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Many (most?) predators are primarily interested in live prey, and will avoid scavenging. For their prey, pretending to be dead may provide a selective advantage. That's the hypothesis, anyway -- it's a question that has to be answered empirically. As far as I can tell, only one study has been done on the subject. It looked at red flour beetles and determined that strains that feign death longer are indeed at a reproductive advantage.The ever loveable, ever cute opossums would seem to present a mystery to evolution. Why and how would such a creature ever evolve the characteristic "playing opossum"? To stop mid chase and fall into a catatonic state seems to be a pretty lousy "defense mechanism". To a hungry predatory animal this would be fast food turned into sit down dining.
SFS, As always, thank you for your honesty in your responses. That is a trait that is always admired, but seldom demonstrated for many people.Many (most?) predators are primarily interested in live prey, and will avoid scavenging. For their prey, pretending to be dead may provide a selective advantage. That's the hypothesis, anyway -- it's a question that has to be answered empirically. As far as I can tell, only one study has been done on the subject. It looked at red flour beetles and determined that strains that feign death longer are indeed at a reproductive advantage.
The ever loveable, ever cute opossums would seem to present a mystery to evolution. Why and how would such a creature ever evolve the characteristic "playing opossum"? To stop mid chase and fall into a catatonic state seems to be a pretty lousy "defense mechanism". To a hungry predatory animal this would be fast food turned into sit down dining.
In Christ, GB
This is your best response to an honest question? Is there no answer for you other than to immediately start in on my beliefs instead of actually answering the question that was directed towards ToE? C'mon SplitRock, I know you have well thought out answers (even though I may disagree with them), we don't have to resort to "Nah nah nah boo boo, your theory's doo doo". If you're not going to have any mature input in the conversation, I'm going to ask you to bow out gracefully. Thank you sir.I guess that means that your god created the ever cute opossum to serve as "fast food" for the non-meat-eating non-predators he created. Or was it somehow the result of "The Curse?"
I grew up on a farm and on at least two occasions I found "dead" possums that turned out later to be very much alive. This can be an unpleasant surprise. Our dogs, which would have chased any living animal ignored them. This strategy works very well with many predators but is spectacularly unsuccessful with automobiles.
I know what you mean! Except for one thing. My dog is totally opportunistic. He used to drag over the "leftovers" of my neighbor's deer kills. It wasn't uncommon to have guts and bones strewn all over my yard. I'm sure that my other neighbors had suspicions!I grew up on a farm and on at least two occasions I found "dead" possums that turned out later to be very much alive. This can be an unpleasant surprise. Our dogs, which would have chased any living animal ignored them. This strategy works very well with many predators but is spectacularly unsuccessful with automobiles.
Nevertheless, SplitRock has a valid point. If playing dead really were a maladaptive behavior (which it looks like it isn't), then creationism would also have to provide an explanation for it.This is your best response to an honest question? Is there no answer for you other than to immediately start in on my beliefs instead of actually answering the question that was directed towards ToE? C'mon SplitRock, I know you have well thought out answers (even though I may disagree with them), we don't have to resort to "Nah nah nah boo boo, your theory's doo doo". If you're not going to have any mature input in the conversation, I'm going to ask you to bow out gracefully. Thank you sir.
I think automobiles are now the number 1 "predators" of possums and probably deer and racoons in our area at least.I know -- on the occasions that my automobiles have tried to play dead, things have not worked out well for anyone involved.
Split's response was in no way "a valid point". It was a dismissive statement.Nevertheless, SplitRock has a valid point. If playing dead really were a maladaptive behavior (which it looks like it isn't), then creationism would also have to provide an explanation for it.
The ever loveable, ever cute opossums would seem to present a mystery to evolution. Why and how would such a creature ever evolve the characteristic "playing opossum"? To stop mid chase and fall into a catatonic state seems to be a pretty lousy "defense mechanism". To a hungry predatory animal this would be fast food turned into sit down dining.
In Christ, GB
So then you are saying God created possums to be quick meals for predators? Actually running triggers the predation instict in many predators. This is why it is usually so counter productive to run from a dog. Even one that wasn't "planning" to attack may do so if you run away. As I said I have seen our dogs ignore possums that were playing dead. Rabbits will also try freezing and then if that doesn't work they take off. Dogs will not ignore a running rabbit the way they will a "dead" possum.Split's response was in no way "a valid point". It was a dismissive statement.
