How do non-Catholics explain Eucharistic miracles, such as bleeding, and Marian...

[Optimax]

How can it draw attention away from Jesus if it IS Jesus?

I guess you missed it...the lady appeared to the children many times. And her message was always pointed to God and Jesus.

I watched the video.

Never heard Jesus mentioned once.

As far as "pointing" to God.

What does that mean.

As far as believing in God.

The devils do that.

 

[Fireinfolding]

What gives you the idea that what they're doing is worshipping?

Could be first impressions, even as we have heard the saying, "if it quacks like a duck" its typically a duck.

That sort of thing

 

[Rick Otto]

If I was a mod, I'd post this song occasionaly:
Eric Bibb & Maria Muldaur - Don't Ever Let Nobody Drag Your Spirit Down - YouTube

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Franny50

If Protestants believe Mary Is the mother of God,then why is it impossible for her to perform a miracle,when the Apostles performed miracles in Jesus's name.
I am Catholic and believe there is a place for Mary in Christian worship as long as our Lord comes first.
As for your question,I do not believe that the evidence of these apparitions can be disputed when there are tens of thousands of witnesses and scientific evidence.
​

One of my all time favorite movie series

Conan the Barbarian - Conan Prayer to Crom - YouTube

"Crom! I have never prayed to you before –
I have no tongue for it.
No one, not even you, will remember if we were good men or bad,
Why we fought or why we died.
No, all that matters is that two stood against many.
That's what's important.
Valor pleases you, Crom, so grant me one request –
Grant me revenge!
And if you do not listen, then the Hell with You!"



.

 

[Optimax]

Pray to Crom.

Pray to Mary.

Same results.

Pray to the Father in the Name of Jesus in faith.

That is the prayer that works!

 

[Rick Otto]

Better yet:
ARN0LD, tHE P@PeR dELivEry piG - YouTube
*no relation - I already have a bank account.

 

[Jig]

Blood in the Eucharist has been scientifically proven. Nobody said anything about Fatima being scientifically proven, but 17,000 witnesses is compelling.

I've heard about strange miracles happening in almost every religion. It is my opinion that most are counterfeited. While I leave room that some might be real - this leaves the question: Was it from God or Satan?

As for scientific testing, I don't doubt some samples came up positive for human blood. However, you cannot scientifically prove this is Jesus' blood. I good counterfeiter will use real blood.

 

[Jig]

A good test to do would be to take all the blood samples from all these supposed Eucharist miracles and do a simple blood type test. Or better yet, a DNA test.

Now this would be a scientific test that would make sense. If the samples were all the same blood type (or matched in DNA), then this would be strong evidence in favor of a miracle.

 

[Rev Randy]

God.

1. The Scriptures. The miracles that Jesus performed fulfilled all that was written of the Messiah by the prophets (Isaiah 61:1-2, Luke 4:16-20).


2. The miracles themselves proves Jesus was the Anointed One of God (John 3:2).

You men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the middle of you, as you yourselves also know: Acts 2:22


3. The prophecy spoken by Christ concerning the destruction of the Temple was fulfilled.

Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. “Do you see all these things?” he asked. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.” Matthew 24:1-2



Anyway, since you are unable to prove that the miracle at Fatima is from God, why should I believe in it? Didn't the LORD say we should ALWAYS test the spirits to see if they are from Him (1 John 4:1, 2 Peter 2:1, Matthew 7:15)?

PS. I was not asking for scientific proof. All I want is Scripture backing that the so-called miracles experienced by those 3 little children was from God.

I doubt an atheist would agree it's proof. Now I accept it but that's by faith.
I haven't put my faith in the miracle (if it be one) of Fatima. I have no need to do so. But if I did, it would be done by the same evidence: Faith. I didn't suggest you believe in it. I only suggest we not disparage unless we have examined it completely.
One day Christ took three guys up onto a hill. Two dead dudus appeared. Neither was God. Did people start worshipping them after that? For sure Petr wanted to erect dwelling places for them but I think that was due to the shock of seeing it. I mean he also made the understatement of the century: "It is good that we are here".
Some need things like this. I only need to see a sunset. I view a sunset as a miracle. But I don't worship that golden disk. I worship the Son while viewing it. Those seeing me could mistake such for my worshipping the Sun god. What appear to be a duck might not be a duck at all.

 

[Rev Randy]

Pray to Crom.

Pray to Mary.

Same results.

Pray to the Father in the Name of Jesus in faith.

That is the prayer that works!

I'd say Crom and Mary are a bit different. One was made up and the other is real. One is a false god and the other the mother of Christ. One is (supposedly) worshipped and the other asked for intercessory prayer. One is a Hollywood fabrication and the other blessed.

 

[Stryder06]

Hebrews gives more than a hint about why miracles are given by God.

How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will? (Hebrews 2:3-4)​

Miracles did accompany the message to help give validity to it. This is true. Thanks for the verse.

 

[Stryder06]

Kinda like following the teachings of a modern day prophet?

