How do demons evangelise?

[Strong in Him]

How do demons evangelise?​

They don't. They have no Good News to spread.

If a well known pastor who preached the gospel of salvation was coming to town and someone who believed strongly in their message and in their ordaining by God decided to promote the venue where the pastor was going to preach, what indications might reveal whether they were doing so by the Spirit or by demonic influence?

There is no way a demon would prompt anyone to proclaim God, the Gospel and the cross.
They would not point anyone to Jesus; they are incapable of doing so. They would not want to advertise that a Gospel evangelist was going to be in town.

The essence of this test was put before a biblical character.

Which Biblical character?

What did he determine and why and what did he do in response to his determination?

No idea.
Who, and what, are you talking about?

 

[Johan2222]

What bothers me here about these posts is how much they evidence a lack of trust in people. This is the Christians-Only section; these are your brothers and sisters in Christ.

There are so many errors in your post that it would make for a very long response, so I am just going to deal with your judgment of the word of Christ as false;

Specifically;

Proverbs 11:15 KJV
He that is surety for a stranger shall smart for it: and he that hateth suretiship is sure.

Matthew 7:20-21 KJV
Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. [21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 12:50 KJV
For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Can you not see that words do not always reveal those who are of God?

Have you not read;

1 Timothy 5:24-25 KJV
Some men's sins are open beforehand, going before to judgment; and some men they follow after. [25] Likewise also the good works of some are manifest beforehand; and they that are otherwise cannot be hid.

Not putting your trust in men before you see their fruits is prudent and the word cautions us to do so in many places.

Not trusting God who reveals the truth of these things is what you advocate, saying that I should blindly assume everybody on this forum is my Christian brother or sister, but clearly from scripture that is false doctrine.

Can you truly not see that by maintaining such a position, you judge the Word of God as wrong and judge me in error for abiding in it?

If you are prepared to accept the error I have outlined above and repent for it, we can proceed, but if not, Matthew 18 and Titus 3 detail the next steps if the truth is rejected.

Sorry for any offence.

 

[Johan2222]

There is no way a demon would prompt anyone to proclaim God, the Gospel and the cross.
They would not point anyone to Jesus; they are incapable of doing so. They would not want to advertise that a Gospel evangelist was going to be in town.

Which Biblical character?

No idea.
Who, and what, are you talking about?

Before I answer those questions tell me what significance you see in John 6.66

 

[Strong in Him]

Before I answer those questions tell me what significance you see in John 6.66

Jesus had told the crowd that he was the bread of life and that those who ate his flesh and drank his blood would have eternal life.
This was too hard for some to accept, so they left.

 

[Johan2222]

Jesus had told the crowd that he was the bread of life and that those who ate his flesh and drank his blood would have eternal life.
This was too hard for some to accept, so they left.

You put me in a difficult situation.

I don’t wish to offend you, but please try to consider my position.

You said;

“There is no way a demon would prompt anyone to proclaim God, the Gospel and the cross.
They would not point anyone to Jesus; they are incapable of doing so. They would not want to advertise that a Gospel evangelist was going to be in town.”

You are pretty confident of your claims, but in truth you are wrong, as the scriptures also reveal.

If I am right in saying so, what is my duty of care towards you, seeing you are adamant you are right when you are wrong?

Would that be the mark of a proud man or a humble man?

Will a proud man receive correction if corrected?

I asked you what you found significant in John 6.66 and yet all you did was lay out the basic bare facts, that even a child can see, and revealed nothing of any significance at all.

Was it because you did not read my question with enough discernment to see what I asked or because you did not understand it or because you didn’t have an answer so you just decided to fluff?

Please don’t be offended. I am not asking these things to try and offend you but to try and open your eyes to a better examination of yourself, something we all need. Iron sharpens iron but wood, straw, hay and stubble is cut by iron.

Do you want to be sharpened or will you judge me as having cut you?

Remember that you will not love anyone who tries to raise you up in love.

2 Corinthians 12:15 KJV
And I will very gladly spend and be spent for you; though the more abundantly I love you, the less I be loved.