As far as to how the reaction of the opossum could have been an evolved trait, it would seem (at least to me) that it would be totally counterproductive to evolution. I know one person responded that many predators are more interested in a live meal versus a dead meal, but any predatory animal that could observe the "nature" of the opossum's behavior could quickly learn how to get a "fast" meal. Simply scare the opossum into that catatonic state and then close in for the kill. Why chase a meal when you can get your meal to lay perfectly still?
In Christ, GB
It was a little snarkily worded (as was your original post), but it a valid point, one that you have not addressed. You are arguing that playing dead makes no sense from an evolutionary perspective, but if your premises are correct, it also makes no sense from a creationist perspective.Split's response was in no way "a valid point". It was a dismissive statement.
But how is the predator to distinguish between prey that is lying perfectly still and a dead animal? The latter carries a substantial risk of either food poisoning from rotting flesh or disease. Do you eat carcasses you find lying around? This is not the kind of issue you can resolve just by applying common sense -- you have to know too much. What fraction of the time does a prey animal freeze? How often is it successful? What fraction of the predator's diet does that animal represent? How dangerous is eating carrion?As far as to how the reaction of the opossum could have been an evolved trait, it would seem (at least to me) that it would be totally counterproductive to evolution. I know one person responded that many predators are more interested in a live meal versus a dead meal, but any predatory animal that could observe the "nature" of the opossum's behavior could quickly learn how to get a "fast" meal. Simply scare the opossum into that catatonic state and then close in for the kill. Why chase a meal when you can get your meal to lay perfectly still?
If you study bear attacks there are two things you do not want to do. Act aggressive or run. Either way they will attack if your aggressive and chase you if you run. If you hold your ground and just stand there, then there is a better chance they will leave you alone.Why and how would such a creature ever evolve the characteristic "playing opossum"? To stop mid chase and fall into a catatonic state seems to be a pretty lousy "defense mechanism". To a hungry predatory animal this would be fast food turned into sit down dining.
This is your best response to an honest question? Is there no answer for you other than to immediately start in on my beliefs instead of actually answering the question that was directed towards ToE? C'mon SplitRock, I know you have well thought out answers (even though I may disagree with them), we don't have to resort to "Nah nah nah boo boo, your theory's doo doo". If you're not going to have any mature input in the conversation, I'm going to ask you to bow out gracefully. Thank you sir.
In Christ, GB
Why I don't take any exchange with you too seriously. Carry on.The ever loveable, ever cute opossums would seem to present a mystery to evolution. Why and how would such a creature ever evolve the characteristic "playing opossum"? To stop mid chase and fall into a catatonic state seems to be a pretty lousy "defense mechanism". To a hungry predatory animal this would be fast food turned into sit down dining.
In Christ, GB
No, I am saying that ToE has to work triple time to come up with any kind of answer that even sounds remotely intelligible for opossums and other anomolous animal behavior and adaptations.So then you are saying God created possums to be quick meals for predators?
And as I noted, I have a dog who is completely opportunistic in his meals. He loves all sorts of dead animals, with or without ketchup. So, while your dogs may not show an interest in a dead opossum, that does not necessarily mean that all such predators act the same way as your dogs.Actually running triggers the predation instict in many predators. This is why it is usually so counter productive to run from a dog. Even one that wasn't "planning" to attack may do so if you run away. As I said I have seen our dogs ignore possums that were playing dead. Rabbits will also try freezing and then if that doesn't work they take off. Dogs will not ignore a running rabbit the way they will a "dead" possum.
So you've seen this dog attack a possum that was playing dead?No, I am saying that ToE has to work triple time to come up with any kind of answer that even sounds remotely intelligible for opossums and other anomolous animal behavior and adaptations.
And as I noted, I have a dog who is completely opportunistic in his meals. He loves all sorts of dead animals, with or without ketchup. So, while your dogs may not show an interest in a dead opossum, that does not necessarily mean that all such predators act the same way as your dogs.
A quick search provided this helpful site. For bear attacks one is supposed to play dead as a very last resort, but for mountain lion or dog attack it is suggested to fight back aggressively using whatever tools are available to do so.
How To Survive A Wild Animal Attack
Perhaps there is more than a simple answer to this question I have posted. I do certainly appreciate all of your input though, my friend!
God bless.
In Christ, GB
Not really, the explanation has been given, while creationism apparently has none at all.No, I am saying that ToE has to work triple time to come up with any kind of answer that even sounds remotely intelligible for opossums and other anomolous animal behavior and adaptations.
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