How do we get casinos shut down?

[HeartFullaLove]

While I don't think gambling is inherently siful, I find it hypocritical that the lottery ads in my state always end with "not for invewstment purposes" yet the State itself is using it "for investment purposes."

 

[Maynard Keenan]

Why do we want them removed. I will, on occasion, gamble. I can't at casinos yet (not 21) but once or twice a year I'll go to the horse track (Churchill Downs, greatest in the world) and spend a little money and have a little fun. No harm done to anyone. No harm to my relationship with Christ. I play poker with friends, low stakes. No harm done to anyone, just a chance to sit around with friends with a little extra competitive incentive. In moderation things like this are NOT bad. and also, I oppose the notion that we as Christians need to remove these things in order to protect people from themselves. If people CHOOSE to sin (if what they're doing is, in fact, sin) we can offer them guidance but it is not our duty to forcefully stop their sin nor to forcefully remove the opportunity to sin (unless their sin is something harmful to us or others, like murder or something.)

 

[Stinker]

Why do we want them removed. I will, on occasion, gamble. I can't at casinos yet (not 21) but once or twice a year I'll go to the horse track (Churchill Downs, greatest in the world) and spend a little money and have a little fun. No harm done to anyone. No harm to my relationship with Christ. I play poker with friends, low stakes. No harm done to anyone, just a chance to sit around with friends with a little extra competitive incentive. In moderation things like this are NOT bad. and also, I oppose the notion that we as Christians need to remove these things in order to protect people from themselves. If people CHOOSE to sin (if what they're doing is, in fact, sin) we can offer them guidance but it is not our duty to forcefully stop their sin nor to forcefully remove the opportunity to sin (unless their sin is something harmful to us or others, like murder or something.)

The casino owners (and those connected to them) should be stopped before they gain a foot hold in a community or State because they are so corrupt and so rich that they will not influence those governments....they will own them.

 

[Pointman7]

There is nothing wrong with casinos. There is something wrong with people who cannot control themselves.

Don't ruin the fun of everyone else because a few don't have any discipline.

I lived in Reno, Nevada many years ago. I worked in a warehouse in my twenties. On payday, I would see many family men go and gamble away all their rent money. Later, I worked at the airport. I would see countless people arrived happy, bright eyed and confident they would win lots of money. They left broke, hungover and not very happy. Gambling in itself my not be a sin but the love of money can cause many problems. It may be "fun money" at first but alot of people are not as strong as you and fall to its lure and pay dearly. By the way, The casino pays its complete overhead with just its slot machines. The rest is all profit. The lottery works on enticing the poor with riches they will never have. Its like some kind of "greed tax."

keep your back room card games, side bets on sports but NO Casinos and No Lottery.

 

[HeartFullaLove]

The casino owners (and those connected to them) should be stopped before they gain a foot hold in a community or State because they are so corrupt and so rich that they will not influence those governments....they will own them.

Wanna bet?

 

[PaladinValer]

I lived in Reno, Nevada many years ago. I worked in a warehouse in my twenties. On payday, I would see many family men go and gamble away all their rent money.

This Begs the question of why they did. Is it due to gambling or is it due to their lack of discipline?

No one is forcing you to enter a casino. No one is forcing you to bet your money in a casino. No one is forcing you to stop betting. That's a personal responsibility.

Later, I worked at the airport. I would see countless people arrived happy, bright eyed and confident they would win lots of money. They left broke, hungover and not very happy.

That's their own fault that they cannot control themselves. Many people gamble and know when to quit.

In addition, so far this is all a Fallacy of Slippery Slope.

In addition again, Fallacy of Appealing to Authority. Unless you are an authority on gambling itself, especially the psychological impact of it on people, you cannot argue these things as if you were an expert.

Gambling in itself my not be a sin but the love of money can cause many problems.

Fallacy of Equivocation. Gambling doesn't necessarily equate to greed. Many play for a challenge. Others are professionals. Many more are just in it for some fun.

It may be "fun money" at first but alot of people are not as strong as you and fall to its lure and pay dearly.

Exactly. Some have a problem while others do not.

By the way, The casino pays its complete overhead with just its slot machines. The rest is all profit.

The lottery works on enticing the poor with riches they will never have.

Fallacy of Non-Support. There is no evidence given to back up this statement.

Its like some kind of "greed tax."

Again, this Begs the Question that all people who play the lottery or gamble are greedy. You need to prove that they are before coming to this conclusion.

keep your back room card games, side bets on sports but NO Casinos and No Lottery.

