How do you keep the Sabbath?

[- DRA -]

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Hmm, only Jews were created by God? That's the reason God gave when He gave the commandment.

Dr. William Mead Jones figured that if the bible is true (and he believed it was) then if the Sabbath was made for man (per Jesus) then we should be able to find evidence for it in human languages (from the time of the Tower of Babel). He found that in over 100 languges (and I found 2 he didn't know about) that the seventh day of the week is known as "sabbath."

Ex 31:14 (NKJV) You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people.
Ex 31:15 Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
Ex 31:16 Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant.

And,

Heb 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.
Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.
Heb 8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah--
Heb 8:9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
Heb 8:11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them.
Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more."
Heb 8:13 In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

From those texts, I determine that the Sabbath was indeed given to the Israelites or Jews, and was a part of the "first covenant" that ended when the "better covenant" (the gospel of Christ) came into effect.

Agree?

 

[- DRA -]

The Sabbath was NEVER abolished. YAHSHUA did not come to abolish the laws and prophets but to fulfill them!Matthew 5:17-20
I recommend you to go to these sites:

http://www.amightywind.com/fastfood/sabbath/obedience.htm
http://www.amightywind.com/fastfood/wolves/sabbathchanged.htm

I checked out the websites you posted. Neither addressed Acts 20:7 (NASV) - " Now on the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul, ready to depart the next day, spoke to them and continued his message until midnight." I have to wonder why this passage wasn't addressed. Doesn't it clearly tell us the disciples (Christians) came together on the first day of the week -- not the seventh day (the Sabbath)?

As for Matthew 15:17-20, it is agreed that Jesus did NOT come to destroy the law of Moses. Rather, He fulfilled it. The issue is what happened to that law after it was fulfilled. I believe it ended when Jesus nailed it to the cross i.e. Colossians 2:14, Hebrews 8:6-13.

 

[- DRA -]

If you decide you're going to keep the Jewish Sabbath, just be sure you don't pick up any sticks or anything like that....or we'll have to stone you to death. And you'd better be doing it on the 7th day or you're not "keeping the sabbath" (scripturally) at all.

Ex 31:14 (NKJV) says, "You [the children of Israel - verse 16] shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people."

Also...if you decide you have to keep this law, you'd better make very certain you keep all the rest of them in the Torah as well. Otherwise, you're a goner.

Gal 5:1-4 says,
1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.
2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.
3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.
4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

I suspect the person who uses either one point from the old law or the whole old law as justification for what they practice today is a "goner." In essence, if the person was ever united with Christ, they become separated from Him by appealing to the old law versus the law of Christ for what they practice and believe.

 

[StevenL]

I'm not defending keeping a seventh day sabbath for believers......but

I've never been able to make the big leap from ".....the disciples came together on the first of the week (the word 'day' is inserted, not in the original text) to break bread...." to the common assertion that that verse was intended to mean that....they only got together on the first of the week to break bread and everyone was supposed to gather on the first of the week for some sort of worship "service." It just simply says that they at times did get together and eat on the first of the week. Any other idea is an addition by the reader/interpreter. I don't really see a basis for a commandment or even a tradition there.

But if you're going to keep the Jewish sabbath, the closest you're going to get to it now is to rest from Friday at sundown until Saturday at sundown. (Friday and Saturday did not exist in the Jewish timeframe...those are words based on the names for a Norse and Roman goddess/god.) But the Jewish sabbath is clearly the seventh day of the week.

Someone may have declared that Sunday was the "christian sabbath", but that declaration has no scriptural basis whatsoever and is not in any way binding on any believer in Yeshua/Jesus.

 

[djconklin]

I determine that the Sabbath was indeed given to the Israelites or Jews, and was a part of the "first covenant" that ended when the "better covenant" (the gospel of Christ) came into effect.

Agree?

No.

1) They knew about the Sabbath a month BEFORE the law was given at Sinai.

2) I explicity stated (slight edit!): "Dr. William Mead Jones figured that if the Bible is true (and he believed it was) then if the Sabbath was made for man (per Jesus) then we should be able to find evidence for it in human languages (from the time of the Tower of Babel). He found that in over 100 languges (and I found 2 he didn't know about) that the seventh day of the week is known as "sabbath."" This tells us that at one point in time ALL mankind knew about the Sabbath.
3) Jesus said that the Sabbath was "made for man." He didn't say just the Jews.