 

[Strong in Him]

You put me in a difficult situation.

Why? Because you disagree with me?
It's ok, I can cope with that.

I don’t wish to offend you, but please try to consider my position.

I've no idea what your position is, that's what I was asking.

You said;

“There is no way a demon would prompt anyone to proclaim God, the Gospel and the cross.
They would not point anyone to Jesus; they are incapable of doing so. They would not want to advertise that a Gospel evangelist was going to be in town.”

I did - and it's true.

You are pretty confident of your claims, but in truth you are wrong, as the scriptures also reveal.

The Scriptures reveal that the devil preaches the Good News about Jesus??
What Bible are you reading?

Jesus drove out demons, Mark 1:32, Luke 4:33-36, Luke 9:37-42.
He sent his disciples out to drive out demons, Matthew 10:1, Luke 9:1.
He taught us to pray "deliver us from the evil one", Matthew 6:13.
He resisted the devil in the wilderness, Luke 4:1-13.
He told his disciples that he saw Satan falling from heaven, Luke 10:18. Satan - Lucifer - was thrown out of heaven for rebelling against God and trying to overthrow him
Paul told us to put on the armour of God so that we could stand against the devil's schemes, Ephesians 6:11.
He said that Jesus is the head of EVERY authority, Colossians 2:10, and that he triumphed over the powers and authorities on the cross, Colossians 2:15.

If I am right in saying so, what is my duty of care towards you,

I don't believe you are right, and you don't have a duty of care towards me. This is a forum and we are having a discussion.
You sound kind and I'm sure you mean well, but I don't need pastoral care because someone disagrees with me.

seeing you are adamant you are right when you are wrong?

It's your opinion that I am wrong.
I said:

There is no way a demon would prompt anyone to proclaim God, the Gospel and the cross.
They would not point anyone to Jesus; they are incapable of doing so.

If you think I am wrong about that, then you need to show - from Scripture - where the devil ever preached the Gospel and told people that God loves them and Jesus came to die for them.
Christian teaching says that the devil was defeated on the cross. Why would the devil teach people that he was defeated by Jesus, and will one day be thrown into the lake of fire, Revelation 21:10?

Would that be the mark of a proud man or a humble man?

If you were saying, "I am right and you are wrong" and boasting about it, you would be proud, yes.

Will a proud man receive correction if corrected?

Maybe not - I am not a man and you haven't corrected me.

I asked you what you found significant in John 6.66 and yet all you did was lay out the basic bare facts, that even a child can see, and revealed nothing of any significance at all.

I was telling you what John 6:66 - one verse - said. I can explain the whole chapter if you want me to.
I don't know why you asked me about it, since it doesn't have any relevance to what I said before. And please don't tell me that it is 666 and has something to do with the mark of the beast. There were no chapter and verse divisions in John's original, Greek manuscript; these were added much later.

Was it because you did not read my question with enough discernment to see what I asked or because you did not understand it or because you didn’t have an answer so you just decided to fluff?

I said, in my first post, that I didn't understand what you were talking about; I also asked you some questions.
Instead of explaining and answering my questions, you asked me about a random verse, told me I was wrong, about that and everything else, and can't give me a straight answer.

I wrote an answer to your first post; you said I am wrong.
So can you address my questions, show me where I am wrong, stop going off at a tangent and then telling me I am wrong about that as well.

Please don’t be offended. I am not asking these things to try and offend you

I'm not offended, I'm puzzled.
And believe me, it's not me you are offending by saying that the devil preaches the Good News about Jesus.

Do you want to be sharpened or will you judge me as having cut you?

IF you can explain what you mean by your first post and show me where I am wrong about the devil preaching the Gospel, I'll look up the references and admit that I may have been wrong.
So far, you've just asked me another question and spent time telling me just how wrong I am.
I don't believe I am wrong. I read the Bible and know what it teaches. And it does not say that the devil preaches about Jesus and wants to draw people to God. Peter told us to resist the devil.