I will keep playing the lottery on occasion and I may venture into a casino eventually in my life. These things have no hold over me, and they don't have a hold over many people. To say that, because some cannot control themselves that the action is sinful is illogical. It may be a weakness to some and not to others. The Bible is quite clear that many things are problematic to some but not to others. Some things are sinful to only a portion while it isn't sinful to others.

 

[Cajun Huguenot]

Does anyone know what U.S. citizens can do to get these cancers removed from our communities? I have tried searching the Internet but almost all I found was pro-gaming sites.

I live in South Louisiana. Hurricanes do a pretty good job at shutting them down far a while , but I don't recommend that route . There is a lot of collateral damage. I (along with many others) will be working to repair my house for several more months.

Coram Deo,
Kenith

 

[Pointman7]

This Begs the question of why they did. Is it due to gambling or is it due to their lack of discipline?

No one is forcing you to enter a casino. No one is forcing you to bet your money in a casino. No one is forcing you to stop betting. That's a personal responsibility.

Having it down the street makes very alluring and the next thing these undiscipline souls find is an empty wallet. Whats next after the Casino a house of prostitution with girls walking your neighborhood.

That's their own fault that they cannot control themselves. Many people gamble and know when to quit.

In addition, so far this is all a Fallacy of Slippery Slope.

Maybe so, but lets not find out who is the stronger. if it is my power to protect the weaker brother , I will.


In addition again, Fallacy of Appealing to Authority. Unless you are an authority on gambling itself, especially the psychological impact of it on people, you cannot argue these things as if you were an expert.

I don't have to be an expert, I see it with my own eyes. Talk to the families of an gambling addict. Also, the non-experts do the voting.

Fallacy of Equivocation. Gambling doesn't necessarily equate to greed. Many play for a challenge. Others are professionals. Many more are just in it for some fun.

Take out the possibility of winning a high pot and not many would play it. The whole appeal is the money. I agree, when the senior citizens board the bus in their home town and drive over the summit into Reno or Vegas its a time of fun. They enjoy the company and do other things than just gambling. But, the all they talk about is how they are going to win big.

Fallacy of Non-Support. There is no evidence given to back up this statement.

Ask any gambler and he/she will tell you the odds are always with the house. All gamblers lose more than they win most of the time.

Again, this Begs the Question that all people who play the lottery or gamble are greedy. You need to prove that they are before coming to this conclusion.

Greed may be a harsh word, rather "desire to make oneself rich quickly and with little effort." How many people pray to God, "Please, Lord let me win all this money and will give half to the church?" I believe those people are not greedy and truly need the money but the Lottery/prayer will most likely never work.

To say that, because some cannot control themselves that the action is sinful is illogical. It may be a weakness to some and not to others. The Bible is quite clear that many things are problematic to some but not to others. Some things are sinful to only a portion while it isn't sinful to others.

The actual act may not be sin according to scripture. I feel very strongly that strict laws need to be in place in dealing with certain types of activities(alcohol, drugs, gambling, prostitution) without stepping on constitutional rights. I don't expect the government to pass laws enforcing christian purity but at least hold back hedonism.

I really enjoy debating with you, God bless you.

 

[Rimler]

Why worry about shutting down the casinos? Gambling itself is not a sin, excessiveness and the love of money is though. If gambling is a sin, then there are many churches around the world that promote gambling. IE: Bingo night.

As stated many time in this thread. We all have choices. We all must have discipline. We all must not give into the excessiveness and love of money that others have. We should advise and support those who have.

God has given we humans the ability to rationalize. Every choice we make does not have to be all or nothing. If I should decide to gamble, I would not gamble all of my money away, I would gamble a reasonable amount. Hence rationalizing. Rationalizing is what seperates humans from animals and why we God gave us dominion of the Earth and not a bear.

God Bless

 

[Pointman7]

Why worry about shutting down the casinos? Gambling itself is not a sin, excessiveness and the love of money is though. If gambling is a sin, then there are many churches around the world that promote gambling. IE: Bingo night.

Bingo should be banned from all churches. No exceptions. Now, that I think of it, not many churches allow anyway. And if they do, its just for fun, no money or the most you win is an apple pie.
I could be wrong, though. High stake church gambling may go on somewhere.

As stated many time in this thread. We all have choices. We all must have discipline. We all must not give into the excessiveness and love of money that others have. We should advise and support those who have.

Many in society are immature, like children, who need have parimeters or limits. Take away the highway speed limit signs and see what happens to this kind discipline.

I would not gamble all of my money away, I would gamble a reasonable amount.

You say that now.

God bless you too.

