How do you choose a variation?

[mrcatzilla]

I've come here to ask a question:
How exactly does one choose which of the many Christian variations to follow?

 

[MLEN]

Hi,

For me, I asked God where I should be. I felt led by the Holy Spirit to be where I am now.

 

[mrcatzilla]

That's great, but not what I am asking. How do you choose between being Catholic and Protestant, or Orthodox?

 

[Van]

I know the answer, Mrcatzilla, choose the one I chose!

Seriously, lets think about a process. You have beliefs about Christianity, or so I assume. I have never met a atheist who did not hoard a boat load of beliefs as to why they rejected Jesus.

So, lets start with the idea that you have rejected God. You say, or so I assume, there is no god. If that is true, there is no reason to look for a church that presents the Word of God accurately.

Next, we must deal with accepting the Word of God, the Bible as reliable and trustworthy. Since you do not believe god exists, you reject the Bible as a creation of men, with perhaps some wisdom wrapped in much myth. If this is true, there is no reason to look for a church that presents the Word of God accurately.

Now if we get past these two, and deal with someone who believes in the God of the Bible, lets consider how they might look for a church. Now the word church means assembly, so a local church would be an assembly of believers in Jesus Christ. They would be making an effort to study and follow God's Word. The church would be inviting, with folks greeting you and making you feel welcome. The service would include worship and teaching from God's Word. It would be Christ-centered rather than say focused on political concerns.

The church would have a readily available information packet on "what we believe" or words to that effect. Do they believe in the Trinity? That Jesus is both 100% God and 100% man. Do they believe the Biblical miracles actually happened? Do they believe in salvation by faith alone, or are works required to keep from losing salvation.
Do they believe everyone who dies in unbelief is condemned, or do all roads lead to heaven?

Depending on how much Bible study the person has done, and therefore formed beliefs as to what the Bible actually teaches about God and Salvation, finding a "good" fit might be easy or more difficult. Do not expect the Pastor of the new church to hold exactly the same views as the Pastor of your last church, so long as Christ is at the center of his passion.

 

[Digit]

It's not really a choice like choosing which drink to have - it's a result of investigation, study and contemplation - I assume by variations you mean denominations.

I'm currently non-denominational but subscribe to various beliefs. Van here has a whole host of fancy terms I hadn't even heard of for my beliefs until I PM'ed him a while back, which really just shows that it's not a choice in the traditional sense - it's a belief, ie, cognitive content held to be true.

 

[childofGod31]

I've come here to ask a question:
How exactly does one choose which of the many Christian variations to follow?

Don't choose a religion, choose God. Don't look around. Look UP. God is UP there (and near you). Make it ONE on ONE with God. Talk to Him. Think about Him. Read the Bible to find out about HIM. Don't go to church yet (since you don't know which to choose). Get to know GOD first. The Bible is all about Him. Find His heart there.

Then the Holy Spirit will lead you and prompt you to choose whatever is right.

STUDY the Bible.

In order to FEEL loved by God, you need to fall in love with Him first. So study the Bible to find out about Him.

Here is a good free software (e-sword.net) it will let you search certain scriptures and read parallel translations side by side. Some translations are free and some you need to pay for. The most popular one (NIV, new international version is $30. But it includes kid's version. For new Christians, it's probably the best. It's written in an easy to understand language.)


I wrote a few things about Chrisianity. If you are interested,
Bible 101 • View forum - Exploring Christianity

 

[mrcatzilla]

I am sorry if some of you misunderstood me - I am not a believer, nor will I ever be for numerous reasons that are not really worth discussing in this setting. I will mention that reason and logic play a big role in my life. I am the type of person, to whom you have to prove your statement if it is to be held as true. This really annoys my parents, when they tell me, for example, don't mix cucumbers and milk. I will question that and look for info before I accept as a fact that this may cause my stomach to revolt. If I don't find enough convincing information, I will probably try it (and I have without much effect, actually).

I just wanted to find out - how is it that there are so many variations on this particular organized religion. Thank you.

I now understand that you choose whatever suits you best, in essence.