Remember that you will not love anyone who tries to raise you up in love.

?? You have no idea who I love, will love or can love.

 

[Johan2222]

Why? Because you disagree with me?
It's ok, I can cope with that.

Hopefully so, seeing I have a duty to show you fault once again, even on many things, and if you are able to receive the most obvious of them, you may convince me you are ready for others.

and you don't have a duty of care towards me.

Therefore, may I ask you to reconsider whether you are truly the judge of what my duties are towards my fellow man.

Is that not between me and God?

Can you not see that God is the judge of my conscience?

If you feel that you do not have a duty of care towards every other person on earth, especially those who God personally puts in your life to one degree or another, I am not going to try and persuade you of what God has not persuaded you of.

As for me, however, my neighbours are everyone living, and you will not be the judge of what my duties should be towards my neighbours.

 

[Strong in Him]

Hopefully so, seeing I have a duty to show you fault once again,

No, you don't have a duty to show me anything.
I asked you a) to explain your OP and what you are talking about and b) to show me how, and why, I am wrong.

Therefore, may I ask you to reconsider whether you are truly the judge of what my duties are towards my fellow man.

Is that not between me and God?

Not if you're saying that you are our teacher, Minister, or spiritual parent, need to correct us and have a duty to care for us.
No, you don't. This is a debate on a forum. You don't know who any of us are, granted you seem to be in the same country as me but even so, we're hundreds of miles away. We could leave this forum and you would not have contact with us again.

Furthermore, all you have done, in answer to my questions and Scriptures, is to let me know that I am wrong.
You don't seem able to tell me how.

As for me, however, my neighbours are everyone living, and you will not be the judge of what my duties should be towards my neighbours.

I'm not judging anyone.
And if you feel you have a duty towards me, answer my questions, address the Scriptures I gave you and tell me why, in your opinion, I am wrong.

 

[Johan2222]

No, you don't have a duty to show me anything.

Regardless of your judgement, God is the judge of my duties, not you. Luke 17.3 ASV

Not if you're saying that you are our teacher, Minister, or spiritual parent, need to correct us and have a duty to care for us.

Those are your accusations and your deceitful words, which I never laid claim to. Go ahead, please copy and paste those things from any of my posts to prove me wrong.

The good Samaritan was not the teacher or the minister or the spiritual parent of the injured man on the road. A duty of care comes in many ways and they are all defined by God, not you.

If you are going to lie about what I have said, even on a platform where the evidence is openly available to every man, what does that say about you?

Sometimes duty involves turning tables over Matthew 21.12 or walking away in silence Proverbs 14.7 or keeping pearls concealed Matthew 7.6 or rebuking 1 Timothy 5.20.

You demand wisdom, even while employing falsehood and deception, but if you are full of upbraiding, will you be given what you demand?

Have you not read;

James 1:5 KJV
If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

Does a wise parent give into their child’s demands when they stamp their feet and pout and accuse their parent of error?

If there is something you want to know, why don’t you ask God? Has he not promised to give grace to the humble?

If a man is easy to entreat and repentant and filled with meekness of wisdom, will a wise man not sharpen him as iron, as God has instructed him?

If, however he is a proud judgmental deceiver, who refuses to be corrected, how will that alter his approach?

Furthermore, all you have done, in answer to my questions and Scriptures, is to let me know that I am wrong.

That is correct. On that, you have spoken truly.

You don't seem able to tell me how.

Being able is one thing, being constrained to obedience is another. Proverbs 14.7. Matthew 7.6 Proverbs 5.2

Even Christ declined to enlighten some people until they confessed certain things. Matthew 15.25.

My duties are not to bow and scrape to every whim and demand of everyone who has decided that my duties are to bow and scrape to their every whim and demand.

God is the father of us all, and even he will not bow to our unentitled demands. Are we not commanded to walk as God walked?

 

[Strong in Him]

Regardless of your judgement, God is the judge of my duties, not you. Luke 17.3 ASV

I haven't judged you.

