How do I become saved?

[Beanieboy]

As in many other areas the simple answers are wrong. What are the simple answers:

• Just believe in God. It doesn't matter what you do.
• If there's any sin you haven't repented of, you're doomed. And repent means stop.

Jesus rejects both of these. His teaching about judgement show people being judged by their actions, though that's not the only cause. (Rejecting him is also there.)

But he says that we should forgive someone even if they do the same thing 7 times a day, and that we should forgive because God does. (I mention the second thing because otherwise it looks like we have to forgive, but God doesn't.)

As far as I can tell, we're expected to love God and neighbor, and show that in our actions, but Jesus is aware that we will no doubt continue to sin, maybe even seven times a day.

I believe being imperfect may have been part of the design. When we sin against one another, we have to learn the harm of the sin done to you to know it affects others when you act without love to another. We have to learn humility in humbling our pride to ask forgiveness of another. We have to learn to let go of hurt and anger in granting forgiveness, and understand forgives helps the person granting it. How many times should you forgive? As many times as you would want forgiveness granted from the father.

I believe the real message of the Gospel, is that you are loved by God, right now, where you are, the way you are, God loves you, and nothing separates you from that.

So, I have a friend who is always late, and I forgive him because he forgives me when i lose my temper. That doesn't mean him being late is ok, or he can be as late as he wants to be, nor is it ok that I rage, nor can I go off on him like that whenever I want. We just accept the other's flaws along with their gifts. (That's an analogy of not having freedom to sin as much as you want, but to strive to do good, the freedom of knowing if you make a bad decision and sin, it's just time to pick yourself up and keep going, not get kicked out.

Some more conservative modern day churches, on the other hand, would be like my friend and I telling the other how they need to be on time or we're done, or I have to control my emotions.

The focus is on sin and obedience. Love = obedience. If your wife said, "I think I'm a great wife. I have never cheated on you, never lied to you, have never killed you nor stolen from you," you should be worried. She focuses on what not to do.
If she was focusing on love, the positive, that fulfills the law, she wouldn't be concentrating on not harming, but actively demonstrating love.

1 Corinthians 13 says that without love, you prayers and Speaking in Tongues arw noisy gongs, sacrificing you life has gained you nothing, and despite your miracles, you are nothing.

Whoever says he hates his brother but loves God is a liar, because if we cannot love someone we have seen, how can we love God whom we have not?

1 John 4:7-8 Brothers let us love one another for love is of God and everyone that loves is born of God and knows God; he that does not love does not know God for God is love.

Even the Parable of the sheep and goats was not required goid work to be allowed into heaven. It was the love in their heart that made them do these things almost like second nature, "forget about it" attitude.

And despite this, I am surprised how the message remains: Repent of your sin!

And quite honestly, the person thinks themself holy for going to church. and not killing anyone or stealing. He's married, so decided until marriage to repent of fornicating, nor did his church require abstinence until marriage to teach, become a member or hold office. He hasn't committed adultery, well not physically, or he may be having multiple affairs, as is the culture of his country, where men are given a pass. He focusses on the sins of others, secretly feeling morally superior, tells women going into abortion clinic that they are murderers, yet condemns single moms, single parents on food stamps stealing his tax money. He protests Pride, quotes Leviticus and the death sentence for man having sex with a man as with a woman. but when confronted as Hate Speech because it states killing a targeted group of people, he throws God under the bus and says they are God's words, and golly, he was just spreading the love of Jesus, a boldface lie he believes because he believes tough love - yelling at people, warning them of hell, branding individuals he has never met, infers that they should be killed, and are hated by God, is the only kind of love he knows. Unfortunately to those on the receiving end so no distinguishing factor between him, and a nonChristian:
NC may use dehumanizing language to make harming the person seem justified.
The Christian may just freely misuse the word "abomination," or may tell GLBTQ they are hated by God, and his enemy. He preaches, but refuses to listen, cutting communication, the brands the community as "reprobate," saying God just gave up on the entire community. If you look to Westboro Church, the vulgarity of the language and the hated they spew poised as love matches the homophobic nonChristian, maybe a little more brazen and shameless.

