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I can see that, agree, and try to so denote, but I see postings here and elsewhere which do not seem even to have noticed the distinction.
Are you saying God can harden the heart in a person so he cannot believe - that God may take away a persons free will?
Chris B,
If God 'hated' Esau, why did God then give Esau, and his tribe, the area of Mount Seir?
I think you'll have to get the answer from someone else.
I know the principle of “no part of Scripture can be so interpreted as to deform the teaching of the whole of Scripture”
Or be read in such a way that it goes counter in sense to another passage of scripture.
But this is only safe if it is absolutely decided that a complete harmony is there to be found.
Otherwise, imposed from the outside, it demands and forces a unity or harmony, by denoting and discarding anything else as illegitimate and false understanding.
I struggled on a variety of passages with this principle for many years. I no longer hold it.
I can make many choices in a lot of things in my life but there is one thing I cannot choose and that is whether I want to believe or not. Nor do I think anyone can stop to believe by a free choice.
If nobody has a choice to believe in a god, how can anyone then be held responsible, i.e. be punished by this god which they don't believe in, for something which their will cannot control?
A belief cannot simply be a choice of the will, but something must trigger it. What is that trigger and why do not unbeliever get that trigger? (I guess I am saying you need evidence for you beliefs?)
That was a movie starring Tim Allen, wasn't it?
What it means "here" (in this thread) I don't know. But in Christianity it means that mankind was made to "have it all" but turned against God and forfeited that. Still, God was "good" enough to make it possible for some, at least, of his human creatures to be forgiven their transgressions and have eternal happiness with him anyway.
Incidentally, you said that God can be as evil to his creation as he wants. That isn't what I said and I wouldn't agree that God has been "evil" if he chooses some and doesn't choose others or if he punishes some for their own evilness.
Several years ago I had a "crisis of faith". Although I had been a Christian for over 30 years I started to doubt. The doubt lasted a few years, and I got sick of sitting on the fence. I knew I had to make a decision/choice one way or the other and live with it. I couldn't sit on the fence any more. It took a while longer, but I finally chose to "re-believe" in Christ. I still have questions that I likely won't get resolved this side of the grave, but I at least have both feet firmly planted on one side of the fence.
It's a choice alright, and not an easy one.
I chose to believe, as is evidenced by my current set of doubts. The doubts just don't rise to the level of affecting my belief.
I haven't ignored the doubts, I managed to work through them. My issue, more precisely, was believing the Bible 100% (I've always been an inerrantist). Ironically enough, I was writing my Master's thesis on the New Testament promises and came across a few that I couldn't reconcile with my understanding of reality (e.g., if someone has the faith of a mustard seed they'll be able to move mountains). After years of struggle, I finally concluded that my understanding of the Bible in these few instances must be incorrect. (I never have finished my thesis, so I'm still 60 pages short of having that degree :-(.)I'm not sure what you mean by "evidenced by your doubts."
I only asked because from the description you gave of your dilemma...it sounded like you believed but had doubts that troubled you, and you decided to just ignore the doubts.
Obviously I'm not able to look directly at your thought process. To me though, when someone says they are "on the fence" regarding an issue...it means they saw equal merit in both sides of an issue.
Your issue was believing christianity....right?
Did you see equal merit in the position of disbelief as you did the position of belief?
Or would you say it was more accurately described as "you believed...but had some troubling doubts."?
Nonsense. Most people who are atheists stopped believing by making a free choice based on knowledge. Most people who changed their beliefs as adults from one religion to another, did so by making a free choice.I can make many choices in a lot of things in my life but there is one thing I cannot choose and that is whether I want to believe or not. Nor do I think anyone can stop to believe by a free choice.
Everyone has a choice. However, strong childhood indoctrination into religion makes it difficult.If nobody has a choice to believe in a god, how can anyone then be held responsible, i.e. be punished by this god which they don't believe in, for something which their will cannot control?
You have it backwards. The "trigger" that causes most people to start out as religious is the indoctrination they received from their parents and close relatives in the early stages of their lives. Later, some overcome this early indoctrination as they learn to accept reality.A belief cannot simply be a choice of the will, but something must trigger it. What is that trigger and why do not unbeliever get that trigger? (I guess I am saying you need evidence for you beliefs?)
It sounds like you missed the point. If a person changes his religion or changes to Atheist, it's not because he decides to go against everything that makes sense to him. On the contrary it's not only a free choice (in theory) but it's because he is compelled to that decision by what has made sense to him.Nonsense. Most people who are atheists stopped believing by making a free choice based on knowledge. Most people who changed their beliefs as adults from one religion to another, did so by making a free choice.
I was born as mind-full child, thus I was born already as theist. I was theist in my mother's belly.I can make many choices in a lot of things in my life but there is one thing I cannot choose and that is whether I want to believe or not. Nor do I think anyone can stop to believe by a free choice.
If nobody has a choice to believe in a god, how can anyone then be held responsible, i.e. be punished by this god which they don't believe in, for something which their will cannot control?
A belief cannot simply be a choice of the will, but something must trigger it. What is that trigger and why do not unbeliever get that trigger? (I guess I am saying you need evidence for you beliefs?)
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