How do I deal with you guys?

[Impossible]

This is going to be a strange question, I know. Let me give you a little backround information, then Ill lay out my problem.

First, Im am not really non christian, however I do not fall into any denomination or really any organized church. I was raised Lutheran (yeah, I know, a rebel from the start), got confirmed, but after that I just stopped going to church. I know its a conflicting view between me and you, but it hit me that nothing you do at church is ever going to help you. Dont get me wrong, if you want to go around for an hour and a half celebrating your joy of religion that is perfectly fine with me, I just dont believe it will in any way make you a better person, so I stopped going. I see no point in singing songs, listening to bible verses/sermons that relay incredibly simple lessons that are supposed to teach morals that I already live by, all that good stuff. My personal belief system consists of this- I believe in God, and my big plan is just to help people and dont do anything I consider wrong. To me, people that think that they are somehow pardoned from what they do during the day by memorizing bible verses at night are completely wrong, as are people that do things just to score brownie points with God.I dont see why knowing Biblical history has any use to man other than giving him morals, which I really have no use for because they were passed down to me by my parents in the first place. God isnt going to ask me to recite verses from the bible, nor is he going to ask me about Jesuses life. All that matters in the end is how good of a person you were and the good deeds you did, and I think thats something that nobody tends to see.

Now to my problem- I know a good amount of people that are very strict into mainstream christianity and log lots of hours at their church (Im going to leave out the specific denomination, it really doesnt matter). They have a pretty involved youth group going, and I have been spending time with them both at non church related events and a couple mild church meetings. Religion was never a huge discussion topic in the beginning and we have never just sat down and said, "Here is where you stand, and here is where I stand", but as we spend more time togeather and I get thrown into these religious debates, it becomes more and more apparent that we have some fundamental differences in belief and I really dont want things to get out of hand. They are trying to convert me by trying to somehow disprove my beliefs, and the only thing that worries me about that is that its going to get more and more intense until it becomes out of hand.

So my question to you is, How do I calm this whole thing down and be able to cool off the flames without compromising my position? How can I present my beliefs to them in a way that wont make things get incredibly intense?

 

[Victory of the Cross]

I myself only recently started going to church, even though i have been a christian for years, Going to Church does not make you a christian like going in a garage does not make you a Car, if people like to go to church thats great, but if they prefer to be alone with God, to worship jesus that is also great, as long as it Jesus you seek, buildings do not matter, and with your friends as long as you tell them that you love jesus and follow him they should respect that you choose not to go to church.

 

[Victory of the Cross]

Having confessed Jesus as lord of your life is the main thing, all else is just trimmings on the cake

 

[Impossible]

Well, not going to church is just one of the issues. Take this for example-

Frankly, I think that anyone who takes the Bible word for words is crazy. I know most christians use the excuse "Well, its the word of god, it cannot be corrupted", yet in reality it was taken from the memory of man, written by man, then translated by man. It contradicts itself multiple times, it supports actions we consider as of today immoral, and its imperfect. I think that it should be taken for its general idea, not taken word for word. When I get into a dicussion with people, they take direct offense to that statement and absoultey go crazy. Im asking how I can stop these big time debates that are going to leave a mark.

 

[TheTruthinFiction]

Well, not going to church is just one of the issues. Take this for example-

Frankly, I think that anyone who takes the Bible word for words is crazy. I know most christians use the excuse "Well, its the word of god, it cannot be corrupted", yet in reality it was taken from the memory of man, written by man, then translated by man. It contradicts itself multiple times, it supports actions we consider as of today immoral, and its imperfect. I think that it should be taken for its general idea, not taken word for word. When I get into a dicussion with people, they take direct offense to that statement and absoultey go crazy. Im asking how I can stop these big time debates that are going to leave a mark.

I'm joining in as a newly going to church Christian, I understand what you are saying. There are still and will always be issues between myself and church but I can see that the bigger picture (God) is more important than an issue and put it aside. People taking direct offense, sound familiar to any of you all, I have a post, not for sure if it is still up that talks about that. How to avoid a debate, first and this was hard for me to learn and for me to still go by, your opinion is not anymore right than the other person, both are opinions and really, neither side has the right to tell the other that their opinion is wrong.

It can be difficult when it's something you or the other person disagrees with and is passionate about. Keep an open mind, this was a problem of mine, I wanted others to be open-minded about my opinion but I wasn't open-minded about their opinion. Not calling people, "crazy" that take the words of the Bible as the word (not for sure what you were saying there, as the, "set in stone truth" maybe?) is a place to start. You wouldn't want me or someone else to say you were crazy for not believing every word of the Bible, would you? Another thing that I notice is that you keep saying that you take this or that as this or that and that is your right but that is not the only one and it does come off that you are saying your way is right, make sense? The key is to remember that when talking to others who you disagree with that their opinion is just as good as yours. Hope that helps.