And I question if some people who live this way are saved, and no matter how many times I trying to bring up love, it quickly turns to a yeah, but...
Yes, we have to love but it is loving to point out your sin.
Depends on if you have a 2x4,in your eye.

So, we will debate faith vs works, OSAS or nobody is safe, but rarely are the two most important commandments followed, and if not, the person is not a follower of Christ. And because of their arrogance and self righteousness, refuse to seek God in council to see if the are wrong about an issue. So, being the major theme of the gospel, there is some mental gymnastics you twist around to the focus on sin.

I question like that is saved, and there is nothing one can say that will make them change their attitude, the most difficult type of person to witness to

 

[setst777]

As in many other areas the simple answers are wrong. What are the simple answers:

• Just believe in God. It doesn't matter what you do.
• If there's any sin you haven't repented of, you're doomed. And repent means stop.

Jesus rejects both of these. His teaching about judgement show people being judged by their actions, though that's not the only cause. (Rejecting him is also there.)

But he says that we should forgive someone even if they do the same thing 7 times a day, and that we should forgive because God does. (I mention the second thing because otherwise it looks like we have to forgive, but God doesn't.)

As far as I can tell, we're expected to love God and neighbor, and show that in our actions, but Jesus is aware that we will no doubt continue to sin, maybe even seven times a day.

Hi Hedrick,

You communicated your thoughts very well, and I do agree.

Even so, the fact that we will sin in thought, word and deed seven days a week must be clearly contrasted to those who claim to believe in Jesus, and who know what is right, but continually and deliberately keep on with those sins anyway. What this shows is a lack of faith and love for Jesus our Lord and our neighbor.

Let no one think that, because God is forgiving, that we can take advantage of that grace and still think we are saved just because we forgive others. God looks on the heart and intentions. And if we truly love God and our neighbor, will we deliberately keep trying to hold onto our own lives - what we can get from others, how we can take advantage of others for our benefit?

Romans 6 (NIV)
6 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means!

Romans 6:22
22 But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life.

Deliberate sin reveals a rejection of the Spirit's guidance and empowerment to give us victory over sin by the Spirit of Christ that lives in the believer.

See Romans 6 and Romans 8.

James 1:12-15
12 Blessed is the man who endures temptation, for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life, which the Lord promised to those who love him.
13 Let no man say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God,” for God can’t be tempted by evil, and he himself tempts no one. 14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own lust, and enticed. 15 Then the lust, when it has conceived, bears sin; and the sin, when it is full grown, produces death. 16 Don’t be deceived, my beloved brothers.

Hebrews 3:13-15 (NIV)
13 But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called “Today,” so that none of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness. 14 We have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original conviction firmly to the very end. 15 As has just been said:

“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts
as you did in the rebellion.”

Salvation is for those who live and walk according to the Spirit God gave us. . .

Romans 8:12 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation — but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. 13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.

2 Timothy 2 (WEB) Bolding mine… 19 However God’s firm foundation stands, having this seal, “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of the Lord depart from unrighteousness.”

Revelation 3:14-22 (NIV)
14 “To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:
These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God’s creation. 15 I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! 16 So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth. 17 You say, ‘I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. 18 I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see.
19 Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest and repent. 20 Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.
21 To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I was victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne. 22 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”

Revelation 3:1-6 (NIV)
3 “To the angel of the church in Sardis write:
These are the words of him who holds the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead. 2 Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have found your deeds unfinished in the sight of my God. 3 Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; hold it fast, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.
4 Yet you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes. They will walk with me, dressed in white, for they are worthy. 5 The one who is victorious will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out the name of that person from the book of life, but will acknowledge that name before my Father and his angels. 6 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches.

1 Corinthians 9:26-27 (WEB)
26 I therefore run like that, as not uncertainly. I fight like that, as not beating the air, 27 but I beat my body and bring it into submission, lest by any means, after I have preached to others, I myself should be rejected.

Hebrews 10:26-30 (NIV)
26 If WE deliberately keep on sinning after WE have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
29 How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished

• who has trampled the Son of God underfoot,
• who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them,
• and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?

30 For WE know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” and again,
“The Lord will judge HIS people.”

Notice that the object of more severe punishment were saved because they were "sanctified by the blood of the covenant" and they insulted the Spirit of grace. And, the Lord will judge HIS people (vs 30).