 

[djconklin]

I believe it ended when Jesus nailed it to the cross i.e. Colossians 2:14

1) If the Law was nailed to the Cross (i.e., done away with) then why did Paul write some 30-40 years later that the Law was "holy, just and good." Rather odd way to write about something that was no longer in force. If it was "holy, just and good" then why did it have to be done away with? The Law points out exactly how you are a sinner. Wouldn't you want to know so you can confess your sins to God and ask for forgiveness?
2) If the law was done with with then why in Col. 2:16 why doesn't Paul chew out the believers for keeping the feasts and new moons and ceremonial sabbaths? Instead the verse implies that the believers at Collossae were keeping the days and that it was critics who came in from outside and judged them for their eating and drinking (as the case may be) on the days that are then mentioned.

 

[djconklin]

I've never been able to make the big leap from ".....the disciples came together on the first of the week (the word 'day' is inserted, not in the original text) to break bread...." to the common assertion that that verse was intended to mean that....they only got together on the first of the week to break bread and everyone was supposed to gather on the first of the week for some sort of worship "service."

It's especially weird when you realize that it was our Saturday nite vs. Sunday morning. Then on the breaking of bread (supposed to be a communion service) if you read the text carefully you'll find that they (by that thinking) celebrated communion twice in less than 20 hours!

 

[djconklin]

I suspect the person who uses either one point from the old law or the whole old law as justification for what they practice today is a "goner." In essence, if the person was ever united with Christ, they become separated from Him by appealing to the old law versus the law of Christ for what they practice and believe.

Alright! Now, I'm a heretic!

I'll stand side by side with Paul then: LOVE IS THE FULFILLMENT OF THE ***!

 

[- DRA -]

I'm not defending keeping a seventh day sabbath for believers......but

I've never been able to make the big leap from ".....the disciples came together on the first of the week (the word 'day' is inserted, not in the original text) to break bread...." to the common assertion that that verse was intended to mean that....they only got together on the first of the week to break bread and everyone was supposed to gather on the first of the week for some sort of worship "service." It just simply says that they at times did get together and eat on the first of the week. Any other idea is an addition by the reader/interpreter. I don't really see a basis for a commandment or even a tradition there.

Agreed. The word "day" is added by the translators to clarify the thought. However, I don't think our study our study is complete without considering relevant passages. Agree?

Here's what I found based on the KJV ...

Mt 28:1
In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

Mr 16:2
And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.

Mr 16:9
Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.

Lu 24:1
Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.

Joh 20:1
The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.

Joh 20:19
Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

Ac 20:7
And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

1Co 16:2
Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

In every one of these passages, the word "day" is added by the translators to help us understand the thought. Is there anything in these passages that helps us understand what was meant by "upon the first (?) of the week?" I believe there is.

 

[- DRA -]

Originally Posted by - DRA -

I suspect the person who uses either one point from the old law or the whole old law as justification for what they practice today is a "goner." In essence, if the person was ever united with Christ, they become separated from Him by appealing to the old law versus the law of Christ for what they practice and believe.

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Alright! Now, I'm a heretic!

I'll stand side by side with Paul then: LOVE IS THE FULFILLMENT OF THE ***!

No one said you were a "heretic."

If you will be kind enough to allow me a little time to review your posts, I'll have a better understanding of where you are coming from. Then we can work on trying to reach a common understanding of the Scriptures.

Sound fair?

 

[New_Wineskin]

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God gave you one; are you trying to say that you know more than God?

Well , that ends that . I don't discuss things with those who lie about me .

 

[djconklin]

God gave you a sign. How is that a lie about you?

 

[djconklin]

No one said you were a "heretic."

Not in that exact word, but the meaning was certainly clear.

If you will be kind enough to allow me a little time to review your posts, I'll have a better understanding of where you are coming from. Then we can work on trying to reach a common understanding of the Scriptures.

Sound fair?

Sounds great.

 

[holo]

1) If the Law was nailed to the Cross (i.e., done away with) then why did Paul write some 30-40 years later that the Law was "holy, just and good." Rather odd way to write about something that was no longer in force. If it was "holy, just and good" then why did it have to be done away with? The Law points out exactly how you are a sinner. Wouldn't you want to know so you can confess your sins to God and ask for forgiveness?

Rather than go to the law which opposes us and is the only thing the accuser may use to accuse us, we should go to the Saviour who defends and aquits us, and also gives us what we need to live holy lives. What do you need the law for? You're righteous.

The law, however good and just and holy, had to be done away with because it never led anyone to righteousness, it was the ministry of death and the power of sin. The fault is not with the law, however. But in any case, whether or not the law still stands, we're DEAD to it. We have nothing to do with it. Or, at least I don't

I haven't missed it for a second, and I have no idea what I'm supposed to need it for.