 

[St_Worm2]

I just wanted to find out - how is it that there are so many variations on this particular organized religion. Thank you. I now understand that you choose whatever suits you best, in essence.

Hi Mr. C, actually, I believe your statement is a little simplistic (since I also believe that God Himself is involved in this process), but it does get at the heart of the matter. I can't believe I'm going to use this analysis, but choosing a denomination is like choosing PJ's. Some folks may like cotton, some flannel, some nylon, etc. Some may like the flap while others may not .. But one thing they all have in common is they're all PJ's, it's just that some types feel more comfortable to one person than other types do.

It is said that there are 30,000 denominations. I don't know if that's true or false, but let's just say there are 20 denominations for argument's sake (cause I think I can name that many, anyway). ALL 20 denominations choose to emphasize different aspects of the faith and of God. Why? I think it's because we worship a God who is broader in scope than any one denomination (or single church) can possibly hope to express properly. There are those Christians, for instance, whose personalities draw them toward a more intellectual approach to worshiping God and the study of the Bible becomes the focus of that denomination. Nothing wrong with that. But that's not all there is to worshipping God and far be it from us to say that our way (or emphasis) is the best (or only) way ... much as we all in our human frailties would like to.

There are other Christians who are drawn toward the, let's say, emotional and/or experiential side of the faith. Nothing wrong with that either. It's not like a person who attends a charismatic church is not going to study the Bible, it's just not emphasized quite as much in that denomination as it is in the former type I mentioned. The cool part (IMHO) is that, although each of us is normally far more comfortable in one kind of denomination than another, we are forced to see that God, and therefore Christianity, cannot always be as narrowly defined as our personal tastes would like it to be. This is because when we look at the various denominations, radically different as they sometimes are, the things that are truly important, the core values and beliefs of the faith, are the same!! We're all wearing PJ's. The guy over there who's just claiming that what he's wearing are PJ's (but we can all see he's really wearing a wet suit instead), he's not part of us, even if he says or thinks he is.

Does this make any sense?

Gotta go, so let me know. If it doesn't, I'll try again. BTW, just to be perfectly clear if it isn't already, this is just my opinion.

--David
p.s. - the Protestant v RC v Orthodox thing is a little more complicated, but I'll discuss it with you if you'd still like to.

 

[ebia]

That's great, but not what I am asking. How do you choose between being Catholic and Protestant, or Orthodox?

Generally by relationships.

And, to a lesser extent, what suits your temprament and personality. If you like to think things through for yourself, you'll likely choose a tradition like Anglicanism that allows the space to do that. If you like to be told what to believe (and a surprising proportion of people do) you'll likely choose the RCC or something on the fundamentalist side.

 

[ebia]

I just wanted to find out - how is it that there are so many variations on this particular organized religion.

Partly because of human nature, but also because the truth is so much bigger than any tradition can cope with it's actually a good thing to have different traditions emphasising different aspects so that we balance, teach and call each other to account.

I now understand that you choose whatever suits you best, in essence.

To a fair degree, yes.

 

[Van]

Hi Mrcatzilla, yes, lots of people go to ear ticklers, but that was not what I said.

A Christ-centered church would not provide attenders with a "go with the flow" menu of beliefs, but would including taking risks for the sake of Christ, and sharing in the suffering of Christ. In other words, one that would facilitate becoming more Christ-like!

 

[mrcatzilla]

DaLeko
Pretty clear with the PJs =)

Van
I am not saying this to you, or anyone on this forum in particular, since I've generally been well-received here, but your words brought this up in my mind:
"You Christians are so unlike your Christ."

 

[Knee V]

mrcatzilla,

In my estimation, christians as a whole seek to believe and worship according to how they believe the first christians believed and worshipped. Some believe that that needed to be restored; some believe that it has always been there.

 

[98cwitr]

finding a congregation is like trying on clothes, different manufacturers say one size but they all fit differently, find out what fits and keep wearing that

 

[drich0150]

I just wanted to find out - how is it that there are so many variations on this particular organized religion.