The Lord's people receive a more severe punishment than those never saved for deliberately sinning against Him.

The Scriptures clearly show that those who are saved by faith in Jesus can definitely succumb to sin, temptation and false doctrine and, if not repented of, will definitely lead to a loss of salvation. We must continue to walk in the Spirit.

Galatians 6:7-9 (NIV)
7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows.
8 Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction;
whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. 9 Let US not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time WE will reap a harvest IF WE do not give up.

We see many Scriptures from the Gospels to Revelation concerning those who were in "the faith," or "grace" but fell away. "The faith" and "grace" are special phrases used in Scripture that can only refer to "the faith" and "grace" that the Gospel declares as salvation and righteousness onto salvation.

Jude 3 (WEB)
3 Beloved, while I was very eager to write to you about our common salvation, I was constrained to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for “the faith” which was once for all delivered to the saints.

Those who were in the faith can so fall away as to be lost. NOTE that “the” in front of “faith” identifies the faith mentioned as the true faith of Scripture.

1 Timothy 1:19 (NIV)
19 holding on to faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and so have suffered shipwreck with regard to “the faith.”

1 Timothy 6:10 (NIV)
10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from “the faith” and pierced themselves with many griefs.

Lord Jesus gave many warnings to repent regarding Churches in Revelation. I gave Scriptures for this as well. Only a few did not fall into sin...

Revelation 3:4-5 (NIV)
4 Yet you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes. They will walk with me, dressed in white, for they are worthy.
5 (WEB) Bolding mine… 5 He who overcomes will be arrayed in white garments, and I will in no way blot his name out of the book of life, and I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Blessings

 

[Beanieboy]

Can I ask, what does it mean to continue in sin, if you still admit, as I do that we all sin as Christians, but don't deliberately do it? The sins I do are done because I chose to, a bad decision. I don't acciddentally lie. I know when I do it I am trying to save face, embarrassed, avoiding conflict or punishment. i tr not to lie, but I still do it, and admit my sins to the person I lied to and to God.

I am also confused by hearing "being forgiven doesn't mean you are free to sin." That's a given. If I dated someone, and they cheated, and needed to lie as well, and I forgave them, the first words out of their mouth won't be "cool! I'm going to do it again." "Thanks for forgiving my tardiness, boss. So guess I'll be here tomorrow when I feel like it." If you have that attitude, I don't think your relationship with God or another is something that concerns you too much, because the boyfriend/girlfriend will leave, your friend will no longer stay your friend, or you will lose your job.

What I think this "continue to sin" usually refers to is homosexuality in particular, and yet those who call it sin so often lie, or is it a lying "lifestyle"? Saying, for example, that the Bible is clear on the issue is false, this stated by those who are theologians on both sides. In Romans, for example, Paul seems to have invented a word by combining two, so one must speculate what he meant in the context to decide how to translate. The word homosexual, despite what lay people believe, was not in the bible until 1946. Regardless of one's conclusion of declaring sin or not, to say the bible is clear either shows ignorance, having done no research despite it being at one's fingertips, numerous youtube videos on the subject, and have no idea who wrote Leviticus, nor have even read the entire book, so unintentional lying, irresponsible use and respect of Scripture, hypocrisy in not staying Kosher, or claiming to be given a new covenant by Christ while holding GLBTQ to the Old Covenant they don't keep -except two versus.

There are those who, knowing that theologians are split and agree that the bible isn't as clear as most think, claim it is clear anyway, which deliberately lies, because one prefers to believe the lie, and make others believe it. They will use the bible to "prove" a homosexual orientation does exist because it isn't in a book written 2000 years ago, just like mental illness is actually demons because paranoid schizophrenia and psychosis appear nowhere in scripture, and your grandma chose dementia, because neither is it in the bible. Some people choose a colorblind lifestyle. It's simply dishonest discourse, done deliberately, to justify one's position, and prove themselves riggt.

Saying sexual orientation is a choice is false, as GLBTQ people have said from the beginning, and studies support that.
When asked when I hsd chosen to become gay, I asked when they chose to be straight - did they sit down with an excel spread sheet, weigh the pros and cons of each side, then choose? When asked, not sure how to answer because no one ever asked, they fumble with, one summer, I just started noticing the opposite sex...
Some will lie, and say they chose to be straight, so it begs the question, are you attracted to both)?Of course not! So, where is the choice?

