• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

How do you defile yourself with a woman?

Sephania

Well-Known Member
Jan 7, 2004
14,036
390
✟16,387.00
Revelation Chapter 7

1 After this, I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth, so that no wind would blow on the land, on the sea or on any tree. 2 I saw another angel coming up from the east with a seal from the living God, and he shouted to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea,
3 "Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads!"
4 I heard how many were sealed - 144,000 from every tribe of the people of Isra'el:
5 From the tribe of Y'hudah 12,000 were sealed
from the tribe of Re'uven 12,000
from the tribe of Gad, 12,000
6 from the tribe of Asher 12,000
from the tribe of Naftali 12,000
from the tribe of M'nasheh 12,000
7 from the tribe of Shim'on 12,000
from the tribe of Levi 12,000
from the tribe of Yissakhar 12,000
8 from the tribe of Z'vulun 12,000
from the tribe of Yosef 12,000
from the tribe of Binyamin 12,000


Then we move ahead 7 more chapters to 14:

1 Then I looked, and there was the Lamb standing on Mount Tziyon; and with him were 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads. 2 I heard a sound from heaven like the sound of rushing waters and like the sound of pealing thunder; the sound I heard was also like that of harpists playing on their harps. 3 They were singing a new song before the throne and before the four living beings and the elders, and no one could learn the song except the 144,000 who have been ransomed from the world. 4 These are the ones who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are virgins; they follow the Lamb wherever he goes; they have been ransomed from among humanity as firstfruits for God and the Lamb; 5 on their lips no lie was found - they are without defect.
 

visionary

Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I.
Site Supporter
Mar 25, 2004
56,978
8,072
✟542,711.44
Gender
Female
Faith
Messianic

They probably never drank from the cup of abominations...

Revelation 17:4
And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

Nor assembled themselves by troops...

Jeremiah 5:7
How shall I pardon thee for this? thy children have forsaken me, and sworn by them that are no gods: when I had fed them to the full, they then committed adultery, and assembled themselves by troops in the harlots' houses.

nor associate with the kingdoms of this world, saying this is the kingdom of our God....

Isaiah 23:17
And it shall come to pass after the end of seventy years, that the LORD will visit Tyre, and she shall turn to her hire, and shall commit fornication with all the kingdoms of the world upon the face of the earth.

You remember when they declared...

John 8:41
Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.

I am sure that Yeshua wished it was true, that they were true to God, our Heavenly Father.

Acts 15:20
But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

So the biggest question is how do we abstain so that in us is no guile, when we are still discovering the roots of evil, learning the depths of some sins, seeing the branches for the first time, and just now starting to get the picture of what kind of fruit it will produce?
 
Upvote 0

P_G

Pastor - ד ע ה - The Lunch Lady
Dec 13, 2003
7,648
876
66
North East Pennsylvania
Visit site
✟13,348.00
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
I always too this to mean exactly what is said.

Why else would the line "they are virgins" be added?

Perhaps if stretched an admonition against polyigamy and relations outside of wedlock which was then and still is a major problem within the ranks of the faithful.

PG
 
Upvote 0

Sephania

Well-Known Member
Jan 7, 2004
14,036
390
✟16,387.00


those are the women of revelation...
how can you be ransomed and virgin otherwise?
 
Upvote 0

visionary

Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I.
Site Supporter
Mar 25, 2004
56,978
8,072
✟542,711.44
Gender
Female
Faith
Messianic
This is one of the philosophical questions....from teh concept of a thought, to the consideration of it...are we still "no guile" If while we are contenplating it...and we see where it would conflict with Torah....vaguely...you know, one of those...not clearly stated...but can be alluded to issues...and thus think it is a "maybe...maybe not" a violation of Torah. By "no guile" is that we stay on the safe side and come not near it....or....does as our mind quaffers over the controversy...we wonder if we are being pharaseed and not enough samaratain about it. In otherwords, could it be a good thing to get our hands dirty every once in a while to do a good deed?

Circular thinking....ramblings of a boggled mind....I tried not to bring up any particular incident, because so many times, issues of life come up and there you are in a quandry as to how to proceed...for what seemeth good...still does not feel right. What seemeth wrong...still doesn't seem all that bad.
 
Upvote 0

Sephania

Well-Known Member
Jan 7, 2004
14,036
390
✟16,387.00
I must be dense as a doorstop, I still don't see where that helps me to find out how you can be defiled with a woman. If it is as PG supposes ( and I used to think that) it means that every man that has sex with his wife obeying the commandment to be fruitful and multiply is defiling himself. That just doesn't make sense to me. The other hand of that would be that these are men that remained "virgin" in that they have never had sex, like a monk and I don't see where that is Biblical so I am trying to assertain what kind of defilement Yeshua meant. I am thinking defilement with a faith or belief in other gods.
 
Upvote 0