 

[dvd_holc]

I would love to talk to about your views and why you have come to believe the way you do. But, the address of the post is about how to deal with others.

First, I would say that a few things that need to be used to have a good debate. Each person has to remain clam. If there is no peace then it will become a agruement. Ways to make it this way on your part is being humble and using self-control. I am married. That means I have someone close to me that understands my subltes and thought processes. It is all more difficult to stay humble and self control when we have had the same arguement many times. Yet, in order to keep the lines of communication open the thing that I can do is remain calm, be humble, and have self control. I am highlighting this characteristics because I think they have a big result on communication with others. Also, they are written in the bible in Galations 6. They have been proven to be true to me. I hope you see that they can be true for you too. Also, it can be good to take breaks if the lines of communication have been closed. A fint of anger does not mean the lines of communication are closed.

 

[ChurchBoy]

Well, not going to church is just one of the issues. Take this for example-

Frankly, I think that anyone who takes the Bible word for words is crazy. I know most christians use the excuse "Well, its the word of god, it cannot be corrupted", yet in reality it was taken from the memory of man, written by man, then translated by man. It contradicts itself multiple times, it supports actions we consider as of today immoral, and its imperfect. I think that it should be taken for its general idea, not taken word for word. When I get into a dicussion with people, they take direct offense to that statement and absoultey go crazy. Im asking how I can stop these big time debates that are going to leave a mark.

I was an atheist until age 30. As I started to read the Bible I was very interested to what it claims. I studied the history of the Bible itself and concluded that is accurate. If you wish can you state what specific "contradictions" you are referring to? What specific actions does the Bible support?

As for your friends, if they are your friends,then they will respect your beliefs. Just be honest with them. I had several Christian friends that tried to "convert" me before I became a Christian. But God doesn't want converts, he desires disciples. I becamed a Christian because I desired a relationship with Him. There was no conversion on my part just an acceptance of who HE is.

 

[Knight]

Well, not going to church is just one of the issues. Take this for example-

Frankly, I think that anyone who takes the Bible word for words is crazy. I know most christians use the excuse "Well, its the word of god, it cannot be corrupted", yet in reality it was taken from the memory of man, written by man, then translated by man. It contradicts itself multiple times, it supports actions we consider as of today immoral, and its imperfect. I think that it should be taken for its general idea, not taken word for word. When I get into a dicussion with people, they take direct offense to that statement and absoultey go crazy. Im asking how I can stop these big time debates that are going to leave a mark.

I doubt I can address every single one of your concerns but I believe I can at least comment on this one.

The Bible has as its ultimate author the Holy Spirit. It is God-breathed. No contradictions stand in the face of honest interpretation.

Let me ask you a simple question. How do you know which parts of the Bible to believe and which not to believe? What do you base this decision on?

 

[VickiY]

Have you tried accepting the fact that their religious beliefs are different than yours, and you are not likely to change them, and you say they cannot change you...so drop it. There is no need to discuss or to debate, or to even mention your views to them. Should they insist on trying to pin you down to a statement of your beliefs, tell them that you are a Christian, however, you prefer not to get into debates as to customs, churches, verses, or beliefs. Then change the subject. That's all. Do this whenever the subject comes up, and eventually the questions will stop. If they persist, you may wish to say, calmly, and without rancour, that you believe that debates among people concerning matters of faith are merely calculated to encourage pride and division, so you do not discuss them.

 

[Impossible]

Key words being in honest interpretation.

If I didnt make it clear, Im not disputing that for the most part the bible is correct.

Im just saying that with man help, it has been written in such a way that you can interpret it to mean several unintended things. For instance, you can use parts to promote doing drugs, taking slaves, etc. Many of the mentioned contradictions come from these.

Ill support anything the Bible supports as a main point, Im just not going to take a 10 word clip of the Bible and base my life around it.

Thats not what I came to argue about though. If you want to have a drawn out debate, I have no problem with that. Its just a different subject for a different thread.

 

[ChurchBoy]

Key words being in honest interpretation.

If I didnt make it clear, Im not disputing that for the most part the bible is correct.

Im just saying that with man help, it has been written in such a way that you can interpret it to mean several unintended things. For instance, you can use parts to promote doing drugs, taking slaves, etc. Many of the mentioned contradictions come from these.

Ill support anything the Bible supports as a main point, Im just not going to take a 10 word clip of the Bible and base my life around it.

Thats not what I came to argue about though. If you want to have a drawn out debate, I have no problem with that. Its just a different subject for a different thread.