Those are your accusations and your deceitful words,

No, I said, "not IF you're saying ......"
I wasn't sure what you were saying, and I couldn't think of any reason why a completely unknown person believed they had a duty of care towards me. Unless you believed that as you started the thread, you had/needed to teach anyone who replied.

That's the second time I've said, "I don't understand what you are saying", and the second time I've received criticism instead of explanation.

If you are going to lie about what I have said, even on a platform where the evidence is openly available to every man, what does that say about you?

I'm not lying; I said, "not IF you are saying ....." .
If that had been an accusation I would have said, you ARE claiming to be a teacher." I didn't say that.

You demand wisdom, even while employing falsehood and deception, but if you are full of upbraiding, will you be given what you demand?

I was not demanding anything; I was asking you to explain your own thread, and to answer the questions I asked.
If that's too difficult or too much trouble for you - so be it.
But you can't keep telling me how wrong I am when you can't be bothered to explain how and why I am wrong.

If there is something you want to know, why don’t you ask God? Has he not promised to give grace to the humble?

God didn't write this thread, you did.

My duties are not to bow and scrape to every whim and demand of everyone who has decided that my duties are to bow and scrape to their every whim and demand.

Ok, so you write a thread.
I disagree with you, and don't understand something that you say, so I ask a question.
Instead of giving me an answer, you then ask me what another Scripture is about.
I tell you, and ask, again, for an answer.
You tell me I am wrong (again) and start talking about a "duty of care".
I responded to that.
I have still had no answer to the questions I asked you on the thread that you wrote. I would have thought it a common courtesy that if you write something, someone takes the trouble to answer and says that they do not understand something, that you would explain it to them. Most people would want to explain their point of view.
All I've heard from you is .."you're wrong", "you're lying", "you're using deceitful words." And now you reply saying that I am demanding answers.

If you don't want to explain so that I understand you, forget it. If that is your idea of care, forget it.
I'm leaving this pointless thread.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

If a well known pastor who preached the gospel of salvation was coming to town and someone who believed strongly in their message and in their ordaining by God decided to promote the venue where the pastor was going to preach, what indications might reveal whether they were doing so by the Spirit or by demonic influence?

Please quote scriptures that support your answer.

EDIT; OK some more information as nobody has yet picked up on the cues;

The essence of this test was put before a biblical character.

What did he determine and why and what did he do in response to his determination?

I don't answer test questions that require mind reading.

 

[Johan2222]

I don't answer test questions that require mind reading.

On that, we are in agreement.

If however, I encountered one being posed among the number by a member, I would probably go a step further and try to correct the fault, initially in a spirit of gentleness, according to the commandments regarding the purging of error in the body and then make any further decisions based upon the receipt or otherwise of my council.

Nevertheless before doing any of that, I would examine myself, particularly my own discernment and wisdom and ask any appropriate questions that might uncover the possibility of my own blindness.

After all, it is a proud man who thinks he sees all things and even a fool who holds his peace is counted as wise.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

On that, we are in agreement.

If however, I encountered one being posed among the number by a member, I would probably go a step further and try to correct the fault, initially in a spirit of gentleness, according to the commandments regarding the purging of error in the body and then make any further decisions based upon the receipt or otherwise of my council.

Nevertheless before doing any of that, I would examine myself, particularly my own discernment and wisdom and ask any appropriate questions that might uncover the possibility of my own blindness.

After all, it is a proud man who thinks he sees all things and even a fool who holds his peace is counted as wise.

You can cease with the gaslighting and high-sounding language, Johan.

The proper answer here to what I said in the previous post is, "My apologies, 2PhiloVoid. I shouldn't have played games with folks here and simply asked if any of them agree with me about what [specifically named person from the Bible] wrote in the Bible."

 

[Johan2222]

You can cease with the gaslighting and high-sounding language, Johan.

The proper answer here to what I said in the previous post is, "My apologies, 2PhiloVoid. I shouldn't have played games with folks here and simply asked if any of them agree with me about what [specifically named person from the Bible] wrote in the Bible."

