How do we know . . . .

[Mathetes the kerux]

Never given in scripture?



Forgive me...

Show me where the authority of the Church IN SCRIPTURE is equated to Scripture?

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Show me where the NT scripture is given any authority.

Forgive me...

 

[racer]

How can you say that IF you profess faith in the scriptures?

How can I say what?

'The gates of hell SHALL NOT prevail'

Uh huh! I’ve read Scripture. Just because the church is considered eternal existence, does not mean it will teach in perfect accordance with what Christ taught. The RCC and EO have read way too much into this verse.

And error shall never enter the Church or else, ya know, the gates prevailed.

That’s a huge leap to go from “the gates of hell shall not prevail” to “error shall never enter the Church.” You can’t find that ANYWHERE in Scripture, and I’d like to see the first time this was EVER written down. Do you have this statement in written form from any authority?

Christ didnt do this willy nilly as though His agony was meant to be displaced with relativism.

Do you honestly think that only the RC/EOs know the significance of Christ’s agony?

 

[GenemZ]

Anybody know who "Simeon the God Receiver" is and why it relates to the subject at hand.

Forgive me...

No, I do not.


Punch me...

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

I agree that they are written to believers . . . but what of the thousands of testimonies of those who were converted by just having read a portion of a Gideons in a hotel? In this case the Scripture was used to reach a believer before they believed . . .?

Converted to what? Gnostics?

Forgive me....

 

[Mathetes the kerux]

You cannot dismiss an argument saying it
"it is history.." it is not, my reply was to your post

sister the facts are the facts . . . the Scriptures were held underball and chain by the elitist upperclass of religious learned men and not allowed to be read by common folk until MARTIN LUTHER AND THE PROTESTANT REFORMATION. That IS history.

You asserted elitism toward SS's . . . but the fact is that there is NONE . . . all men can grasp the Scriptures as long as their hearts have been opened by God . . . that has always been a fundamental tenet of SS.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Western thinking only.

Forgive me...

 

[Mathetes the kerux]

Show me where the NT scripture is given any authority.

Forgive me...

Sure . . . "It is written . . ." Mat 4 Luke 4

theopnuestos 1 Tim

The Gospel is according to the Scriptures 1 Cor 15 . . .

should I really go on?

Now, can you answer my question legit this time? No smoke screen "nah nah's" from the playground.

 

[GenemZ]

Western thinking only.

Forgive me...

So?


punch me...

 

[Mathetes the kerux]

How can I say what?

Uh huh! I’ve read Scripture. Just because the church is considered eternal existence, does not mean it will teach in perfect accordance with what Christ taught. The RCC and EO have read way too much into this verse.

That’s a huge leap to go from “the gates of hell shall not prevail” to “error shall never enter the Church.” You can’t find that ANYWHERE in Scripture, and I’d like to see the first time this was EVER written down. Do you have this statement in written form from any authority?

Do you honestly think that only the RC/EOs know the significance of Christ’s agony?

That’s a huge leap to go from “the gates of hell shall not prevail” to “error shall never enter the Church.” You can’t find that ANYWHERE in Scripture, and I’d like to see the first time this was EVER written down. Do you have this statement in written form from any authority?

AMEN!

 

[Mathetes the kerux]

Converted to what? Gnostics?

Forgive me....

No . . . Christianity dude. The testimonies abound.

 

[Mathetes the kerux]

Western thinking only.

Forgive me...

Coming from a man in the west . . . on a computer . . . care to eleborate a little?

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Sure . . . "It is written . . ." Mat 4 Luke 4

theopnuestos 1 Tim

The Gospel is according to the Scriptures 1 Cor 15 . . .

should I really go on?

Now, can you answer my question legit this time? No smoke screen "nah nah's" from the playground.

Says nothing about the NT scriptures.

Forgive me...

 

[Mathetes the kerux]

Says nothing about the NT scriptures.

Forgive me...

Sure it does when Paul calls Luke's writing Scripture and Peter calls Paul's writing Scripture making it on par with the OT.

 

[Philothei]

sister the facts are the facts . . . the Scriptures were held underball and chain by the elitist upperclass of religious learned men and not allowed to be read by common folk until MARTIN LUTHER AND THE PROTESTANT REFORMATION. That IS history.