I would say that because people have used the Bible for their own selfish gains doesn't mean thats what the Bible promotes. Take slavery for example. The Bible speaks of slavery but it doesn't, in my view, "promote" or "endorse" slavery. Slavery can take many forms and the Bible speaks on these issues.

 

[Knight]

Key words being in honest interpretation.

If I didnt make it clear, Im not disputing that for the most part the bible is correct.

Im just saying that with man help, it has been written in such a way that you can interpret it to mean several unintended things. For instance, you can use parts to promote doing drugs, taking slaves, etc. Many of the mentioned contradictions come from these.

Ill support anything the Bible supports as a main point, Im just not going to take a 10 word clip of the Bible and base my life around it.

Thats not what I came to argue about though. If you want to have a drawn out debate, I have no problem with that. Its just a different subject for a different thread.

It seems that your problem is more with man's fallable interpretation of the Bible than with the text itself.

It also seems that you are using your own reason to tell you what to believe in Scripture and what to reject.

However, I agree that this is not the forum for this discussion. I would like to discuss it with you if that is your wish.

 

[dvd_holc]

"However, I agree that this is not the forum for this discussion. I would like to discuss it with you if that is your wish."

I also agree. That is why I did not bring it up other than showing the desire to talk about it. Will you start another thread for this?

 

[Impossible]

PM sent.

 

[£amb]

This is going to be a strange question, I know. Let me give you a little backround information, then Ill lay out my problem.

First, Im am not really non christian, however I do not fall into any denomination or really any organized church. I was raised Lutheran (yeah, I know, a rebel from the start), got confirmed, but after that I just stopped going to church. I know its a conflicting view between me and you, but it hit me that nothing you do at church is ever going to help you. Dont get me wrong, if you want to go around for an hour and a half celebrating your joy of religion that is perfectly fine with me, I just dont believe it will in any way make you a better person, so I stopped going. I see no point in singing songs, listening to bible verses/sermons that relay incredibly simple lessons that are supposed to teach morals that I already live by, all that good stuff. My personal belief system consists of this- I believe in God, and my big plan is just to help people and dont do anything I consider wrong. To me, people that think that they are somehow pardoned from what they do during the day by memorizing bible verses at night are completely wrong, as are people that do things just to score brownie points with God.I dont see why knowing Biblical history has any use to man other than giving him morals, which I really have no use for because they were passed down to me by my parents in the first place. God isnt going to ask me to recite verses from the bible, nor is he going to ask me about Jesuses life. All that matters in the end is how good of a person you were and the good deeds you did, and I think thats something that nobody tends to see.

Now to my problem- I know a good amount of people that are very strict into mainstream christianity and log lots of hours at their church (Im going to leave out the specific denomination, it really doesnt matter). They have a pretty involved youth group going, and I have been spending time with them both at non church related events and a couple mild church meetings. Religion was never a huge discussion topic in the beginning and we have never just sat down and said, "Here is where you stand, and here is where I stand", but as we spend more time togeather and I get thrown into these religious debates, it becomes more and more apparent that we have some fundamental differences in belief and I really dont want things to get out of hand. They are trying to convert me by trying to somehow disprove my beliefs, and the only thing that worries me about that is that its going to get more and more intense until it becomes out of hand.

So my question to you is, How do I calm this whole thing down and be able to cool off the flames without compromising my position? How can I present my beliefs to them in a way that wont make things get incredibly intense?

Don't expect church to change who you are...it's you yourself that's going to have to change anything. Church for me is to be with other believers, to study the bible, to uplift God in some songs. It's not what happens in church that makes me a believer, it's what happens when I get home. I read the bible, I spend time in prayer, I study the words I have read. I'll admit that I don't totally study the history part of the bible, but I have read into it and it is quite amazing. These are the things that make me a believer, not my church. I do memorize my bible verses, but it's not to impress God. It's so when someone asks me about an issue...then I'm ready with a godly/biblical answer. 2 Tim. Preach the Word; be pepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke, and encourage--with great patience and careful instruction. What this is saying is that you should be ready at any time to be able to tell someone why you believe in God. How can anybody explain why they believe if they never study God's word and to understand themselves why they have the faith to believe. It's great to want to do good things to other people, but what if you come in contact with a non-believer who poses you a question about your faith....that is not the time to say "uuum, I'll get back to you on that". That may be their only chance to hear about God. God may not ask why you didn't memorize your verses, but may ask why you were'nt ready to share His word with another person.

I agree what VickiY posted earlier. No matter what religious group you are in, there will always be differing views on many subjects. What should matter is that you are gathered to fellowship. To be able to discuss the most important thing...of course that's God. I have been in groups where they nit-picked about how certain things should be, but it was them in the wrong. I told them my only concern was to better myself as a believer and to grown in christian maturity.

