How do we Reduce Abortions?

[Shane Roach]

I can't tell whether I was being told something I said was off topic for a thread or what, so I will just move it here.

The ethical question is this -- do we not owe it to ourselves to take active steps to prevent the scourge of abortions in this nation? I have some ideas as to why it happens, and I was sharing them. I think they are important things to realize.

The big problem with abortion, frankly, comes well before the abortion. Abortion levels in this country are a direct result of sexual immorality and poverty combined. People behave in a reprobate manner, and then on top of that, when confronted with the responsibility of raising a child, many blanch at the lifestyle they will be forced to live should they have a child, especially if they had no father for the child worth speaking of.

People argue that Christians should not push their morality, but it is the morality that works. It's one thing to speak of the legitimate worthiness of mercy and love. It is quite another to just encourage people to behave irresponsibly and then give them an easy out that teaches that life itself is of little worth in comparison to what basically amounts to greed.

Our children should be taught how important parenthood is, not to look at sex as a game or mere entertainment, and that the taking of a human life, no matter how inconsequential, is a very very serious matter. A casual attitude toward taking human life, even in the earliest stages, breeds contempt for responsibility.

 

[Everlasting33]

Excellent post. I couldn't agree more!

 

[ebia]

How do we Reduce Abortions?


Improve education to reduce the instances of unwanted pregnancies
Give young people a vision for their lives, a high-self esteem, and the social skills to make choices that may go against social and peer pressures
Improve the quality and access to support for parents
Mitigate the disadvantage in education and opportunity that comes with young motherhood.

 

[Penumbra]

I can't tell whether I was being told something I said was off topic for a thread or what, so I will just move it here.

The ethical question is this -- do we not owe it to ourselves to take active steps to prevent the scourge of abortions in this nation? I have some ideas as to why it happens, and I was sharing them. I think they are important things to realize.

The big problem with abortion, frankly, comes well before the abortion. Abortion levels in this country are a direct result of sexual immorality and poverty combined. People behave in a reprobate manner, and then on top of that, when confronted with the responsibility of raising a child, many blanch at the lifestyle they will be forced to live should they have a child, especially if they had no father for the child worth speaking of.

People argue that Christians should not push their morality, but it is the morality that works. It's one thing to speak of the legitimate worthiness of mercy and love. It is quite another to just encourage people to behave irresponsibly and then give them an easy out that teaches that life itself is of little worth in comparison to what basically amounts to greed.

Our children should be taught how important parenthood is, not to look at sex as a game or mere entertainment, and that the taking of a human life, no matter how inconsequential, is a very very serious matter. A casual attitude toward taking human life, even in the earliest stages, breeds contempt for responsibility.

Do you have any specific ideas on how to reduce abortions, or no? I wouldn't blame you if you don't, because I don't, but this post in summary pretty much equates to, "Parents and schools should do better."

 

[Penumbra]

Improve education to reduce the instances of unwanted pregnancies

I very much agree that our education system needs huge improvement. Do you have any specific ideas in mind to what aspects, exactly, should be improved?

Give young people a vision for their lives, a high-self esteem, and the social skills to make choices that may go against social and peer pressures

Well, isn't this what good parents do anyway? Do you think schools should focus on this aspect?

Improve the quality and access to support for parents
Mitigate the disadvantage in education and opportunity that comes with young motherhood.

In what ways?

Just trying to encourage discussion with specifics!

 

[Allahuakbar]

But sex is entertainment. My wife and I will not have any more children, she is on birth control, but we have regular sex. This is because we enjoy it and want to have it. We did the same when we were younger and unmarried. Then, like now, we practiced safe sex.

Why lie to teenagers? Sex is a LOT of fun and always will be. They should wait until they are emotionally stable enough to have sex, but once they decide, be they 15 or 45, they should take the necessary steps. They should learn those steps in school, it is the most logical location.

 

[ebia]

I very much agree that our education system needs huge improvement. Do you have any specific ideas in mind to what aspects, exactly, should be improved?

That would depend on where the biggest weaknesses are in the particular education system being addressed.

Well, isn't this what good parents do anyway? Do you think schools should focus on this aspect?

Absolutely.

In what ways?

Ensuring the quality of advice available is the best possible. Particularly looking for ways to deliver that advice to those most in need - it's often those parents who least need the advice who access things like Maternal and Child Healthcare services, volunteer groups like Australian Breastfeeding, etc. Work needs to be done to address the reasons why the groups most in need of them tend not to access them.
Ensuring support systems are there to help young parents with all the different crisis they will face, not just those that are easy to help with and that access to these is genuinely universal. Providing the support that was once offered by extended families and communities.
Setting up systems that allow young mothers to continue their education effectively in modified forms.

