God.

The chances of finding a hospitable planet are much smaller than 0.00001%. The planet itself must have all the the necessary materials, a proper atmosphere, as well as proper placement from the star. Every star is not hospitable. Some are too big, too small, or are too dangerous to be around.

Not to mention, all of our stars follow the same laws. The same measures of gravity, for example, apply all around. What you neglect taking into account is the fact that our laws are static, they don't change, and so they can't adjust or experiment to see which laws are allow for the possibility of life.

Why does the universe work the way it does? There's nothing about the electron that makes itself circle the nucleus, but it does anyway. Is there anything about H2O that dictates it has to be a clear liquid?

Did the Big Band just happen to get it right the first time when it created matter and set the relationships for which the elements would react to one another?

Who says that this machine ever changes, or that the “God” who created the universe is anything like you portray them? He could just as well be malevolent or just plain apathetic to our existence. He could have created it and then abandoned us. With your reasoning, we still have no answer why Christianity is true, not Islam or even the lore of Lovecraft.

If the machine never changes, it couldn't adjust itself so that it could eventually create a proper universe. Without change, the universe-creating machine would be useless. With change, it fails to establish the starting point we're looking for.

The God of the Bible is as I described. He never changes, and He knows the future (able to see all time in front of Him). To Him, a day is like a thousand, and a thousand are like a day. I don't know if you've ever heard theories of the hypothetical dimensions beyond the third dimension, but one of the higher dimensions is one where all of time and space is seen at once, as if it were a single point. The first thing that comes to mind when I think about this is God.

However, if God is not as the Bible describes, and if He doesn't exist outside of time, then He's just as useless as the machine.

I'm not trying to prove that Christianity is the true religion. That would be a different kind of discussion. But what I'm trying to prove is how there must be a monotheistic God as a purposeful designer, who exists outside of time.

Now, about the start of the universe, I know that science doesn’t have answers for everything, but neither have you. Science can’t give you an answer of what the universe was like before it was “created”, or on how to create life. Religion, on the other hand, never gave humanity a satisfying answer on how to build cars, travel to the moon or on who killed John F. Kennedy.

What the universe what like before it was created? If there was a point where the universe didn't exist, then it wasn't like anything. And if there was nothing, how could something suddenly come out of that? We never see matter creating itself in our universe.

But, most importantly, just because we have no answer for something doesn’t mean we can put whatever we want into the blanks. If we assume that it must be God who created the universe in the first place, we still have no idea what he is like, or which religion is true. The only thing we know is that he exists, and nothing else.

Why not? We fill the blanks all the time. The very premise of this topic is that you've seen no proof that God exists, and your conclusion is that He doesn't.

I’d say it was the second part, although I don’t know for sure. Well, most of the time, I hear that everyone who commits suicide ends in hell because its technically murder and because our lifes don’t belong to us, but to God.

There is no clear answer for this. People disagree on the issue. The Bible doesn't say that people who commit suicide. You would think that if this were some unforgivable taboo, then God would have given a clear warning against it.

It's true that our lives belong to God, but we do lots of things with our lives that we shouldn't do, things much worse than suicide. David himself was an adulterer and a murderer, but no one would say that David went to Hell.

Jesus' blood forgives us for our sins. How is suicide different? There is an unforgivable sin, but it's not suicide.

The difference is, God is omnipotent. So what reason does he have for not helping us if we ask?

If God only helps us if we help ourself, then we can just go on without his assistance and do everything by ourself.

God doesn't deliver our every need on a silver platter whenever we ask for it. God leads us and directs our lives and the lives of others to provide for us. You could try to provide for yourself, but without God's providence, you won't have much luck. Fortunately, God provides for everyone, even unbelievers, but it's better for us to be on His side and to have that assurance.

 

[CGL1023]

Hello everybody. My name is Salo, and I registered in this forum to ask you a question that has been haunting me for some time.

My question is quite simple: How do we really know that God exists? Is there any evidence for his existence outside of the bible?

I appreciate any answers. Thank you.