Anita Bryant claimed that because gays can't reoroduce, they have to recruit,and are after your children, which is false, claimed they are pedophiles, again, proven false, or claim the Old Covenant iof Leviticus still applies, at least for two verses, and as has hapoened in Uganda, now have the death penalty, thanks to evangelical Scott Lively. He's not spoken out against, not denounced, and yet his life goal, from the book Pink Swastika that lies that homosexuals were responsible for the Nazi movement, to going to third world countries with the threat of GLBT whose fictitious gay agenda is to recruit children, destroy marriage, Christianity, and society as a whole, to convince countries to criminalize homisexuality with execution,

yet, he is not judged as not being Christian for targeting gays by lying, and slandering, to convince govt to enact the death penalty for GLBTQ people, and is not rebuked, is not denounced by evangelicals, as so misrepresents the Bible it becomes the antithesis of its purpose. I have a Christian friend from Uganda, who left his bible, because of the violence (think 1970's gay bashing) had created. He is unsure what he believes anymore because the message of God's love was replaced with God's hatred of GLBTQ people, and God's thumbs up to beat gays to death. It's not just the govt. It's just you, walking home, even perceived as gay, makes you a target for being beaten to killed, sometimes by people that claim to be Christian.
(see documentary on youtube: God loves Uganda)


Here is a Christian Pastor saying that if he had a button to kill gays, would push it until it broke. And had 10k subscribers following him. No rebuke. Just silence.

It can'r be discussed here unless one states it is a sin. to say otherwise is judged as promoting it, like you get a free phone when you switch. So the issue never resolves.

IMHO, most "is it a sin" question can be answered by asking: Am I loving my neighbor as myself? Is fighting to keep discrimination legal in Florida as Bryant did, using lies and slander to persuade her Save the Children campaign loving her neighbor? No.

Is adultery loving your wife? If you vow monogamy, then no, and in addition need to lie. It may lead to divirce. No, it isn't loving your neighbor.

Lying breaks trust in the other.

I don't steal, and I wouldn't want someone to steal from me. So, stealing is not loving your neighbor.

There is a perp and victim , but i see posts, like, "would you want a person in a position in the church who actively murdered people?" A serial killer? I would call the police. "Or a person actively committing adultery?" Ask the spouse. It will end in divorce, because it breaks trust in the other.

And Ernie and Bert loving one another? It isn't even a sin against others. It is consensual. While one can debate it with GLBTQ who are Christian, it's absurd to say to a nonChristian gay person that you demand they follow your religion, just as it would be for a Jew to demand you give up pork to be kosher.

"Well, sin is sin." Not really. I don't believe lying about your age and murdering someone are the same in
God's eyes. If they are, God is not just. The bible says that if we have lusted, we have committed adultery, or hated our brother, committed murder because, as Buddhism teaches, hate in one's thoughts, become hateful words, become hateful actions. If you hold lust in your heart, it is a matter of time before one gives in to temptation.

But because "sin is sin" is believed as truth, Ernie and Bert having a committed monogamous relationship is the same as the attempted gang rape in Sodom and Gomorrah, the temple male prostitute sex worship of Romans under Caligula, to child molestation, murder, adultery, and stealing.

Imagine someone comparing your marriage to a violent gang rape of men on a woman, or to molesting a child.

Imagine growing up singing Jesus Loves Me, to suddenly hearing you are an abomination, detested by God, who commands that you be executed.

Imagine how a gay person who isn'r Christian hears that: that the God you believe in hates them and is ok with you murdering them. Wow! Where can I sign up for one of the most scariest sounding religions ever?!

And quoting Paul Cameron, whose claims have been proven false, as truth, makes one an innocent liar if they didn't know, or a deliberate liar that has cause a great deal of harm, yet this is allowed. The lie is justified. The harm to their neighbor, whether it comes in the form of discrimination or physical violence, ignores the command to love thy neighbor as thyself, or lies again, claiming the effort to keep discrimination legal is very loving, calling darkness light. Not a peep.