Well we all have our own conscience and if that’s what you believe I’m not going to judge you for it. In the days however when the love of many is as it is and the three measures of meal are all leavened even babes will understand the location of the sty

If I see the imperative of the twenty third of the first of James’ brother requiring the cunning of the wisest serpents and you don’t approve of my assessment you are entitled to your own opinion.

Whether that is a valid viewpoint or how I respond to it is a matter between me and God and if that is an offence to you, I am sorry but you are not the judge of my conscience.

I have substantiated my views in all of my posts with scripture and if you disagree with any of them deal with them directly, but if you want to use a large brush to paint over your offence with broad strokes without any specifics, how should I respond.

Many today would describe Christ’s behaviour towards the woman who spoke of the crumbs from the table feeding the dogs as gaslighting.

Many who I have spoken to who have read the new Testament and rejected it have described him as arrogant and a Gaslighter of the highest degree.

Many would claim that proverbs 14.7 was a call to gaslighting.

There are many things to consider here in the open among those who are within and without. Casting pearls, faithful stewardship, bringing fourth treasure from what is new and old, and all before the multitudes, for we cannot assume that we are heard by those only within in this place.

Have you ever been on a farm and seen what happens to pigs when you feed them meat?

Your conscience is your own and mine likewise and if you wish to accuse me of sin, tell me my sin plainly and if what you tell me is valid, you will find me easy to entreat and willing to repent for it.

If however you want to tell me that you don’t like the way I speak or you think I should conform to the ways of the masses and babble everything I know or tell everybody what they want to hear, you may as well save your breath.

No offence intended and sorry that I cannot agree with you.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Well we all have our own conscience and if that’s what you believe I’m not going to judge you for it. In the days however when the love of many is as it is and the three measures of meal are all leavened even babes will understand the location of the sty

If I see the imperative of the twenty third of the first of James’ brother requiring the cunning of the wisest serpents and you don’t approve of my assessment you are entitled to your own opinion.

Whether that is a valid viewpoint or how I respond to it is a matter between me and God and if that is an offence to you, I am sorry but you are not the judge of my conscience.

I have substantiated my views in all of my posts with scripture and if you disagree with any of them deal with them directly, but if you want to use a large brush to paint over your offence with broad strokes without any specifics, how should I respond.

Many today would describe Christ’s behaviour towards the woman who spoke of the crumbs from the table feeding the dogs as gaslighting.

Many who I have spoken to who have read the new Testament and rejected it have described him as arrogant and a Gaslighter of the highest degree.

Many would claim that proverbs 14.7 was a call to gaslighting.

There are many things to consider here in the open among those who are within and without. Casting pearls, faithful stewardship, bringing fourth treasure from what is new and old, and all before the multitudes, for we cannot assume that we are heard by those only within in this place.

Have you ever been on a farm and seen what happens to pigs when you feed them meat?

Your conscience is your own and mine likewise and if you wish to accuse me of sin, tell me my sin plainly and if what you tell me is valid, you will find me easy to entreat and willing to repent for it.

If however you want to tell me that you don’t like the way I speak or you think I should babble everything I know or tell everybody what they want to hear, you may as well save your breath.

No offence intended and sorry that I cannot agree with you.

We'll just have to agree to disagree then. Have a great day.

 

[Johan2222]

I haven't judged you.

No, I said, "not IF you're saying ......"
I wasn't sure what you were saying, and I couldn't think of any reason why a completely unknown person believed they had a duty of care towards me. Unless you believed that as you started the thread, you had/needed to teach anyone who replied.

That's the second time I've said, "I don't understand what you are saying", and the second time I've received criticism instead of explanation.

I'm not lying; I said, "not IF you are saying ....." .
If that had been an accusation I would have said, you ARE claiming to be a teacher." I didn't say that.

I was not demanding anything; I was asking you to explain your own thread, and to answer the questions I asked.
If that's too difficult or too much trouble for you - so be it.
But you can't keep telling me how wrong I am when you can't be bothered to explain how and why I am wrong.