Hello Salo,
You know of God's existence by His creation, the heavens above and the earth beneath us (Psalm 19:1-4). You interact with God through faith (Heb 11:6). I include references for those who would ask for bible authority.

 

[crimsonleaf]

Salo

What you have experienced is very common. Many of us will happily go to church, pray, believe in God, then all of a sudden something inexplicable happens like 9/11. A friend is lost; his mother follows. Where is the God of love and peace in all this? This almost always leads to someone re-examining their faith and seeking the answers you do.

Think back to the time when you did believe. Other people's friends still died; other disasters occured. But this time it was personal.

There is no proof for God but existence itself. You can believe that everything you see around you, the beauty, the savagery, the wonder, are all the result of chemicals accidently acting together and left to develop over millions of years. On the other hand you may see the hand of God at work, shaping, moulding, guiding, directing.

It's good that you've come here looking for answers. You maybe don't disbelieve in God, but rather feel that you have been hurt by His inexplicable actions. Just ask yourself whether the bad things in the history of the world led you to not believe in God, or just the bad things that were closer to home. Once you've examined that question and opened your eyes to the wonder of the world, then you'll know.

 

[chilehed]

Hello everybody. My name is Salo, and I registered in this forum to ask you a question that has been haunting me for some time.

My question is quite simple: How do we really know that God exists? Is there any evidence for his existence outside of the bible?

I appreciate any answers. Thank you.

Here's a good place to start:

Peter Kreeft - Arguments for God's Existence

 

[twob4me]

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[razeontherock]

I don't know with absolute certainty that he doesn't exist, but I never saw him, felt him, heard him or saw any convincing evidence for his existence, so I concluded that he doesn't exist.

How is this conclusion rational? It's like saying I picked up a rock and looked under it, and didn't find any clouds therefore there is no such thing. OTOH one can climb a mountain under the right conditions and immerse oneself in a cloud ...

 

[razeontherock]

Yep! I have witnessed God saving me from what seemed like an unconsolable, bad "downward spiral;" Miracles.

Sometimes I think of things that I know God doesn't want me to be thinking of and something will make a "snap out of it" sound...like a horn honking, or a bird flying into the window of the room that I'm sobbing uncontrollably in...I believe he's always giving us "snap out of it" signals but sometimes it takes learning how to tune into them more deeply.

That's a very good place to be!

(2 Cor 10:5) "Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ"

Our OP asked for "bear tracks." My answer: look in the mirror! (Figuratively. This little bit of conversation here enters into the realm of our mind and consciousness that I really refer to)

 

[leftrightleftrightleft]

Hello everybody. My name is Salo, and I registered in this forum to ask you a question that has been haunting me for some time.

My question is quite simple: How do we really know that God exists? Is there any evidence for his existence outside of the bible?

I appreciate any answers. Thank you.

Depends what you mean by "know" and depends what you mean by "evidence".

The most compelling way to know God exists is by meeting him. You might read articles about Mount Everest, but the only way to truly know Mount Everest exists is to go there and experience it. Experiencing God is more compelling than any article, book or "proof" I can offer.

However, there is evidence that God exists, just as there is evidence that Mount Everest exists. However, with any piece of external evidence, you can always have doubt and remain skeptical of that evidence because all pieces of evidence require assumptions to be made. If you are given a picture of Mount Everest, you must assume that the picture really is of Mount Everest. If you are given a map of the world, you must assume the mapmaker is correct. Similarly, doubts and assumptions are present in any piece of evidence for God.

Evidence for God can be seen in the Bible, in the universality of spirituality globally, in the mathematical ordering of the universe, in the discrepancy between evolutionary biology and morality, in the irrationality of love, in the irrationality of art, beauty and music, etc.

None of this evidence will be compelling if you are a skeptic because all the evidence has some assumptions built in.

I would suggest reading the Bible, continuing to go to church, going out into nature and meditating, and praying not for a literal conversation but for a profound experience. Just my thoughts because these are the places and ways I experience God. But I know everyone is different.

 

[thomhughes]

How do you know? Well that's the million dollar question, isn't it?

