How do we create a willing ear?

[Frank Robert]

That dismal failure is on the heads of the self serving people, not any government.

Who do you think allows and in many cases promotes the self-serving?

 

[tas8831]

Simple. People can become experts at anything they wish.

If that were so... you've been on this forum for 11 years, and you still write things like

"Darwin wanted to make an impact on the world without mentioning God, even though I think he did see that evolution was an engineered process and not random at all."
​

and

"Evolution based on the religion of "randomness", a force that does not exist.
This was explained to me by a forensics examiner who demonstrated to me that randomness does not exist."​

So no worries about you becoming an expert any time soon. But at least you don't plagiarize any more...?

 

[timothyu]

Who do you think allows and in many cases promotes the self-serving?

Self serving is the default setting of mankind. A system that caters to that setting finds allegiance easily, an allegiance that runs counter to the will of God, making His will a counter-culture to the American way.

 

[timothyu]

In the EU/UK/US the government policy is neoliberism where the corporations and the billionaires come first. In China the government allows billionaires to a point but government comes first.

Then why do they work together towards a common agenda in the WEF?

 

[Frank Robert]

Self serving is the default setting of mankind.

When the right's self-serving interferes with the left self-serving is when the problems liftoff with the cheer leaders the fuel.

A system that caters to that setting finds allegiance easily, an allegiance that runs counter to the will of God, making His will a counter-culture to the American way.

Some people believe that God makes his will known through revelation. The problem is the conflicting revelations not only from different gods and religious beliefs but also from the numerous different denominations within religions. The present generations did not heed the warnings of our founding fathers for which we are now paying the price.

 

[Frank Robert]

deleted

 

[timothyu]

When the right's self-serving interferes with the left self-serving is when the problems liftoff with the cheer leaders the fuel.

True, but eliminate the right and left (not all the world are US'ers) and man still self destructs due to our self serving nature first exposed in the Garden.

 

[SkyWriting]

If that were so... you've been on this forum for 11 years, and you still write things like

"Darwin wanted to make an impact on the world without mentioning God, even though I think he did see that evolution was an engineered process and not random at all."
​

and

"Evolution based on the religion of "randomness", a force that does not exist.
This was explained to me by a forensics examiner who demonstrated to me that randomness does not exist."​

So no worries about you becoming an expert any time soon. But at least you don't plagiarize any more...?

I have college training in research. This forum is not on my list of resources.
Or anyone's. I never take credit for the work of others.

 

[public hermit]

This thread is slightly inspired –or is at least becoming more urgent due to Pitabread’s thread about the dangers of creationism.

Creationism is but the tip of the iceberg in terms of science denial. You have climate change denial, antivaxxers, body positivity movement that slides into denial of any health consequence of obesity. In the nineties of the previous century I remember people denying or mocking the existence of the ozone depletion above the Antarctic.

When the Obamas (especially Michelle Obama) launched a campaign for healthy nutrition for children there was a huge backlash. Somehow it is bad to care for healthy food for children. The argument? “Unelected experts don’t know what my kid needs”. Well, no. That’s exactly the very definition of being an expert. Someone who knows better.


And here we are at the core of the issue. Too many people seem to think that reading one or two Facebook posts equals years and years of study and practical experience and make someone an expert on whatever subject. Any idiot with a keyboard and an internet connection can produce whatever text he wants and is put on a par, if not higher, than leading experts and Nobel prize winners.


How do we restore the notion that no one knows everything? That experts are – yes people who know a lot more and better – about a subject that the layman?

How do we restore a willing ear again for knowledge science and expertise again? It’s not a fanciful question. It is a matter of life and death. Whether it is about obesity, climate change or vaccinations, taking the wrong decision implies taking huge risks.

Any thoughts?

I used to think that reason and the acceptance of reasonable reasons were simply a matter of clear communication. If you present a reasonable argument, especially one that deals with possible defeaters, the best ideas will prevail. Or, at least reasonable people will acknowledge that such an argument has merit and shouldn't be cast aside as of it hadn't been made.

But the internet, and especially social media, has disabused me of that naive assumption. More than that, the way Americans have completely exacerbated this pandemic tells me the only thing that will reach these people is pain and suffering. That's the only thing the fool responds to, and that's not a guarantee.

Let's face the reality: social media, including CF, is where truth goes to die.

 

[SkyWriting]

If that were so..?

It is so and a fact.