Not nearly. I don't follow the "public revelation is closed" school of thought.

It will come about after this That I will pour out My Spirit on all mankind; And your sons and daughters will prophesy, Your old men will dream dreams, Your young men will see visions

The issue isn't about how modern or ancient they are, but about how their message compares to what the scripture says.

 

[Jonathan95]

There are no Mary apparitions. Those are demonic. It's either satan or demons appearing as a woman, to further deceive people.

Apparitions of "Mary" go against the Scripture. The fruit of those apparitions are idol worship and superstition, thus it's all of satan.

"And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light." 2 Corinthians 11:4

 

[Stryder06]

Interesting that you'd complain about the way that Catholics pray, worship, and live godly lives and that you'd turn to 1 John 4:1 for support of your condemnation of the events at Fatima when it is precisely the words of saint John in 1 John 4:2-3 that point to the genuineness of the message from Fatima.

Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. (1 John 4:2-3)​

The message of Fatima both confesses Jesus come in the flesh and calls the faithful to remember that he shall come again to judge the world.

Remember this:
The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation

Demons can proclaim truth. As I said before, deception only works if you mix truth in with the lie. Tell the people Christ is coming back. Tell them that His heart burns with love for them. Tell them that He will judge the world.

All that's well and good because it's true. The problem however is that they're accepting that truth from the embodiment of a lie, for the dead know not anything. However, because people allow what their senses to be judge for them more than what is written, they fall into these deceptions, and then fight tooth and nail to prove they are of God. But if they studied the word and took it over their tradition, they'd see that the messages were being presented by those who seek their destruction.

 

[Albion]

There are no Mary apparitions. Those are demonic. It's either satan or demons appearing as a woman, to further deceive people.

You're assuming that they are genuine, however, just that the power behind them is demonic rather than Godly. But most of them have been shown to be nothing more than hoaxes or hallucinations.

 

[Standing Up]

You're assuming that they are genuine, however, just that the power behind them is demonic rather than Godly. But most of them have been shown to be nothing more than hoaxes or hallucinations.

Good point. From a cursory look at the evidence, none look confirmed, but appear as myth handed down. As such, the question is why bother with these things? It appears to "worship" the creation, rather than the Creator.

 

[Optimax]

I'd say Crom and Mary are a bit different. One was made up and the other is real. One is a false god and the other the mother of Christ. One is (supposedly) worshipped and the other asked for intercessory prayer. One is a Hollywood fabrication and the other blessed.

In the realm of effective prayer it is the same.

Why is it the same?

Because born again people are not instructed to pray to either.

 

[Standing Up]

Interesting that you'd complain about the way that Catholics pray, worship, and live godly lives and that you'd turn to 1 John 4:1 for support of your condemnation of the events at Fatima when it is precisely the words of saint John in 1 John 4:2-3 that point to the genuineness of the message from Fatima.

Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. (1 John 4:2-3)
​

The message of Fatima both confesses Jesus come in the flesh and calls the faithful to remember that he shall come again to judge the world.

Huh? I don't read where any of the 3 messages even mention Christ.

There's lots about the entity calling someone "Our Lady", but nothing about Christ.

Our Lady of Fátima - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

PS. Remember that Christ in the flesh means Mary is no longer a virgin; it is proof of His humanity. Can't have it both ways. (Conceived as a virgin, yes; born with blood and water, with 'afterbirth'.) IOW, your proof text is proof against the entity.

 

[Root of Jesse]

I can't speak for anyone else, but personally (and we're in the minority here) my denomination holds to the biblical teaching that when you die you, well you know, die. There is no life after death. Man was not created with an immortal soul. Etc. Therefore whenever I hear about Marian apparitions, I can't help but associate those with the demonic.

And in regards to the miracles. Well when I look at scripture I see the lame walking, the blind seeing, the deaf hearing, and the mute speaking. Those are miracles. Your Eucharistic miracles are miracles in the sense that the unnatural happens, but they aren't God given miracles.

Christ says otherwise, as does the book of Revelation.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Uncharitable??
It's dangerous if it's not true!
But why uncharitable? What does love have to do with truth in
this case? I LOVE catholic people, but if I think that this thing
is demonic it would be less loving for me to pretend it's not?
Nuuu.. don't think so.
Besides, isn't demonic oppression everywhere?
Even in protestant churches??

So, to look at it from an unbiased POV:
are they hoax, genuine or demonic?
dunno.
Could God make statues weep?
SURE,
Would He?
Can't see WHY that would happen.
And it's ONLY happening in catholicism.
Which makes it seem much more doubtful.

We're not talking about statues weeping. Or Mary's face in toast. We're talking about substantial, repeat apparitions, and enduring Eucharistic miracles.

The tilma with Our Lady of Guadalupe has existed for 500 + years. The Lanciano Eucharistic miracle happened, and continues to exist 600 years later.

Why only to Catholics? We're the only ones who revere Mary and the Eucharist the way it's supposed to be.