How do we know . . . .

[Montalban]

Then what is your evidence that there is more than is written?

Starting with the last verse of the Gospel of John we see not everything was written down.
John 21:25 Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.

Secondly Paul writes of times he previously spoke to people - giving them lessons orally.

“Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or by our epistle” (II Thessalonians 2:15)

Paul even refers to things that he must have learnt himself from oral teachings.

Paul gives a quotation from Jesus that was handed down orally to him: "It is more blessed to give than to receive" (Acts 20:35). This saying is not recorded in the Gospels and must have been passed on to Paul. And therefore Paul himself uses tradition as a guide for teaching.

Now, what's your evidence that we must only rely on the Bible?

 

[Montalban]

Then what is your evidence that there is more than is written?

Starting with the last verse of the Gospel of John we see not everything was written down.
John 21:25 Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.

Secondly Paul writes of times he previously spoke to people - giving them lessons orally.

“Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or by our epistle” (II Thessalonians 2:15)

Paul even refers to things that he must have learnt himself from oral teachings.

Paul gives a quotation from Jesus that was handed down orally to him: "It is more blessed to give than to receive" (Acts 20:35). This saying is not recorded in the Gospels and must have been passed on to Paul. And therefore Paul himself uses tradition as a guide for teaching.

Now, what's your evidence that we must only rely on the Bible?

 

[Montalban]

funny someone who goes to your church, calling others legalistic.

Indeed. Protestants are demanding for evidence, but accepting only what's written down.

in answer to the OP

when they are selling it to you as "you gotta be one of us, we are the only ones who have it all right, we guarantee it. Everyone else can't be right. "

Well it's better than arguing everyone is right, even when they all oppose each other.

 

[Jet_A_Jockey]

Answer, it doesn't. IN fact Paul is quite explicit about listening to the teachings of the Apostles whether it be by letter or spoke word.

Hi Scott,

Did the Apostles speak/write of indulgences? Or perhaps reverence of statues and likenesses by sacrific..errr..gifting and or kissing? God bless!

 

[Uphill Battle]

Indeed. Protestants are demanding for evidence, but accepting only what's written down.

that is not legalism.

Well it's better than arguing everyone is right, even when they all oppose each other.

if you say so. Or rather, if your priest says so.

 

[Philothei]

Why UB do you listen to your minister ? Do not tell me you never listen to him?

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

.

Forgive me...

 

[Uphill Battle]

Why UB do you listen to your minister ? Do not tell me you never listen to him?

sure I listen to him. I'm not forced to believe every word that comes out of his mouth though. If he says something that doesn't jive, I'm free to say so.

nor will I get drummed out of the church if I disagree on something.

 

[ScottBot]

I remember reading in my bible this group of people who wanted to stone Paul because the felt his message of the risen Christ did not square verbatim with the written word....Thessalonians if I remember. Then Paul went and spoke to the Bereans and they accepted both Paul's oral account AND the written word. The Bereans, a classic example of the Apostolic Tradition, relying on both the written and spoken Word.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

sure I listen to him. I'm not forced to believe every word that comes out of his mouth though. If he says something that doesn't jive, I'm free to say so.

nor will I get drummed out of the church if I disagree on something.

Same here... believe it or not.

Forgive me...

 

[Uphill Battle]

Same here... believe it or not.

Forgive me...

really.

interesting. Didn't think you were allowed such latitude.

 

[PujolsNonRoidHomerHitter]

I remember reading in my bible this group of people who wanted to stone Paul because the felt his message of the risen Christ did not square verbatim with the written word....Thessalonians if I remember. Then Paul went and spoke to the Bereans and they accepted both Paul's oral account AND the written word. The Bereans, a classic example of the Apostolic Tradition, relying on both the written and spoken Word.

What you seem to have overlooked is the fact that Scripture was still being written when the Bereans heard. Naturally, there were a lot of oral sermons and teachings that were brand new. Whatever Paul told them wouldn't be inconsistent with what he said elsewhere that we have written down and recorded.

Go Cards!

 

[PujolsNonRoidHomerHitter]

The Traditions (capital T) are the proper understanding of the Scriptures. They merely clarify what most protestants leave up to interpretation.

Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me the sinner.

So basically, traditions (t) are nothing more than commentaries?

Go Cards!

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

really.

interesting. Didn't think you were allowed such latitude.

In The Orthodox Church it is ultimatly the layity that is in charge.

Forgive me...

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Uh oh... It's happening again

Post 57 is in response to post #72

Forgive me...

 

[PujolsNonRoidHomerHitter]

Read the Scriptures within the living Tradition of the whole Church. Proper exegesis cannot be separated from the living Tradition of the Church. This is meant to emphasize that modernistic approaches to biblical study, as valuable as they may be, cannot adequately elucidate the full meaning of the Scriptures. Context is as important as content.

To study the traditions -- YES. To place them on par with Scripture -- NO. If modern Bible study methods cannot 'adequately elucidate the full meaning of the Scriptures' then how do you explain the tremendous minds of those outside of the Catholic Church who have an incredible depth to their understanding of the Scriptures?

Go Cards!

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Holy Scriptures are the highest (by far) of Holy Traditions.

Forgive me...

 

[PujolsNonRoidHomerHitter]

The tendency of traditions is that they eventually make men legalistic --

"Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition?"

"You have made the commandment of God of no effect by your tradition."

"These people draw near to Me with their mouth, And honor Me with their lips, But their heart is far from Me. And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men."

Go Cards!

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

2Th 2:15

Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

2Th 3:6

Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.



Obviously, the Apostles recieved traditions from Christ and set out that we should observe and maintain them as well no matter how we recieved them.

Forgive me...

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

The tendency of traditions is that they eventually make men legalistic --

"Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition?"

"You have made the commandment of God of no effect by your tradition."

"These people draw near to Me with their mouth, And honor Me with their lips, But their heart is far from Me. And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men."

Go Cards!

2Th 2:15

Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

2Th 3:6

Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.



Obviously, the Apostles recieved traditions from Christ and set out that we should observe and maintain them as well no matter how we recieved them.

Forgive me...