God didn't write this thread, you did.

Ok, so you write a thread.
I disagree with you, and don't understand something that you say, so I ask a question.
Instead of giving me an answer, you then ask me what another Scripture is about.
I tell you, and ask, again, for an answer.
You tell me I am wrong (again) and start talking about a "duty of care".
I responded to that.
I have still had no answer to the questions I asked you on the thread that you wrote. I would have thought it a common courtesy that if you write something, someone takes the trouble to answer and says that they do not understand something, that you would explain it to them. Most people would want to explain their point of view.
All I've heard from you is .."you're wrong", "you're lying", "you're using deceitful words." And now you reply saying that I am demanding answers.

If you don't want to explain so that I understand you, forget it. If that is your idea of care, forget it.
I'm leaving this pointless thread.

Proverbs 27.22 KJV

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

Proverbs 27.22 KJV

Many years ago I used to read the proverbs and think to myself, I am the wise man and not the fool, because I'm a believer

One day I read, even as many times prior, that man shall live by every Word of God. Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4, Deut. 8:3. But for some reason unexplained, on that day I understood that ALL HIS WORDS apply to me and everyone else.

After that I took every Word to myself, understanding that I was also the fool in question, and I remain that way because He Said So.

Jesus said that where the Word is sown, Satan enters the heart to steal that Word. Every time I read it, Mark 4:15, thousands of times, I thought to myself, "This doesn't and can not apply to ME because "I" am a believer. But as above, on a certain day for some unexplained reason, I actually believed Jesus and what He said was true, and it really does apply to me and still does apply to me. And all the other times I read, I was stolen from. What does that say about ME? Fool that I am.

I understand that when I or any other person speaks, it's not always just them speaking. Just because it's true and observable, if we're listening and paying attention to Jesus.

It really is a good warning for everyone. When I witness, I know that there is a blocker that is not the person, but that person's CAPTOR, to get around first, in order to grab hold of the child of God. It works the same way here.

 

[Johan2222]

Many years ago I used to read the proverbs and think to myself, I am the wise man and not the fool, because I'm a believer

I agree with so much of what you say, so many warnings revealing so much, thank you for spending your time writing this long thought out post and for giving me a window into your heart.

Although I obviously didn’t view it that way at the time, by remarkable fortune I spent the first 16 years of my life being raised by unbelieving parents (in a secular country) who constantly revealed my foolishness to me with a rod, and only that if I was lucky.

Being a culture where the rod was considered the finest teacher in the land, how can I not now be grateful that I was the focus of his wrath, holding the school record for lessons under his supervision, and yet I still marvel that with all of that foolishness having been driven out of me, I am still so full of it.

I think the skin on my derrière was probably almost thicker than the skin on my feet by the time I was 16 and considering I walked barefoot up until that time that is saying something.

All I can say is thank God for the peaceful fruit of righteousness that came by those years but I am certainly glad that I don’t have to live my life again.

Considering my very likely imminent death to be far preferable to continued life at home, I escaped my captivity at 16 (my earliest legal opportunity) to join one of the most disciplined and austere fighting forces on Earth, waging a brutal war in Africa, and to my great dismay and seemingly unending suffering, for twenty years the instruction and regimen only served to magnify the painful lessons of my formative years.

Fortunately, hating my life as I did, I excelled as a soldier, having no fear of death, and although I ever pressed myself to the forefront of the action I never seemed to be able to accomplish the escape that earnestly sought by a valiant death.

Nevertheless, my efforts were rewarded in measure far beyond my wildest dreams and I found myself rising to the top of the tree in a way that I never could have imagined and the higher up I rose the more worried I became that my peers and my commanders would one day see me for the wretched worthless fool that I was, but that day never came and 20 years later I left the force, having managed to con everybody into believing that I was an honourable righteous courageous man of great wisdom and fortitude and the knowledge of the reality of my evil selfish heart only added to the measure of the guilt for my wretchedness.