 

[The Nihilist]

The ethical question is this -- do we not owe it to ourselves to take active steps to prevent the scourge of abortions in this nation?

No, I don't think we owe ourselves that, because I don't think abortion is that big a deal. If this were THE question, I'd think you'd have spent at least a little time trying to answer it, instead of just assuming that we do.

 

[seashale76]

In what ways?

Just trying to encourage discussion with specifics!

Well, I think one way is for employers and schools to provide free on-site child-care for parents. I think we all know people in all walks of life who spend a considerable amount of their already limited funds on child-care. Good day cares are expensive, hard to find, are usually far away from the parent's place of employment/school, and there is practically always a waiting list. I've known people who have almost lost their jobs for having to leave to go pick up their kids for various emergencies, etc.

 

[RobinRedbreast]

So.. in conclusion, your (The OP) answer to the abortion "problem" is.. to just yell louder? Because even children with amazing parents who teach them that abortion is wrong and sex is sacred, still go off and end up pregnant in some pretty sticky circumstances.

You didn't really propose any kind of solution to your apparent "problem" here in order to discuss it. All you did was say how children should be taught.

Many children are taught those values. And many of those children will still go on to be unwed teenagers who are pregnant, and some of those will still go on to have an abortion.

I suppose that's not the parents fault though .. it's "society". *eye roll* When it really isn't. It's just.. the choice of the mother.

So what should those parents have done, when they had already said and done all that they could? Locked up their kids? Or just yelled louder, apparently? Because they taught their children "right from wrong" as they saw it anyway, so perhaps they were just not speaking loud enough? (sarcasm, of course)

The ethical question is this -- do we not owe it to ourselves to take active steps to prevent the scourge of abortions in this nation?

Not sure who exactly is this "we" business? Because I'm ok with abortions.

So it's definitely not me.

But sex is entertainment. My wife and I will not have any more children, she is on birth control, but we have regular sex. This is because we enjoy it and want to have it. We did the same when we were younger and unmarried. Then, like now, we practiced safe sex.

Why lie to teenagers? Sex is a LOT of fun and always will be. They should wait until they are emotionally stable enough to have sex, but once they decide, be they 15 or 45, they should take the necessary steps. They should learn those steps in school, it is the most logical location.

Agree, and ditto.


But I have to duly note that no matter what the education of the steps is (as most of them DO learn the appropriate steps in school and/or from their parents), people (adults INCLUDED) still go out and make rash stupid choices anyway and end up in problematic situations, such as unwanted pregnancy.

Well educated people who were "taught right"? Still go on to have abortions.

And that's just their choice. *shrugs*


I notice a lot of the focus on abortion is all about the unwed teenager. I'm married, and an adult. I'm well educated (top grades all the way through), and I was raised well. But I do not want any children, and if we were to fall pregnant? I'd probably choose abortion. And that's my choice to make.

None of your archetypes and brainstorming "how do we fix this" even comes close to applying to me as an adult who makes up her own mind about the issues. I don't need to be "schooled" -- I've seen all the evidence. I've seen the "horror videos" trying to scare people out of abortion, I've seen facts on both sides, I've read the literature, watched the material, listened to lectures over the years.

And I'd still make that choice.

So I guess "yelling louder" really isn't gonna help the cause.. excuse me, your cause (definitely not mine), afterall.

 

[PassionFruit]

But sex is entertainment. My wife and I will not have any more children, she is on birth control, but we have regular sex. This is because we enjoy it and want to have it. We did the same when we were younger and unmarried. Then, like now, we practiced safe sex.

Why lie to teenagers? Sex is a LOT of fun and always will be. They should wait until they are emotionally stable enough to have sex, but once they decide, be they 15 or 45, they should take the necessary steps. They should learn those steps in school, it is the most logical location.

Shhhh......don't say that. If you do, then you're encouraging teens to go out and have sex. We don't want that!!!

No but in all seriousness, but I think it's more about how to reduce the need for abortions. That starts with reducing unwanted pregnancies.Yes, we can teach that parenthood is difficult, yes we can teach that sex is a big deal, but I think is important is preventing teens from finding themselves in a position where they feel they have to have abortions. I'm all for teaching abstinence, but reality says that all teens aren't going to do this, so I really think encouraging contraception use should be apart of education.

 

[quatona]

Abortion levels in this country are a direct result of sexual immorality and poverty combined.

