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Carl Emerson

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@Carl, no, no, no, and no. The second question is probably the most slippery, since the Council of Nicaea decided which books to include. Still, no.

If I understand where you're coming from, you're of the opinion that one who hears God's voice will have no doubt that it's God's voice. Thus any doubt about the authenticity of the voice is itself evidence of inauthenticity. Is that right? Your old friend Neville (may he rest in peace) seemed to disagree.

Will address other posts later when I have more time.

Underpinning this issue is whether or not we have a Loving God who wants us to know the Truth and not be deceived.

This same Loving God has watched over the presentation of Scripture so all generations have access to His Truth.

I have never said "any doubt about the authenticity of the voice is itself evidence of inauthenticity." in fact commonly one gives the way forward our best shot and we seek direction and correction as we travel.
An encounter with Him, like Paul and Isaiah had is quite different than the guidance we experience by hearing His voice as we travel on The Way.

However we come back to your 'NO's' and without being born again and having His Spirit within you you will lack the Spiritual discernment to answer YES.
 
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notworthconsideration

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Some visionaries have said that if you encounter God or receive a message from God, there will simply be no doubt. But many have said that one must learn to recognize God's voice, appearance, etc., to avoid deception by devious spirits or even by oneself.

If you encounter an entity claiming to be God or to speak on behalf of God, how do you know if it is what it says?

If you're thinking of pasting 1 John 4:2, please to read this first. (That's just a part of the problem with that approach.)
For the poor in spirit:

He won’t have to tell you who He is… He will show you. But always ask questions, the more interest you show, the more compelled He is to show you more- and it’ll always coincide with scripture, but will provide a deeper understanding of Him.
God wants you to ask if it’s Him; He understands humility, but be bold at least once and ask Him to direct you to how to get to Him.
To see His smile, his eyes, will change how you see yourself- and others.

Satan cannot deceive you “in the spirit,” that is God’s place. When you’re focused only on the ‘things of God’ and not God, Himself, then satan can mimic what you expect to see…
 
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ViaCrucis

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Some visionaries have said that if you encounter God or receive a message from God, there will simply be no doubt. But many have said that one must learn to recognize God's voice, appearance, etc., to avoid deception by devious spirits or even by oneself.

If you encounter an entity claiming to be God or to speak on behalf of God, how do you know if it is what it says?

If you're thinking of pasting 1 John 4:2, please to read this first. (That's just a part of the problem with that approach.)

Jesus said that we can know God and meet God in and through Him. "If you know Me, you know My Father as well, you have known Him and seen Him." (John 14:7).

Jesus said,

"I will not leave you as orphans, I will come to you. Before long, the world will not see Me anymore, but you will see Me. Because I live, you also will live. On that day you will realize that I am in My Father, and you are in Me, and I am in you." (John 14:18-20)

"All this I have spoken while still with you. But the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. Peace I leave with you; My peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid." (John 14:25-27)

Jesus promised also, when He took bread and wine at His Last Supper,

"This is My body" and "This is My blood of the new covenant".

Christians not only have the Holy Spirit, who being our Comforter bears Christ to us, and through Christ His Father. But we have the word and promise of Christ that He is there in Word and Sacrament. When we come together for His Supper, we receive His body and blood (1 Corinthians 10:16). He said to us, "When two or three are gathered in My name, I am there". He said "Lo, I am with you always, even until the end of the age."

The Church is the Mystical Body of Christ. Christ is here, in the midst of those who believe in Him. Therefore God is with us.

We don't need any special experiences. God is right here.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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DragonFox91

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@Dragon, does the absence of any one of those disqualify any experience? Some theists I've known (or known of), including Christians, who have claimed to have met God have said their experiences and the messages they received were of a private nature. And I remember a story by one visionary about a Marian apparition he thought had been sent by God because he had the same sense of "peace" as with an earlier apparition of Jesus, but he later concluded that it was an evil spirit in disguise.
Sorry for the delay w/ this. Was just searching for other testimonies of encounters & this thread came up. An abcence of one, no, but one alone isn't enough. He knows how easily dec'd we are. In the Bible he is constantly giving the same individuals multiple signs, so they know it's him & isn't chance, of their own doing, or something someone or something else is doing. He continues to work that way to this day.
 
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BobRyan

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The LORD GOD Almighty is ABSOLUTELY sovereign.
nothing happens unless it's in his Will for it to happen.
He's in control ALWAYS.
God "allows" people to curse Him, take His name in vain, burn bibles, rape and murder but does not command them to nor "will" them to.

What He "wills" is that they have some degree of free will to express their true choice and nature.
 
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dwb001

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1693833516294.png
 
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Mannabar

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In the first video an atheist chinese woman is giving her testimony about encountering God speaking to her while on vacation in her twenties in China.
What's her name? In what part of China did this happen, and when? Has she witnessed elsewhere (besides YouTube)?
The drug addict and her brother were muslims that got caught up in drugs and new-age spiritism.
What are their names? Where are they from?
I will post the website for the muslim example above.
Did you find the right url?

My first encounter was a 8 years old and I had no issue identifying what was happening, having learned about Jesus in Sunday school and having believing parents.
What was it like, if you don't mind sharing? I don't recall older posts about it, but I may have missed or forgotten.
However we come back to your 'NO's' and without being born again and having His Spirit within you you will lack the Spiritual discernment to answer YES.
What if I had said yes to the first question?