Having never got to a point in life where I found anything but foolishness in my heart, I cannot really identify with the wisdom you saw in your own and although I wish in truth I could claim otherwise, I would be lying if I told you that the actions of my life have ever revealed any wisdom at all.

When I therefore see someone (claiming to be of the number) acting the fool, trying to employ cunning deception in a desperation to deny obvious fault to justify themselves before men, I thank God for my great blessing in being able to freely acknowledge my own abundant wretchedness, knowing also that I truly am a bigger fool than they will ever be.

Knowing that I am instructed to convey those blessings to others where I can (Matthew 18.15. Luke 17.3) I ever strive to do so in wisdom, but never seem to be able to attain to that calling even in the measure of a worm or a flea on a dead dog.

One day I read, even as many times prior, that man shall live by every Word of God. Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4, Deut. 8:3. But for some reason unexplained, on that day I understood that ALL HIS WORDS apply to me and everyone else.

After that I took every Word to myself, understanding that I was also the fool in question, and I remain that way because He Said So.

After leaving the army at 37 years old and then ending up an undocumented refugee for 20 years, often jobless and homeless in a foreign land, far from my homeland, I thought my life would be a journey of endless folly and great sorrow all the way to my death but God saved me out of all of it.

At the age of nearly 40, still an unbeliever, knowing nothing about the Word or Christ or God, except as swear words, I got to know a man who assured me that the Bible was the word of God and I felt desperately sorry for him that he had given his life over to an unprovable delusion and I earnestly wanted to save him from his awful boring miserable life, which seemed even worse than my own.

I decided to read the Bible, believing that I would find all sorts of nonsense and flaws in it and would be able to prove to him that it was not the word of God and thereby save him from his terrible and mind numbingly mundane existence.

I started in the book of Matthew and by verse 11 of chapter 1, at the carrying away to Babylon, I believed that I was reading a history book and I marvelled at it because it was not what I expected at all.

Before the end of chapter 5, I believed that Christ was the son of God, who was crucified for the sins of the world and I immediately received the manifestation John 14.21 and the sure mercies of David, having never received the preaching of men or knowing anything about the Bible or God or the church at all.

Although I did not obtain papers for another two decades after that, such things immediately became an utter irrelevance to me as I began to rejoice in the knowledge of why God had allowed me to understand my foolishness for so long.

Having read the book now about 15 times and knowing that I have been brayed for nearly 70 years with a pestle in a mortar among the wheat, I wish that I could say that I was no longer the abject fool that I have always been, but that would be a lie.

Nevertheless at least I can now rejoice in the knowledge of its cause and knowing that the end of a matter is greater than its beginning.

Romans 7:24 KJV
O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

Jesus said that where the Word is sown, Satan enters the heart to steal that Word. Every time I read it, Mark 4:15, thousands of times, I thought to myself, "This doesn't and can not apply to ME because "I" am a believer. But as above, on a certain day for some unexplained reason, I actually believed Jesus and what He said was true, and it really does apply to me and still does apply to me. And all the other times I read, I was stolen from. What does that say about ME? Fool that I am.

I understand that when I or any other person speaks, it's not always just them speaking. Just because it's true and observable, if we're listening and paying attention to Jesus.

It really is a good warning for everyone. When I witness, I know that there is a blocker that is not the person, but that person's CAPTOR, to get around first, in order to grab hold of the child of God. It works the same way here.

I certainly know you are right about the warnings, but I would go even go further and say we must be ever mindful not to walk away from the mirror and forget what manner of men we were, for the proud who become puffed up by knowledge, walk away and forget that wisdom (in obedience) only comes by suffering (Hebrews 5.8) and legitimacy only comes by chastening (Hebrews 12.8)

Whenever I find vipers hatching eggs in the temple, denying their deeds in deception, I know that I will receive many objections in turning their tables over, but I know that the shepherds will stand with me, ever cautious not to tempt the weak to return to house from whence they came out and knowing the fear that shall be sown at the rebuke of the wicked is as rare as fine gold in the days when the love of many has grown cold.