So if the are not loving their neighbor as themselves, they are not following Jesus. One would think that would be of grave concern for people who talk of truth so often, but it is common, and often ignored.

But recently, the HS keeps weighing the gravity of punishment of anyone who ever convinced GLBTQ that they were hated by the Father, especially if it had turned the person away from God, or led to suicide. Such people serve a different God, one whose sole purpose is to lead souls away from God.

Really, like the HS won't give this thing a rest

 

[setst777]

Can I ask, what does it mean to continue in sin, if you still admit, as I do that we all sin as Christians, but don't deliberately do it?

setst RE:
A true Christian is one who has repented of being a slave to the carnal self to instead become a follower Christ Jesus: Romans 6 Dead to sin, alive in Christ. That is what Baptism represents: Romans 6:1-4

Therefore a true Christian is living a New Life as a slave to righteousness and will not continue in any sin, once they know what that sin is in his/her life. The Spirit causes you to know what God's will is. God gives you time to repent, but do not take God's kindness for weakness.

Romans 6:15-18 (NIV)
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law but under grace? By no means! 16 Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you have come to obey from your heart the pattern of teaching that has now claimed your allegiance. 18 You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.

1 John 3:7-12 (NIV)
7 Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. 8 The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. 9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. 10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister.

The sins I do are done because I chose to, a bad decision. I don't accidentally lie. I know when I do it I am trying to save face, embarrassed, avoiding conflict or punishment. i tr not to lie, but I still do it, and admit my sins to the person I lied to and to God.

setst RE:
If you chose to sin deliberately, but in shame and sorrow genuinely repent of your sin, then God will forgive you. If your faith is true, then as you continue your walk in Christ you will mature in the faith and become ever more fruitful.

1 John 2:1-6 (NIV)
2 My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. 2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
3 We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands. 4 Whoever says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person. 5 But if anyone obeys his word, love for God is truly made complete in them. This is how we know we are in him: 6 Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did.

What I think this "continue to sin" usually refers to is homosexuality in particular, and yet those who call it sin so often lie, or is it a lying "lifestyle"?

setst RE:
The New Testament clearly lists sins numerous times as an example warning that those who do such things will not inherit the Kingdom of God, but can expect instead God's wrath at the Judgement.

For instance,

Read these Passages and consider the instruction given to the Church regarding sin:

Revelation 21:7-8
Ephesians 5:1-7
1 Corinthians 6:7-14
Galatians 5:13-21
Romans 2

Living by the Spirit you fulfill the entire Law. . .

If you live out a life of love by the Spirit of God, then you will in fact fulfill the entire moral Law toward God and to your neighbor.

Living by the Spirit of God through faith is not about obeying all kinds of laws to get right with God, but is rather a whole new sanctified and holy life unto God - set free from sin's power to live out a new life of Love.

Galatians 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

And the proper worship of any one who claims faith in Christ must do likewise...

Romans 12:1 (NIV) Bolding mine… 1 Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God — this is your true and proper worship.

1 Thessalonians 2:11-12 (NIV)
11 For you know that we dealt with each of you as a father deals with his own children, 12 encouraging, comforting and urging you to live lives worthy of God, who calls you into his kingdom and glory.

Selfish ambition and Love can not coexist - you can only live for one or the other - God shares His glory with no one...

Romans 13:8-9 (WEB)
8 Owe no one anything, except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law.
9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and whatever other commandments there are, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love doesn’t harm a neighbor. Love therefore is the fulfillment of the law.

Galatians 5:14 (WEB)
14 For the Whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself."

Romans 8:3-4 (NIV)
3 For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Galatians 6:7-9 (NIV)
7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows.
8 Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction;
whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
9 Let US not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time WE will reap a harvest IF WE do not give up.

Regarding Sexual Sin:

Any sexual relation outside of marriage between a man and a woman is immoral according to God. The body of a Christian is now the Holy Temple of the Spirit of God. Therefore, sanctify your body and your life onto God.

Let no one deceive you. God's wrath is upon those who do such things, unless they repent.

Here is a Christian Pastor saying that if he had a button to kill gays, would push it until it broke. And had 10k subscribers following him. No rebuke. Just silence.

setst RE: This Christian Pastor is not mincing words, just as Holy Scripture does not mince words about this very thing. Those who do such things are under the wrath of God, unless they repent.