I apologize if I went on and on.

 

[Lucubratus]

Impossible: I had the same problem you currently have, and sometimes it will crop up again with members of my family. I'm non denominational and chose to walk my path "alone" so to speak. It's not for everybody.
The "how do you deal" with people who want to argue with you now...I can't begin to tell you how many times members of my family would either literally stir it up or twist around a conversation to lead right back to what they view were my shortcomings because my "denomination" wasn't "theirs" and how many times they tried to "convert" me. *sighs*
sometimes all you really can do is walk away. I don't like to partake in an argument with other religions where people begin to throw around bible versus heedlessly because it heads down the path of judgement making, disrespecting your neighbor, etc..and all of that takes from the glory of God. There is another thread somewhere on a sinful subject, and that is exactly what is happening -and its counter-productive to Christ.
Sometimes a "you may be right" works. ;-) Other times, a simple "I prefer not to argue over who is right or wrong because it takes away from MY personal relationship with God/Jesus" works even better."

Hope that helps. PM if you wish.

 

[TheTruthinFiction]

Key words being in honest interpretation.

If I didnt make it clear, Im not disputing that for the most part the bible is correct.

Im just saying that with man help, it has been written in such a way that you can interpret it to mean several unintended things. For instance, you can use parts to promote doing drugs, taking slaves, etc. Many of the mentioned contradictions come from these.

Ill support anything the Bible supports as a main point, Im just not going to take a 10 word clip of the Bible and base my life around it.

Thats not what I came to argue about though. If you want to have a drawn out debate, I have no problem with that. Its just a different subject for a different thread.

The truth is everything in life can and will be interpeted differently by each person. As basic examples in everyday life, a man tells a woman she is pretty. One woman will think he is a jerk for trying to flirt with her, another woman will think he is trying to get something from her, be it a business gain or something physical yet another woman will see it as what it was meant to be, a compliment. It is even harder on the internet since we can't hear voice tones and have to decide whether a person is trying to be disruptive or is just interested and as someone else mentioned we all have subtle habits that those that are around us everyday know and understand but most people think are annoying.

Also know that no one expects you to take a 10 word clip from the Bible and live by it. I'm lost on the part about different thread for a debate. Also keep in mind when talking to Christians, they have or better have realized that man's words and studies are nothing compared to God. And what will happen in a debate about the Bible, between you or anyone else and a Christian is their faith in God will go above anything you can give as, "proof" because you or the person who offered the proof are only a human.

 

[chilehed]

This is going to be a strange question, I know. Let me give you a little backround information, then Ill lay out my problem.......

So my question to you is, How do I calm this whole thing down and be able to cool off the flames without compromising my position? How can I present my beliefs to them in a way that wont make things get incredibly intense?

Based on what you've said so far, perhaps the best way to end the conversation is to tell them that your ideas about religion are already fully baked, you're not interested in examining them to make sure whether or not they're factually correct, and that you'd just as soon not discuss it anymore.

But I don't really think that that's your best option.

 

[Adoniram]

Well this is an interesting discussion. And having "opinions" about this and "opinions" about that is all well and good, up to a point. But Jesus is clear on this one point. He says "I am the way, the truth, and the life; No man cometh unto the Father, but by me." "He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into judgement, but is passed from death unto life." "He that believeth on him is not condemned; but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

That is the truth of the matter. You must believe in the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved. No other "opinions" are worth 2 cents.

Doing "good works" is nice, but it cannot save you. Going to this or that church is nice, but it cannot save you. So many people try to sugar-coat Jesus' message, but there it is. It cannot be simpler or more straight-forward.

So, in my opinion, if you want to have an opinion, let it be to make Jesus the Lord of your life.

 

[Impossible]

Well this is an interesting discussion. And having "opinions" about this and "opinions" about that is all well and good, up to a point. But Jesus is clear on this one point. He says "I am the way, the truth, and the life; No man cometh unto the Father, but by me." "He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into judgement, but is passed from death unto life." "He that believeth on him is not condemned; but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

That is the truth of the matter. You must believe in the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved. No other "opinions" are worth 2 cents.

Doing "good works" is nice, but it cannot save you. Going to this or that church is nice, but it cannot save you. So many people try to sugar-coat Jesus' message, but there it is. It cannot be simpler or more straight-forward.

So, in my opinion, if you want to have an opinion, let it be to make Jesus the Lord of your life.

I never made any mention that I did not believe in Jesus, God, or any of the bare Christian values.

But I guess not going to church just makes me an angry atheist.