 

[PaladinValer]

[/color]

Having it down the street makes very alluring and the next thing these undiscipline souls find is an empty wallet.

You are assuming it is alluring. You give no evidence, so this is a Non-support statement.

Whats next after the Casino a house of prostitution with girls walking your neighborhood.

Irrelevent and also a Fallacy of Consequences. You've yet to prove gambling is sinful.

Maybe so, but lets not find out who is the stronger. if it is my power to protect the weaker brother , I will.

And who is "weaker?" Please define.

I don't have to be an expert, I see it with my own eyes. Talk to the families of an gambling addict. Also, the non-experts do the voting.

I'm sorry, but in debate, you cannot claim authority you do not have. I therefore must reject your statement.

Take out the possibility of winning a high pot and not many would play it. The whole appeal is the money.

This is another Fallacy of Hasty Generalization. You have given no proof and now you've made an extremely sweeping argument.

I agree, when the senior citizens board the bus in their home town and drive over the summit into Reno or Vegas its a time of fun. They enjoy the company and do other things than just gambling. But, the all they talk about is how they are going to win big.

That's an afterthought, not the goal.

Ask any gambler and he/she will tell you the odds are always with the house. All gamblers lose more than they win most of the time.

This is not a valid reply. You need to give expert evidence to support your position.

Greed may be a harsh word, rather "desire to make oneself rich quickly and with little effort." How many people pray to God, "Please, Lord let me win all this money and will give half to the church?" I believe those people are not greedy and truly need the money but the Lottery/prayer will most likely never work.

Key words being "most likely." That doesn't mean "never." And so long as they aren't playing excessively, they are not doing anything morally wrong.

The actual act may not be sin according to scripture. I feel very strongly that strict laws need to be in place in dealing with certain types of activities(alcohol, drugs, gambling, prostitution) without stepping on constitutional rights. I don't expect the government to pass laws enforcing christian purity but at least hold back hedonism.

Currently, in many states, you cannot play the lottery until you are 18. Most casinos disallow anyone under the age of 21 to even walk in the door. If you apply, then it is up to you to moderate your gaming. It is a person's own fault, not the casino's, if they indulge too much. No one keeps them there; its their own choice.

You are suggesting that casinos tell their customers to leave if they are overspending. That's the same as asking high-end restaurants to kick people out who order too much food! Is such a restaurant forcing a person to buy all the food they need? Are they forcing the person to pick the highest priced food and drink? Should the restaurant be reported to the police because of a person's personal gluttony?

Or how about computers? We all should know by now the dangers of overusing computers. Should we make laws that say you can only spend "X" amount of time on a computer? Or arrest people who become ill because they spent 48 straight hours sitting in front of a computer? There are people like that, and this situation is exactly the same. No one is forcing them to stay on the computer.

You arguments are infringements on Constitutionally-protected rights of freedom. I cannot therefore agree with any of them.

 

[Rimler]

Bingo should be banned from all churches. No exceptions. Now, that I think of it, not many churches allow anyway. And if they do, its just for fun, no money or the most you win is an apple pie.
I could be wrong, though. High stake church gambling may go on somewhere.

Gambling is gambling whether it be a money, pie, or a coo coo clock for a prize. One is looking to risk personal possesions for gain. I do not condone any gambling in churches. We are now putting human subjectiveness to what is good gambling to bad gambling.



Many in society are immature, like children, who need have parimeters or limits. Take away the highway speed limit signs and see what happens to this kind discipline.

Parameters should be place in society, if not, society would not exist that is what is referred to as chaos or

But, when does free choice come into place. If we as a christian society eliminate choices people have then we would have a very narrow minded and bland society. People must have choices to make. I don't want people becoming Christians because that is the only choice they have left. That is another form of coersiveness. I would rather have people make choices because it is the right thing to do. If people want to gamble then they should be aloud to gamble. He or she will be judged by the Lord not you or I. Would I support gambling in my area, no. Because I have the choice not to support it. It is very dangerous thinking to take away peoples choices. It starts with gambling then it moves on to other items. When does it stop, and who stops it.



You say that now.

God bless you too.

And yes I do say that now, because I believe it


Rimler

 

[Pointman7]

Sorry Rimler, I didn't mean to imply you would be susceptible to this addiction in the future. I was speaking generally of those who are weaker-willed.

 

[Stinker]

Is anyone even aware that the backers of these casinos are so powerful that they have written into law that the casino property is a 'law unto itself' in layman's terms. In the area where I live these casinos claim to be under the authority of the 'Gaming Commision' (it can be shown that they own the Gaming Commision) and that the State Patrol monitors the casino property (must be why the casinos do not have to provide any crime data to the public) State Patrol must be phenomenal! No crimes occur on casino property!