Our denominations vary because we are so varied. There are those who have been given a strong intellectual mind, and for them there are denominations of the faith that will allow them to use that gift to it's fullest extent in worship to God. For others though, they have been given great emotion and a strong need to worship physically, through activity and outward praise. If you take the intellect and place him in a charismatic church he could not use his gifts to their fullest extent, and vise versa.

So long as our focus is Jesus, then like in sin, we will find forgiveness for the foolish doctrines contrived by man. why? Because if in our worship we are simply trying to Love the Lord with all of our being, we will be full filling the greatest command.

 

[St_Worm2]

DaLeko
Pretty clear with the PJs =)

Van
I am not saying this to you, or anyone on this forum in particular, since I've generally been well-received here, but your words brought this up in my mind: "You Christians are so unlike your Christ."

Hey again Mr. C, I must say I found your last statement to be a little disturbing at first, then fascinating. After all, for most Christians, pleasing God by being as "Christ-like" as possible is perhaps the central focus of our lives. If you'd be so kind, let me ask you a question that I have never asked before of an atheist, when you think of Jesus Christ, what do you see? What kind of a person do you believe He was? What did He do (or not do) that made Him "Christ-like" in your opinion, and what is it that you've experienced Christians doing (or not doing) that causes us to look like someone else than Him?

Yours and His,
David

 

[acorn_777]

That's great, but not what I am asking. How do you choose between being Catholic and Protestant, or Orthodox?

I have a question. Why would one think that is matters? Are we all not solely around the same concept. If you truly do want to know the difference, then upon some very heavy research into them all, you will find they are not all that different other than the style.

I can't speak for how people will treat one another in different churches, or judge one another, but as far as the actual belief makeup of all the denominations, the underlining facts are usually the same.

Just an example as I am non-denomination. Catholics believe in Christening as a baby. They believe it is necessary to baptize prior when the child is born. Most Protestants on the other hand believe in baptism at an age of accountability.

Jesus always spoke of children being innocent, pure, already having the kingdom of God within them, and Jesus said to be baptized.

It is just preferences. I have always viewed the different practices as a mix of social, individual, aspects applied in denominations. Up until the Protestant Reformation, there was no other option than the Catholic position, but now there are thousands.

Is the glass half empty or half full?

One could say, "Well, that is very confusing", or one could say, " That is really something that God would've made it possible for any person, with any preference, be able to follow His Son, in the way that makes them feel close to God.

The choice is yours. Good luck.

 

[mrcatzilla]

If you'd be so kind, let me ask you a question that I have never asked before of an atheist, when you think of Jesus Christ, what do you see? What kind of a person do you believe He was? What did He do (or not do) that made Him "Christ-like" in your opinion, and what is it that you've experienced Christians doing (or not doing) that causes us to look like someone else than Him?

It depends on what you mean by Him.
If you want to take a historical approach, there isn't much evidence of him, besides his mere existence.
If you want to take a biblical approach - he is a noble, caring, loving, healing person, ripped of all human vices and infused with all possible human goodness.

What I meant by that phrase though, is that Christians, historically, have been quite unlike Christ. Just remember Crusades and Spanish Inquisition, for one. Whatever happened to "do not kill"? When and why did it become "do not kill those who share the same faith as you"?

Jesus always spoke of children being innocent, pure, already having the kingdom of God within them

So what's with the human sin children are born with?
It seems kind of unfair, that if a child was born and then he/she died two days later, he's going to hell. Nice one, eh?

 

[seashale76]

I've come here to ask a question:
How exactly does one choose which of the many Christian variations to follow?

Which one rings true? Which one holds up when you look at history?

The short version of how I became Orthodox as it answers this question from my perspective: I was raised Pentecostal, was also a member of a Southern Baptist church for a short while, and sporadically attended an independent Christian mega-church out of the Campbellite (sp?) tradition. I looked into and visited all sorts of various churches over the years. I was ready to give it all up, completely, totally, irrevocably, for the absolute last time, and I meant it too. There were major problems I couldn't reconcile in all of the groups (Catholic and Protestant).