2) If the law was done with with then why in Col. 2:16 why doesn't Paul chew out the believers for keeping the feasts and new moons and ceremonial sabbaths? Instead the verse implies that the believers at Collossae were keeping the days and that it was critics who came in from outside and judged them for their eating and drinking (as the case may be) on the days that are then mentioned.

Paul was a jew to the jews and a greek to the greek. He lived as though he had the law when he was with people who were in fact under it, in order that he may win some of them.

The law was never given to the gentiles, and the law is a whole - if you're under it, you're under all of it.

 

[StevenL]

Agreed. The word "day" is added by the translators to clarify the thought. However, I don't think our study our study is complete without considering relevant passages. Agree?

Here's what I found based on the KJV ...

Mt 28:1
In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

Mr 16:2
And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.

Mr 16:9
Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.

Lu 24:1
Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.

Joh 20:1
The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.

Joh 20:19
Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

Ac 20:7
And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

1Co 16:2
Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

In every one of these passages, the word "day" is added by the translators to help us understand the thought. Is there anything in these passages that helps us understand what was meant by "upon the first (?) of the week?" I believe there is.

Agreed. Good job. Thanks for the list.

None of that tells me I'm obligated to do anything on the first of the week. Just tells me some did a few times.

 

[Psalms34]

The law, however good and just and holy, had to be done away with because it never led anyone to righteousness

But the law was never done away with, it was not destroyed nor rejected as if it were flawed in any way or such. The law still exists, but as I mentioned it is fulfilled. Done away with and fulfilled are two different words with different meanings in the English language.

The law still exists but not as a school teacher for the Jews to follow and it was never meant for the Christian to follow. It exists as a Law that only one could fulfill and thus it is complete. What the law (and the profits) actually did is validate the ministry of Jesus Christ since He was the only one to abide in the Law and thus fulfill it which made Him the master of it.

Now when a person comes to Christ they are not under the Law but under Christ who fulfilled the law for us and through him we are accounted as having the Law fulfilled. So we may not live by the Law which is attached to the Sabbath, but in Christ who fulfilled the law in Him we live the Sabbath daily for we have entered into His rest.

Matthew 5:17-18 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

 

[Scorcher505]

The sabbath is Saturday, not Sunday. The Catholic Church changed the Sabboth from Sat to Sun because maybe Jesus rose from the dead on a Sunday... maybe. No one knows. But we do know that God rested on the 7th day and made it holy and COMMANDED us not to work on it.

 

[- DRA -]

...

Okay, I’ve reviewed your previous posts as I said I would do in post 50 on page 5.

Here’s how I view the thoughts you’ve posted so far …

Your first post (page 2, post 18) in this thread contains what I believe is an assumption – “to rest in Christ one day of the week.” But, maybe I’m mistaken. Please provide the scriptural basis for this statement, and identify the day we are to “rest.”

I also believe there are assumptions being made about Genesis 2:1-3. For instance, the passage says God blessed and sanctified the seventh day. I don’t see where that automatically implies or infers that mankind was commanded to keep that particular day. In fact, it isn’t mentioned again until Exodus 16:23. In that context, and in the giving of the law (of Moses) that continued, the command to observe the Sabbath was given exclusively to the Israelites.

I spent some time reading “Sabbath Truth – In the World’s Languages” about Dr. William Meade Jones. In short, Dr. Jones assumes God commanded the observance of the Sabbath in Genesis 2:1-3, and then uses that assumption to infer that Noah kept the Sabbath i.e. Gen. 6:9; 7:5. While it is agreed that Noah was a just man that obeyed what God commanded him, it is still not proof that he was commanded to keep the Sabbath. Frankly, I’m not exactly sure what Dr. Jones’ thoughts about all the languages was supposed to prove. I believe the Scriptures completely furnish us with all we need to know to serve and please God (2 Timothy 3:16-17, 2 Peter 1:3). So, I believe sound biblical reasoning is based on what the Scriptures say. Would you agree? If not, please explain how the Scriptures are lacking without additional input e.g. by men such as Dr Jones.

Now, to a select few specifics …

Post 32 on page 4. Ezekiel 20:12. Please help me fill in this blank. From verse 3, “Son of man, speak to the elders of _______, and say to them … (NKJV).” Now, let’s go to Exodus16. Please explain to us from the context who was being instructed in verse 23 to keep the Sabbath. My point? I don’t disagree that the Israelites were commanded to keep the Sabbath and to view it as a sign between them and God. However, the part of the story that I’m missing is how we get from what God commanded the Israelites under the law of Moses to what He expects of us (both Jews and Gentiles) today under the gospel of Christ.