I suppose it comes down to the rather arbitrary act of faith. I believe He exists, and I felt great when I first admitted that and I feel His presence when I talk to Him through prayer. Now, those feelings in themselves could be explained through psychology, but it doesn't change the (albeit scientifically unprovable) fact of His existence to me.

And therein lies the important aspect of God.

 

[If Not For Grace]

The Million $$ Answer is "The Tomb was empty". Either Jesus IS who He said He is OR Jesus was the biggest fraud that ever existed. Then there is other "circumstantial" evidence like the Universe, Nature, The Human Body etc that screams "i came from somewhere"..But the ? christianity hinges on is Do you believe
Jesus Rose from the Dead-? Simple Yes/No. Reseach it and decide-& there are accounts other than the Bible-you research you decide-you life hangs on that one decision. That is all.

 

[DCJazz]

Hm, how do I know that God exists...
I can't say that I know for sure. I suppose that's where faith comes in.
Don't get me wrong, I don't believe blindly. I don't expect all my sorrows to just vanish just because I'm a Christian. I am a very bitter man in a state of existential crisis. I lost my job in the Navy 3 years ago. I wrecked my car in October, and I lost my grandfather and my dog in the same week. That and I'm incompetent to boot and can't find a job, bad economy or not. I could easily blame God for my troubles, but I know that a lot of my problems are my own fault. I believe God is love.

But as far as why I believe in God, well, Creation is the main reason, I suppose.
Even if the odds of a habitable planet were 100%, there's absolutely no guarantee any sort of life would form on it, is there? Much less the number and complexity of organisms across and under the face of the earth. And those are just the ones we know about, too.

Stars dot the sky, and were/are used for many things, including navigation in ancient times; the moon reflects the sun and protects from meteorites and other space debris, as well as effects the tides; even the sun provides warmth and light for life here on Earth.

And then I begin to think how different people are from animals, and I can't chalk it all up to coincidence.

And that's just one reason why I believe in God.

 

[mikemack]

There is also the bible. A book so old it should be chalk full of errors when read today.

!

 

[Salo]

So it seems now; you do not feel your friend is happily in heaven, because God did not let you know for sure he is there?

Actually, I feel that he’s not in heaven at all.

How does the fact God did not somehow miraculously tell you, “He exists”, tell you that God does not exist?

If you go into a room and yell “is there anyone?”, and no one answers you, then you can conclude that there is a) not person in the room or b) there is a person in the room but he doesn’t want you to know he’s there.

Would writing out a message to you specifically, with a big hand for everyone to see on the moon, cause you to believe He existed?

Yes. Why doesn’t he do that?

What change (outside just academic knowledge) if any would this make in your life, since you seem to be at peace with yourself right now?

I would convert. What did you except?

As far as “evidence”, since the Garden, people have at least had the living world around them that begs for a response to “how could this be?”

This is no evidence. It begs for a question, yes, but that doesn’t mean that “God” is the correct answer.

If we learn anything from science it is “the more we know the more we realize we do not know”. If that is true; then we are constantly moving toward the God answer than toward any other answer (that is being a little philosophical).

And how is God supposed to be the answer for everything?

You place a lot of emphasis on “knowing” the existence of God, but according to the Bible it has not helped humans in fulfilling their earthly objective, since “acknowledging” God’s existence is not man’s objective. Would it even be worse to acknowledge God’s existence and not care about Him?

Yes, it would be worse. But according to you Christians, God is so merciful and fair and good that it would be impossible not to care about him if he existed.

You cannot do anything about the people that have gone on and God will be there fair, merciful, judge. I can tell you, no matter where they are, they are very concerned about you (according to scripture).

That would be the case if heaven existed, and this I doubt.

Maybe “Church” and maybe not even the bible and pray is the place you need to be going to find your answer?

Was in church, didn’t help me at all.

Faith is needed, so knowing can be a handicap (this is a huge discussion).

But according to your logic, I could have faith in anything, no matter whether it exists or not, and that would be a good thing. How is this a good thing? Am I a better person because I have faith in blue unicorns?

The chances of finding a hospitable planet are much smaller than 0.00001%. The planet itself must have all the the necessary materials, a proper atmosphere, as well as proper placement from the star. Every star is not hospitable. Some are too big, too small, or are too dangerous to be around.