You asserted elitism toward SS's . . . but the fact is that there is NONE . . . all men can grasp the Scriptures as long as their hearts have been opened by God . . . that has always been a fundamental tenet of SS.

prove it....

 

[Thekla]

I am curious -- what is the date of the copies from which the Masoretic text was compiled ? I did find the following, which suggests that - with the addition of vowels - 'interpretation' was needed to determine meaning. Also, given passages such as the one I mentioned from "Wisdom of Solomon", do you think its possible the Masoretes perhaps had an "agenda" in their interpretation and selection of passages and books ?

The Tanakh was mainly written in Biblical Hebrew, with some portions (notably in Daniel and Ezra) in Aramaic.

Some time in the 3rd century BCE, the Torah was translated into Koine Greek, and over the next century other books were translated as well. This translation became known as the Septuagint and was widely used by Greek-speaking Jews and, later, by Christians. It differs somewhat from the Hebrew text as standardized later (Masoretic Text).

From the 800s to the 1400s, Rabbinic Jewish scholars known as the Masoretes compared the text of all known Biblical manuscripts in an effort to create a unified standardized text; a series of highly similar texts eventually emerged, and any of these texts are known as Masoretic Texts (MT). The Masoretes also added vowel points (called niqqud) to the text, since the original text only contained consonants. This sometimes required the selection of an interpretation, since words can differ only in their vowels, and thus the meaning can vary in accordance with the choice of vowels to insert. In antiquity other variant readings existed, some of which have survived in the Samaritan Pentateuch, the Dead Sea scrolls, and other ancient fragments, as well as being attested in ancient versions in other languages.

Versions of the Septuagint contain several passages and whole books additional to what was included in the Masoretic texts of the Tanakh. In some cases these additions were originally composed in Greek, while in other cases they are translations of Hebrew books or variants not present in the Masoretic texts. Recent discoveries have shown that more of the Septuagint additions have a Hebrew origin than was once thought. While there are no complete surviving manuscripts of the Hebrew texts on which the Septuagint was based, many scholars believe that they represent a different textual tradition from the one that eventually became the basis for the Masoretic texts.

from here:
http://www.prophecystudy.com/religions/christianity/holy_bible.htm

 

[Philothei]

until MARTIN LUTHER AND THE PROTESTANT REFORMATION. That IS history.

So... Luther became infallable... instead... and SS falls into its own fallacy... of gnosticism an old heresy...indeed

 

[racer]

I agree that they are written to believers . . . but what of the thousands of testimonies of those who were converted by just having read a portion of a Gideons in a hotel? In this case the Scripture was used to reach a believer before they believed . . .?

And, I've told them before, my sister alone in a dark jail cell and a bible beckoning her, inspired her to seek answers and find God--and she has never looked back . . .

 

[GenemZ]

[bible]1 timothy 3:15[/bible]

You totally ignored what you could not deal with, I see?

The "church" is the universal body of believers. This body will form into churches according to how the Holy Spirit bestows the gifts. Was God amiss for giving Luther his fantastic gift to rightly handle the Word of God?

The Church is where we find two or more gathered in his name, and one of them has the gift given to teach the Word of God.


You have taken the concept of "the church" to be locked in to your own denomination organization, because you claim to be the first. Actually? The FIRST was established in Jerusalem.

So, your's was second... to replace the first one, which had become corrupted with legalism. Just as yours was replaced when it became corrupted with practices that were borrowed from paganism.


Those who were in the first church (Jerusalem) would have never allowed for statues (forbidden in God's Word) nor the praying to the saints (to name a few).

Of course, your church has its apologists whom you might quote without question. Just the same.. As the FIRST church in Jerulsalem was replaced by a second (yours) ..

Your's had been replaced after it became seeped in corruption. That does not mean it did not do good while it still was free of corruption. Some of the things your church accomplished is still held by Protestants... except the extra books that your church still includes in addition to the Bible.






In Christ.





.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

No . . . Christianity dude. The testimonies abound.

Only from your point of view.

I'm tired of arguing with you.

Forgive me...