I began looking into other religions and philosophies and began calling myself a Deist. Long story short, I was a jaded and bitter individual. I felt I had good reason to be as I had a lot of negative religious/spiritual experiences. I understand where people are coming from who are angry, because I can relate to an extent. However, my bitterness began to turn into hatred of all things Christian, to the point where I started to see that I was becoming the sort of person I didn't want to be. I didn't like myself at all.

I didn't give up my search though. I read a lot. I sent desperate, pleading prayers out for God (if He even existed) to lead me to the truth. It was coming across Orthodox Christianity on the net that piqued my interest. I thought I knew everything about Christianity- enough to know that all the groups I was familiar with weren't going to cut it for me. I found the only Orthodox book at my local Barnes and Noble and bought the beat up and bent copy of it. I read it, I was cautious about it, I tried to dismiss it (but it kept coming to mind), and I eventually decided that I wanted to go visit an Orthodox church. (This wasn't my first time in an Orthodox Church, and in fact, I decided to visit the same church I had once visited when I was seventeen-roughly twelve years before- for a comparative religions class in college. It had fascinated me to the point it was all I could talk about for at least a week, but I had no desire in those days before the internet was more than a university thing, to look into the faith seriously at that time.)

If I recall correctly, I think it was the Orthodox teaching on hell that really swayed me. It’s not the same. I could never buy into the whole Jonathan Edwards’ Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God thing where God hates everyone and just specifically creates people to torment for eternity. It never rang true. However, reading about what the Orthodox Church believes regarding heaven and hell, it did ring true to me.

I was very reluctant to go back to any sort of church again. The first Sunday my husband (who was agnostic at the time) and I even turned around in the church parking lot and went out for coffee instead. However, we eventually made our way in for Divine Liturgy.

How does one explain to someone else about experiencing the presence of God? All I knew was that it wasn't simply my own emotions wreaking havoc with me- some things come from outside of ourselves- and people who know themselves well can discern this difference. (I was raised Pentecostal and I am rather immune to situations designed to manipulate emotions.) It was like being confronted with all of the answers to my questions after my long search. I knew I had to convert. God was there. Christ is in the Eucharist- which is something I had difficulty accepting as I was raised to accept a very different thing as being the truth- but have certainly experienced beyond a doubt since my Chrismation. Can I prove this to you? No. Were our personal experiences enough to prove it to me and my husband? Yes.

I essentially discovered a Christianity that is an entirely different religion from what I knew before. I had to start over again completely. I couldn't go back to what I thought I knew and believed. I just couldn't. There was something missing there, or I wouldn't have been unhappy enough to leave in the first place. We have the same holy scriptures and belief in the trinity, but everything else is radically different. I somehow knew it was my only chance when I discovered the Orthodox Church.

Except, I personally need the Church. I can't go it alone. I need the liturgy, I need the Eucharist, I need the prayers of the Church, and I especially need all of the sacraments of Christ's Holy Church . I need to go the hospital for what ails me; the ark of our salvation. I need the medicine of immortality.

 

[acorn_777]

So what's with the human sin children are born with?
It seems kind of unfair, that if a child was born and then he/she died two days later, he's going to hell. Nice one, eh?

If you are talking about original sin, that's not exactly the idea, though I am sure some see it that way which makes a point as well, some may think to baptize as a child, some may think children are pure until an age of accountability.

Just because a priest may say a child is going to hell if they are not baptized, doesn't mean they are going to hell. Jesus did say that above, so for me, I am more inclined to think that a child is pure until that age of accountability.

But, if I felt the need for my child to be baptized beforehand, then alot of Protestants do baptize if a parent requests.

The only person that knows who is going to hell is God. But, the original sin concept IMO is that A&E brought good and evil into the world at the same time. It says that they ate, and were able to see both good and evil. I am sure some would disagree to that, but IMO I see it as a combination event, a reflection that enabled us to see ourselves as good or evil, or others, or things, like God is able to do. God did say, Now they have become like us, being able to see..., so that tells me this is a event that happened contradicting their prior state, which the 'good part' isn't really in the traditional original sin concept, just that sin was brought into the world.