People can become experts in any issue they choose to.

 

[driewerf]

I used to think that reason and the acceptance of reasonable reasons were simply a matter of clear communication. If you present a reasonable argument, especially one that deals with possible defeaters, the best ideas will prevail. Or, at least reasonable people will acknowledge that such an argument has merit and shouldn't be cast aside as of it hadn't been made.

But the internet, and especially social media, has disabused me of that naive assumption. More than that, the way Americans have completely exacerbated this pandemic tells me the only thing that will reach these people is pain and suffering. That's the only thing the fool responds to, and that's not a guarantee.

The basic premises of the OP is that before achieving results, we need to create a willingness to listen. Now, I can give many examples about how not to do it. For example -- and despite all the cheers in the comment section, I think that Aron Ra did an incredible poor job against Kent Hovind in the debate below:

Aron Ra was way too condescending and was talking way over the heads of the average Hovind fan. I am convinced that after watching this debate the average Hovind fan has even more digged his heels in the ground and entrenched in his positions.

Let's face the reality: social media, including CF, is where truth goes to die.

It ought not to be that way. But we need to ask ourselves how to turn this.

 

[Estrid]

Self serving is the default setting of mankind. A system that caters to that setting finds allegiance easily, an allegiance that runs counter to the will of God, making His will a counter-culture to the American way.

"The default setting".

That is generally true of little children, or puppies ftm, but
with maturity comes a change.

 

[Estrid]

It is so and a fact.

People can become experts in any issue they choose to.

.....with notable exceptions....

 

[Nithavela]

This thread is slightly inspired –or is at least becoming more urgent due to Pitabread’s thread about the dangers of creationism.

Creationism is but the tip of the iceberg in terms of science denial. You have climate change denial, antivaxxers, body positivity movement that slides into denial of any health consequence of obesity. In the nineties of the previous century I remember people denying or mocking the existence of the ozone depletion above the Antarctic.

When the Obamas (especially Michelle Obama) launched a campaign for healthy nutrition for children there was a huge backlash. Somehow it is bad to care for healthy food for children. The argument? “Unelected experts don’t know what my kid needs”. Well, no. That’s exactly the very definition of being an expert. Someone who knows better.


And here we are at the core of the issue. Too many people seem to think that reading one or two Facebook posts equals years and years of study and practical experience and make someone an expert on whatever subject. Any idiot with a keyboard and an internet connection can produce whatever text he wants and is put on a par, if not higher, than leading experts and Nobel prize winners.


How do we restore the notion that no one knows everything? That experts are – yes people who know a lot more and better – about a subject that the layman?

How do we restore a willing ear again for knowledge science and expertise again? It’s not a fanciful question. It is a matter of life and death. Whether it is about obesity, climate change or vaccinations, taking the wrong decision implies taking huge risks.

Any thoughts?

I think they grew ears on rats, once.

 

[Frank Robert]

True, but eliminate the right and left (not all the world are US'ers) and man still self destructs due to our self serving nature first exposed in the Garden.

You are missing the forest for the trees.

 

[timothyu]

That is generally true of little children, or puppies ftm, but
with maturity comes a change.

For the worse. Self interest is the cause of all evils, the original sin. It leads to self determination of what is good and evil, changing the definitions to suit the deed which is self justification. It leads to self centeredness, self fulfilment and gratification or indulgence, self absorption, etc. most often leading to gain at the expense of another, all of which run contrary to the will of God. All are guilty.

 

[Estrid]

For the worse. Self interest is the cause of all evils, the original sin. It leads to self determination of what is good and evil, changing the definitions to suit the deed which is self justification. It leads to self centeredness, self fulfilment and gratification or indulgence, self absorption, etc. most often leading to gain at the expense of another, all of which run contrary to the will of God. All are guilty.

Sorry to heat that you see things that way.

 

[timothyu]

Sorry to heat that you see things that way.

All of mankind should be sorry. It is the reason we got kicked out of the Garden and it is the very thing we are to repent of. Man is all about self while God is about others.

 

[Estrid]

All of mankind should be sorry. It is the reason we got kicked out of the Garden and it is the very thing we are to repent of. Man is all about self while God is about others.

I know the Christian story.

 

[timothyu]

I know the Christian story.

We don't need the Christian story to see the selfishness of man and those who continually seek gain at the expense of others, be it theft or adultery up to the systems of nations and financial institutions.