To see His smile, his eyes, will change how you see yourself- and others.
That reminds me...

We don't need any special experiences. God is right here.
Because he is omnipresent, or because you did the rituals with the water and wine correctly?

I want to believe God is right here, or at least I think some part of me wants it. :(

Dragon[user], it's okay. I don't reply quickly either.
 
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Carl Emerson

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What was it like, if you don't mind sharing? I don't recall older posts about it, but I may have missed or forgotten.

Pretty straight forward...

I remember exactly where I was in the house at 8 years old - suddenly in suspension Jesus appears standing, and first says who He is. Then His message to me was that there will be nothing in this life that I do, that He will not see. Then gone - just like that. He is El Roy - the God who sees. So deep respect early in life and eventually at 13 repentance and total commitment resulting in rebirth.

I had a very devout Grand Mother who lived to 99 and prayed for me every day. I am indebted to her faithful life, and my mother who died 98 and was a gifted intercessor.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Because he is omnipresent, or because you did the rituals with the water and wine correctly?

I want to believe God is right here, or at least I think some part of me wants it. :(

Both, though it's not about doing rituals correctly; it's about God's promise to be and act through His means of grace.

In the Lutheran tradition we speak of faith as a gift from God and a work of God. Faith doesn't arise from reason, as a property of the will or intellect, but is something which comes from outside of ourselves. God uses His means of grace, Word and Sacrament, to give, create, work, and strengthen faith.

In the Gospels a man comes to Jesus saying, "Lord, I believe, help my unbelief!" I think very often we commonly think that faith and doubt are opposites; or that if one has faith one doesn't doubt, or if one has doubts one doesn't have faith. I don't believe that's true. The person with faith struggles.

I have often said that if someone told me they believe, but have never experienced doubts or struggle, I'd wonder if they really do believe. So when I hear someone say "I want to believe", to me that says much. That person who wants to believe is not a person entirely without faith. But like a seed planted in soil, it must be watered, fed, and allowed to sprout and grow.

And that also remains true of every baptized Christian--to be watered, fed, in conditions to grow. That's the importance of God's means of grace. That Jesus created a community of people who call Him Lord and Teacher, and He instituted means in which the promises of God are attached. So Jesus said, "make disciples, baptizing them" and He took bread and wine saying, "This is My body" and "This is My blood", He told His apostles to proclaim forgiveness in His name, etc. So that, in this community of faith we call the Christian Church there is hearing the promises of God (the Gospel), the Sacraments such as baptism and the Lord's Supper, etc. So that, like a greenhouse is designed to have the right conditions for plants to grow, so is the Church God's house in which He causes us to grow. That there is community and place in which we experience and encounter Jesus Christ as He gives Himself to us and shares Himself with us--through the pulpit by preaching, through the altar where the bread and wine are consecrated, through the baptismal font where there is new birth. So that in every corner, every wall, every liturgical act, every hymn sung, and every Scripture read, Jesus is there--giving Himself, sharing Himself, working in our midst as He promised, "Where two or three are gathered in My name, I am there".

In that sense, then, you have met God--you've met God whenever the name of Jesus is exalted, whenever you have heard that He loves you, that Christ died for you, that Christ has been raised from the dead, and your sins are forgiven by what He has done for you. There was God, there is God, in what you have heard.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Hawkins

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Some visionaries have said that if you encounter God or receive a message from God, there will simply be no doubt. But many have said that one must learn to recognize God's voice, appearance, etc., to avoid deception by devious spirits or even by oneself.

If you encounter an entity claiming to be God or to speak on behalf of God, how do you know if it is what it says?

If you're thinking of pasting 1 John 4:2, please to read this first. (That's just a part of the problem with that approach.)

Unambiguous communication, such as how God communicating with the prophets, is by means of a "time trick". Humans are incapable of 1) telling a future, and 2) breaking the physics governing our universe. God makes use of prophecies and miracles to confirm to the prophets that He's God.

Example,
God asks you to bring a cup to a person living 3 miles away from your home. The Holy Spirit may guide you to the message, say by telling you to do so in a dream. In order to confirm that the message is from God, the Holy Spirit would also tell you to pay attention to a miracle to the cup, that is, the miracle is not random it's closely tied to the message itself. The message is about the cup, the miracle performed would also be through the cup. So one day 1 you noticed that there's a crack on the cup which draws your attention (actually the Holy Spirit is working on you). Then on day 2, the crack disappeared. Now the prophet knows unambiguously that his message at hand is truly from God.

In a similarly fashion, this can also be achieved by a prophetic dream. Say, in the dream the Holy Spirit even told you the name of the person you are going to meet, who you never knew and is living 3 miles away. So you bring the cup, and perhaps together with your doubt, to the guy's home 3 miles to discover that his name is truly as told in your dream. In this case, the "time trick" is a prophetic dream serving the purpose of making the message unambiguous, afterward though.

By similar fashion, one may be guided not only to a simple and straight forward message, but also to a most complicated message a human can ever read. A most complicated and multi-fold message can drive one insane if not properly guided (it is an explosion of inspiration).
 
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