First thing that comes to mind is that they are a direct result of lacking use of contraception.

 

[PsychMJC]

So.. in conclusion, your (The OP) answer to the abortion "problem" is.. to just yell louder? Because even children with amazing parents who teach them that abortion is wrong and sex is sacred, still go off and end up pregnant in some pretty sticky circumstances.

Didn't you see his point? That Christians (the True ones) with their superior morality NEVER have premarital sex. They NEVER have abortions.

The answer from his post is clear. His form of Christianity!

 

[Penumbra]

Does anyone here have any adoption statistics for developed countries?

If someone decides to have a child and let it go for adoption, is there a high chance or a low chance of a family taking that child in? Do race and gender play large roles?

I know very little about adoption.

 

[PsychMJC]

First thing that comes to mind is that they are a direct result of lacking use of contraception.

 

[Fantine]

How do we Reduce Abortions?

.

Lengthen the school day. Lengthen the school year.

"Idle hands are the devil's workshop."

Two big factors foster teen sex:

- too much free time;
- too great a time span between puberty and financial independence.

Lengthening the school day and school year will work as least as well as platitudes--and it will be more foolproof.

Not only that, our students will begin performing well on tests in comparison to Asian and Western European students.

Oh. Yeah. It costs money.

Platitudes don't cost money.

 

[ebia]

So.. in conclusion, your (The OP) answer to the abortion "problem" is.. to just yell louder? Because even children with amazing parents who teach them that abortion is wrong and sex is sacred, still go off and end up pregnant in some pretty sticky circumstances.

You didn't really propose any kind of solution to your apparent "problem" here in order to discuss it. All you did was say how children should be taught.

Many children are taught those values. And many of those children will still go on to be unwed teenagers who are pregnant, and some of those will still go on to have an abortion.

I suppose that's not the parents fault though .. it's "society". *eye roll* When it really isn't. It's just.. the choice of the mother.

So what should those parents have done, when they had already said and done all that they could? Locked up their kids? Or just yelled louder, apparently? Because they taught their children "right from wrong" as they saw it anyway, so perhaps they were just not speaking loud enough? (sarcasm, of course)





Not sure who exactly is this "we" business? Because I'm ok with abortions.

So it's definitely not me.






Agree, and ditto.


But I have to duly note that no matter what the education of the steps is (as most of them DO learn the appropriate steps in school and/or from their parents), people (adults INCLUDED) still go out and make rash stupid choices anyway and end up in problematic situations, such as unwanted pregnancy.

Well educated people who were "taught right"? Still go on to have abortions.

And that's just their choice. *shrugs*


I notice a lot of the focus on abortion is all about the unwed teenager. I'm married, and an adult. I'm well educated (top grades all the way through), and I was raised well. But I do not want any children, and if we were to fall pregnant? I'd probably choose abortion. And that's my choice to make.

None of your archetypes and brainstorming "how do we fix this" even comes close to applying to me as an adult who makes up her own mind about the issues. I don't need to be "schooled" -- I've seen all the evidence. I've seen the "horror videos" trying to scare people out of abortion, I've seen facts on both sides, I've read the literature, watched the material, listened to lectures over the years.

And I'd still make that choice.

So I guess "yelling louder" really isn't gonna help the cause.. excuse me, your cause (definitely not mine), afterall.

Much as I have problems with the OP, the title question was "How do we Reduce abortions". Not "how do we stop all abortions".

Yes, there will always be some people who have taken all the appropriate precautions, who are firmly unwilling to bring up another child or bring another child into the world that someone else will bring up, who will choose abortion if the situation arises if it is available.

But there are also a good number of pregnancies that could be avoided in the first place, and a good number of people who could make a choice to go through with the pregnancy if really good quality support was provided and the reasons for their not wanting to do so mitigated.

 

[ebia]

Lengthen the school day. Lengthen the school year.

Both reduce, not improve, the quality of education and therefore would likely give entirely the opposite effect to the outcome you desire.

Not only that, our students will begin performing well on tests in comparison to Asian and Western European students.

Um, no it won't.

 

[Penumbra]

Both reduce, not improve, the quality of education and therefore would likely give entirely the opposite effect to the outcome you desire.

Um, no it won't.

How is that? I thought number of days in a country's school year was roughly correlated to their relative rank in education quality, with other variables having an effect as well.

 

[Fantine]

Strict, devout parents tend to have mixed results from what I've seen.

They either have very obedient compliant children or they have very rebellious children.

And God bless them. They've tried to do their best, but it's very difficult raising teenagers nowadays.