1 Peter 1:13-20 (NIV)
13 Therefore, with minds that are alert and fully sober, set your hope on the grace to be brought to you when Jesus Christ is revealed at his coming. 14 As obedient children, do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance. 15 But just as He who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; 16 for it is written: “Be holy, because I am holy.”

2 Timothy 2:19-21 (WEB)
19 Nevertheless, God’s solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription:

• “The Lord knows those who are his,” and,
• “Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord turns away from wickedness.”

As a New Creature in Christ by faith, YOU are responsible to:

• to put to death the misdeeds of the body to live: Romans 8:12-13
• offer ourselves as slaves to righteousness leading to holiness: Romans 6:18-19
• to live by and walk by the Spirit we receive so we won't fulfill the lusts of the flesh: Galatians 5:16
• to sow to the Spirit to reap eternal life: Galatians 6:8-9
• to live by the Spirit to fulfill the requirements of the whole law: Romans 8:3-4
• to take off the old self and to put on new self: Ephesians 4:24-25; Colossians 3:9-10
• to abstain from reaping to the flesh so we may enter the Kingdom of God: 1 Corinthians 6:7-10; Ephesians 5:1-6
• to live as slaves to God by which we reap holiness leading to eternal life: Romans 6:22 . .

What this means is, a Christian now lives for the purpose of living out a life of Love - to serve and help others. Any acts of the flesh (sinful nature) that feeds the flesh as your master is sin and leads to death.

Christians will not disobey the laws of the social context they reside - their country, state, city, town, village, or similar social structure of government - unless any law is against God's will.

Therefore, the Gospel that saves us teaches a faith by which we are to be disciples of Jesus to be saved - to deny self and follow Him. In this way, we fulfill all righteousness. . .

Your faith in Jesus must lead to obedience IF your faith is true to Christ Jesus...

Romans 1:5 (NIV)
5 Through him we received grace and apostleship to call all the Gentiles to the obedience that comes from faith for his name’s sake.

Romans 16:25-27 (NIV)
... 26 but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all the Gentiles might come to the obedience that comes from faith— 27 to the only wise God be glory forever through Jesus Christ! Amen.

Hebrews 5:8-10 (NIV)
8 Son though he was, he learned obedience from what he suffered 9 and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him

The Great Commission
Matthew 28:19-20 (NIV)
19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.

John 14:21 (NIV)
21 Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”

John 14:23 (NIV)
23 Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.

1 John 2:4 (NIV)
4 Whoever says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person.

Romans 6:22
22 But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life.

The Spirit is only received by obeying Christ Jesus (an obedient faith)...

Acts 5 (WEB) 32 We are His witnesses of these things; and so also is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him.

John 14:15-17 (NIV)
15 “If you love me, keep my commands. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth.

Yet, many will reject the command of God to follow the wisdom of the flesh...

Jude 1 (NIV) 4 For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny our only Sovereign and Lord, Jesus Christ.

Jesus is LORD of your life or He is not part of your life at all - Only ONE Master.

Unfortunately, untold millions of ‘Christians’ are being misled by a heresy that inadvertently encourages a dead faith and a license for sin - the end result being eternal death.

Blessings,
setst

 

[sweetycakes1]

Most Christian will say that you ask God to forgive your sins you repent of, and ask Jesus into your heart. That simple.

Or not. From what I've read here or have listened to what a street preacher says, even as a Christian, there seems to be a lot of fine print:
You repent of your sins. If you still sin, you are not saved, you haven't really repented. Hell. Next?
You ask forgiveness of sins you have done that week at church, or daily, but you didn't willingly sin. So, maybe you sinned against you will, or did it unknowingly. Maybe the devil made you do it. And that lie you told? Well, you are forgiven, so you're good, right?
You keep the commandments, no matter how arbitrary, like men and women not wearing the same garments (like pants.) Hell. Yes, visited a church where this was stressed that the had to correct The Last Supper, so that now, even Jesus look like he went to Great Clips.
Oops! You weren't baptized baby? Sorry. Hell. Sucks to be you. Next?
You are born again. If not..hell...next?
You prove your salvation in your works, or even a co-salvation. If not, goat. Hell.
You are saved through grace.
You are saved through faith, something you do.
A list of sins that disqualify you. Yeah, gossip and slander are in it, but the focus is on one.
You've blasphemed the HS. Sure, you might not even understand what that means, but, alas. Hell. Thanks for playing.