 

[revrobor]

As long as they are legal under state and federal laws you are not going to get them shut down. We really have more important things to concern ourselves about like carrying out the Great Commission.

 

[DanielRB]

Hi Folks,

There have been a lot of good replies concerning the need for personal responsibility vs. protecting people from their own bad choices.

This really is a difficult philosophical position, and I don't have any easy answer. A consistant libertarian would be against any laws that "protect people from themselves" as being a limit to their own free choices. Not many people actually believe that.

Gambling is but one example. Another example might be saving for retirement. Everyone who survives into old age will need some kind of support--whether they pay for it themselves, or society pays for it collectively. Some might argue "look, people need to have self-discipline to save enough for retirement. We shouldn't take away people's freedom to save their money or spend it as they see fit. Laws to mandate saving for retirement are treating people like children, not adults."

The simple fact is, when it is voluntary, very few people have the foresight to save for retirement. In essence, they are gambling with their future (nodding to the OP)...what should we do about this? If people do not save individually for retirement, either we let them live (or perhaps die, if it is bad enough) in poverty when they retire, or we subsidize their bad choices by providing social security for them.

Most western nations have some form of social security/old age pensions, some more generous than others. Essentially, societies have decided that it is better to take away a bit of freedom in order to protect people from the bad choices that they may make regarding their retirement.

In this light, I would suggest that the gambling question is not so much a debate between those who believe in giving people freedom and those who don't, but a debate about what kinds of freedoms we as a society wish to recognize for individuals. I think it's disingenous to suggest otherwise.

So much for the political argument. Whether gambling is permitted by law or not, is it ethically a good choice for Christians?

Before people start saying "if it isn't condemned in the Bible, it's ok", then consider many things that the majority of Christians find sinful, yet there is no particular "thus saith the Lord" about it. For example: marrying one's sister--Abraham did it, and he was never condemned for doing so. Yes, Torah did say it was sinful, but in the pages of the New Testament, it is never condemned. (And a lot of Torah is considered irrelevant by Christians today--like who really cares if one wears cloth made of two kinds of fibers or not? And who excludes Moabites from their Church to the tenth generation?)

Any way, I'm rambling...

In Christ,

Daniel

 

[Pointman7]

First of all Daniel, you have a nice family. I peek at your picture.

[QUOTE=DanielRB]
we subsidize their bad choices by providing social security for them./QUOTE]
Isn't this our money? If the government didn't take I would spend and not save like many others.

In this light, I would suggest that the gambling question is not so much a debate between those who believe in giving people freedom and those who don't, but a debate about what kinds of freedoms we as a society wish to recognize for individuals. I think it's disingenous to suggest otherwise.

Yeah, Gambling today is very popular and very much recognized by many individuals.

So much for the political argument. Whether gambling is permitted by law or not, is it ethically a good choice for Christians?

An unwise choice.

Before people start saying "if it isn't condemned in the Bible, it's ok", then consider many things that the majority of Christians find sinful, yet there is no particular "thus saith the Lord" about it. For example: marrying one's sister--Abraham did it, and he was never condemned for doing so. Yes, Torah did say it was sinful, but in the pages of the New Testament, it is never condemned. (And a lot of Torah is considered irrelevant by Christians today--like who really cares if one wears cloth made of two kinds of fibers or not? And who excludes Moabites from their Church to the tenth generation?)

Good Point!

 

[streetevangelist]

Does anyone know what U.S. citizens can do to get these cancers removed from our communities? I have tried searching the Internet but almost all I found was pro-gaming sites.

There is a group name Repent America , they are at repentamerica.com. The best thing that you could do in this stand near the casino's with you bible, large banner with scripture and powerhorn and tell the people about the Word of God.
That will work because these people are not informed about the bible.
Inform them.
Glad to help
Helena

 

[DanielRB]

Thanks for all your kind words, Pointman!

First of all Daniel, you have a nice family. I peek at your picture.

[QUOTE=DanielRB]
we subsidize their bad choices by providing social security for them./QUOTE]
Isn't this our money? If the government didn't take I would spend and not save like many others.


Yeah, Gambling today is very popular and very much recognized by many individuals.



An unwise choice.


Good Point!

 

[Stinker]

Casinos are like a cancer in that they do not just try to dominate it's patrons, but also try to dominate local and State governments in effort to increase profits every year. The more restrictions they can get free of, and the more local government support they can get in their promotion (more money for schools, jobs, etc.) is their goal.