The universe also has much more planets than just 100000000. Either way, the size of the universe makes up for the impropability.

Why does the universe work the way it does? There's nothing about the electron that makes itself circle the nucleus, but it does anyway. Is there anything about H2O that dictates it has to be a clear liquid?

How do you know there’s nothing that makes the electrons circle the nucleus? Some years ago, people didn’t even know there were electrons.
And concerning H2O: At the temperature were water is liquid, the particles move fast enough to move around freely around one another. If you have a pool filled with balls (I think we all know this from childhood), and you kick against it, the balls will change their order and move around freely for a short amount of time. This short amount of time, where there is no real structure between the balls, is similar to the state liquid H20 is in.

Did the Big Band just happen to get it right the first time when it created matter and set the relationships for which the elements would react to one another?

Maybe it didn’t and this was the 10^12th big bang? This brings us to the question about propability again. If the chance for a universe like ours to exist is indefinitely small, it could still happen if we have an indefinitely high number of big bangs that happen.

Why not? We fill the blanks all the time. The very premise of this topic is that you've seen no proof that God exists, and your conclusion is that He doesn't.

No, I just conclude that there is most likely no God and therefore it is futile to serve him.

Jesus' blood forgives us for our sins. How is suicide different? There is an unforgivable sin, but it's not suicide.

And which unforgivable sin? I hope you’re not taking about “rejecting God” or “not believing in God”, because otherwise, every child murderer could go to heaven just because he believes in God and prays for absolution. So you’re going to share Heaven with Josef Fritzl? Doesn’t sound like nice company.

God doesn't deliver our every need on a silver platter whenever we ask for it. God leads us and directs our lives and the lives of others to provide for us.

He directs our lives? What about free will? And why didn’t he direct the Jews around the Gestapo patrols looking for them? He either didn’t direct them, or he directed them into the konzentrationslagers.

You could try to provide for yourself, but without God's providence, you won't have much luck.

Well, so far I’ve been providing for myself quite well.

You maybe don't disbelieve in God, but rather feel that you have been hurt by His inexplicable actions.

No, I don’t believe in God. If I did believe in God, THEN I would have reason to feel like he betrayed me. But I don’t believe in him, so I am sure he didn’t hurt me. Aside from that, I think that from all the people in this forum, I know best whether I believe or not.

Just ask yourself whether the bad things in the history of the world led you to not believe in God, or just the bad things that were closer to home.

It weren’t the bad things that happened to me, but the lack of response from God to my prayers. The bad things that happen all around the world are just a good indicator that God doesn’t exist. How could a merciful, just God let the holocaust happen?

Here's a good place to start: Peter Kreeft - Arguments for God's Existence

And here’s a good place to start for you: God is Imaginary - 50 simple proofs

How is this conclusion rational? It's like saying I picked up a rock and looked under it, and didn't find any clouds therefore there is no such thing. OTOH one can climb a mountain under the right conditions and immerse oneself in a cloud ...

I tried to find God by praying, I couldn’t find him that way. I thought praying was the right way to find God? Was I wrong? Tell me, how can one find God?

There is also the bible. A book so old it should be chalk full of errors when read today

We have no eyewitness records for Moses dividing the sea.

 

[seekingagnostic32]

For what it's worth, I'm probably no longer a Christian as far as the religion goes and I'm told I'm not, so I guess I'm not, but I still believe there is a God of some sort and I have spoken with "him" (I'm using pronouns for convenience's sake) and he has answered! God is there but most don't reach out to speak with him or they are too unwilling to open their minds and hearts to the possibility of there being a higher power.

 

[CGL1023]

There is no rationale reason to believe in God. There is no physical proof there is a God. Yet for those who believe they see all the proof they need all round them! For those who believe, they can't understand how some can not believe!

That's how it is

But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong." (1Cor 1:27)

The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. (1Cor 2:14)

I would say that you are right as far as you are able to go. Without the guidance of the Holy Spirit you would not be able to get to the full truth.

But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. John 16:13.