If you haven't met these qualification, to Hell you go.

God loves you, but will send you to Hell if you don't love him in return with the same "good riddance" attitude of the person making the claim. An eternal torture for not believing in his existence and obeying for a life of at max 100 years, or as short as a day.

Oh, and btw, you might lose your salvation. So nobody's safe. As one person stated, "God drowned the whole world except one family, so..you better watch out.

i appreciate a good discussion or debate, but when I really read through this, it is not "simple," so that you enter into Heaven becoming as a child. It sounds so complicated, with so many exceptions, how can Christians preach to others how one is saved and enter into a relationship with God, if no one even agrees on how that happens, so much so, to the point of damning the other to hell?

Salvation is as simple as Romans 10 9-10
Romans 10:9-10
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Yet, true saving faith is not alone... read below:

Faith alone saves a person, but the faith that saves is not alone. A faith that truly works will show the works of faith... holiness, obedience, service and submission to God and His will. Genuine belief in the truth will produce a genuine behavior of the truth.

James 2:17-18
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

Matthew 7:16-20
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.


Below copied from another thread...

Excerpt used for EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY: Chapter 9. Treasures From the Scriptures - Treasures from James. Dr. Mattoon

A Fatal Faith
James 2:14-26

If we are going to go to Heaven, then we must have faith. The question that arises though is, "Faith in what?" There are many different kinds of faith, many are fatal because the object of faith is wrong and has no power to save and cleanse from sin. James addresses this issue here. God wants us to be a people of faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Our faith is what pleases the Lord.

Hebrews 11:6—But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Faith is not believing in spite of the evidence, but obeying in spite of the consequences. Faith is confidence that God's Word is true and conviction that acting on that Word will bring His blessing. Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. We are to be a people of faith, and that faith is transformed into action. When God is working in your life, then you will be working and serving Him in some way. A faith that is not transformed into action indicates a dead or fatal faith as we will see.

I. AN IMPORTANT QUESTION—2:14
What does it profit if a man says he has faith and has not works, can faith save him? The answer to this question and the believer's responsibility to live for Christ will be seen in this passage. These verses form a strong attack against a dead, fatal faith, a faith without works. Before we are done, some of you who profess to be saved may realize that you are not.

James asks at the end of this verse, "Can faith save him?" The actual Greek rendering is "Can that faith or this kind of faith save him?" Beloved, not everything that is claimed to be faith is genuine. "Head knowledge" of Bible truths does not make a person a Christian. Saying I am a Christian does not make me one.

II. AN IDLE FAITH—2:15-17
When a person is saved, there is a change in the life of that person. Faith alone saves a person, but the faith that saves is not alone. A faith that truly works will show the works of faith... holiness, obedience, service and submission to God and His will. Genuine belief in the truth will produce a genuine behavior of the truth. When a person professes faith in Christ, but his life doesn't match what he is claiming, can that faith save him? The answer is "NO!" There is no profit in a man claiming to possess something which he actually does not have just as there is no benefit to telling someone "God bless ya!" when they are cold and starving. Some folks are all profession, emphasizing what they "say." Many of these folks will unfortunately die and spend eternity in Hell. They profess Christ, but they don't pray, read their Bible, go to church, or never tell anyone about Christ. They run around with the wrong crowd, live a wild, wicked lifestyle and have foul mouths. Do saved people act like this? No! Making a verbal profession in Christ will not save you if there is no genuine repentance and faith in Christ. This kind of faith is a fatal faith.

Matthew 7:21—[21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Faith without works is dead and works without faith is dead too.

You may ask, "But I thought if I believed on the Lord Jesus Christ I would be saved?" That's right!

Acts 16:31—And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

The keyword is "believe." There are two kinds of belief.

1. Intellectual belief—This kind of belief has no effect on your life.
2. Life-Changing belief—This kind of belief affects your behavior.

James condemns number one. He condemns profession without practice. This is the kind of belief that demons possess and is a fatal faith.