BTW, I also have one more question about this particular post. Why do you acknowledge that we must observe the Sabbath, but NOT acknowledge the punishment pronounced on those who break it i.e. Exodus 31:14? Not sure, but your answer seems to be related to this quote from post 40 on page 4, “Some of God’s laws only applied to the theocracy.”
Please explain.

Post 28 on page 3. The conference is Jerusalem is used to answer the question about whether or not any part of the Mosaical Law was commanded to Gentiles. Note Acts 15:1,5,20,24,& 29. Is the Sabbath mentioned in those verses? Obviously, the Jewish Christians were trying to bind the old law upon the Gentile Christians, but the matter was settled. Only a few basic items that predated the law were commanded to the Gentiles – and observing the Sabbath did NOT make the list.

BTW, that particular post also refers to the “former God” and the “latter God.” Please explain.

Post 33 on page 4. Agreed, the law is “holy, just, and good” i.e. Romans 7:12. Let’s explore the context. Chapter 6 discusses the blessings enjoyed in baptism and how we are no longer in bondage to sin. Chapter 7 begins by discussing something else the Christians is no longer in bondage to – the law. Paul admonishes those once under the law to view it as a marriage, in which the two were bound together until death. However, the person that has been baptized into Christ has died (in a sense) … see 6:3-8. Thus, they are free from their marriage (to the old law), and are free to marry another (Christ) – having been delivered from the law (7:6). So, what about the old law? Was it bad? No, it was holy, just, and good (7:12). However, it was limited in what it could accomplish. It couldn’t take away sin. It identified it and condemned those under it, but could not take those sins away. Therefore, it was replaced by a better covenant – built upon better promises i.e. Hebrews 8:6-13.

So, could the Jewish Christians still practice things under the law? Take the matter of circumcision that came up for discussion in Acts 15. It wasn’t necessary to continue to observe this practice. However, later Paul had Timothy circumcised in Acts 16:3, but refused to have Titus circumcised in Galatians 2:3-5. As for circumcision under the gospel of Christ, God was indifferent about it (Gal. 5:1-16). However, for those who made circumcision a matter of faith, they found themselves indebted to keep the “whole law” – which resulted in their separation from Christ. Concisely stated, those who wanted to practice circumcision for whatever reason were welcome to, but could not make it binding upon others. This is the same principle I see being discussed in Colossians 2:16 and Romans 14.

Post 40 on page 4. You said to New Wineskin, “If you call yourself a Christian and chose to deliberately sin [NOT keeping the Sabbath] against God then we need to ask why you are doing that?” To me, that reveals you are treating the Sabbath just like some Jews were circumcision in Gal. 5:1-4, which leaves you indebted to keep the whole law – which means you are turning away from the gospel. Frankly, I encourage you to take to heart what the apostle wrote there. Not because you are a "heretic" (your wording -- NOT MINE), but because you are violating the principle being taught in that text.

 

[- DRA -]

God gave you a sign. How is that a lie about you?

In New Wineskin's defense, God gave the Israelites a sign in Ezekiel 20:3,12. If you are trying to apply that to New Wineskin -- or the rest of us, then please help us see the link between that passage and what we are to do today under the gospel of Christ.

True, Jesus said, "The Sabbath was made for man" (Mark 2:27). Post 45 on page 5. True, "He didn't say just the Jews." Exodus 16 and the following chapters say it was given to just the Israelites (or Jews). By the way, who was Jesus speaking to in Mark 2:27? Weren't the Pharisees a sect of the Jews (see verse 24)?

 

[- DRA -]

Agreed. Good job. Thanks for the list.

None of that tells me I'm obligated to do anything on the first of the week. Just tells me some did a few times.

The "list" wasn't intended to tell you what you are obligated to do on the first (?) of the week. I posted the list for consideration about what the first (?) of the week points to.

Now, since Jesus commanded that we observe the Lord's Supper (Matthew 26:26-29; 1 Corinthians 11:17-34), I think we should consider the scriptural evidence that discusses when the disciples observed it i.e. an approved example. Do you agree?

BTW, I suggest also considering 1 Cor. 16:1 along with verse 2.

Now, back to the Sabbath. Do you find any evidence the disciples assembled on the Sabbath day? Wouldn't the Sabbath be later in the week versus the first of the week?