Nevertheless, I am not ignorant of the consequences.

2 Corinthians 12:15 KJV
. . . the more abundantly I love you, the less I be loved.

And so I thank God that I know I am a fool for Christ’s sake and that my praise is of God and my eye on the prize and that Jude 1.23 is ever on my mind, especially knowing the day that is at hand.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

I agree with so much of what you say, so many warnings revealing so much, thank you for spending your time writing this long thought out post and for giving me a window into your heart.

Although I obviously didn’t view it that way at the time, by remarkable fortune I spent the first 16 years of my life being raised by unbelieving parents (in a secular country) who constantly revealed my foolishness to me with a rod, and only that if I was lucky.

Being a culture where the rod was considered the finest teacher in the land, how can I not now be grateful that I was the focus of his wrath, holding the school record for lessons under his supervision, and yet I still marvel that with all of that foolishness having been driven out of me, I am still so full of it.

I think the skin on my derrière was probably almost thicker than the skin on my feet by the time I was 16 and considering I walked barefoot up until that time that is saying something.

All I can say is thank God for the peaceful fruit of righteousness that came by those years but I am certainly glad that I don’t have to live my life again.

Considering my very likely imminent death to be far preferable to continued life at home, I escaped my captivity at 16 (my earliest legal opportunity) to join one of the most disciplined and austere fighting forces on Earth, waging a brutal war in Africa, and to my great dismay and seemingly unending suffering, for twenty years the instruction and regimen only served to magnify the painful lessons of my formative years.

Fortunately, hating my life as I did, I excelled as a soldier, having no fear of death, and although I ever pressed myself to the forefront of the action I never seemed to be able to accomplish the escape that earnestly sought by a valiant death.

Nevertheless, my efforts were rewarded in measure far beyond my wildest dreams and I found myself rising to the top of the tree in a way that I never could have imagined and the higher up I rose the more worried I became that my peers and my commanders would one day see me for the wretched worthless fool that I was, but that day never came and 20 years later I left the force, having managed to con everybody into believing that I was an honourable righteous courageous man of great wisdom and fortitude and the knowledge of the reality of my evil selfish heart only added to the measure of the guilt for my wretchedness.

Having never got to a point in life where I found anything but foolishness in my heart, I cannot really identify with the wisdom you saw in your own and although I wish in truth I could claim otherwise, I would be lying if I told you that the actions of my life have ever revealed any wisdom at all.

When I therefore see someone (claiming to be of the number) acting the fool, trying to employ cunning deception in a desperation to deny obvious fault to justify themselves before men, I thank God for my great blessing in being able to freely acknowledge my own abundant wretchedness, knowing also that I truly am a bigger fool than they will ever be.

Knowing that I am instructed to convey those blessings to others where I can (Matthew 18.15. Luke 17.3) I ever strive to do so in wisdom, but never seem to be able to attain to that calling even in the measure of a worm or a flea on a dead dog.

After leaving the army at 37 years old and then ending up an undocumented refugee for 20 years, often jobless and homeless in a foreign land, far from my homeland, I thought my life would be a journey of endless folly and great sorrow all the way to my death but God saved me out of all of it.

At the age of nearly 40, still an unbeliever, knowing nothing about the Word or Christ or God, except as swear words, I got to know a man who assured me that the Bible was the word of God and I felt desperately sorry for him that he had given his life over to an unprovable delusion and I earnestly wanted to save him from his awful boring miserable life, which seemed even worse than my own.

I decided to read the Bible, believing that I would find all sorts of nonsense and flaws in it and would be able to prove to him that it was not the word of God and thereby save him from his terrible and mind numbingly mundane existence.

I started in the book of Matthew and by verse 11 of chapter 1, at the carrying away to Babylon, I believed that I was reading a history book and I marvelled at it because it was not what I expected at all.

Before the end of chapter 5, I believed that Christ was the son of God, who was crucified for the sins of the world and I immediately received the manifestation John 14.21 and the sure mercies of David, having never received the preaching of men or knowing anything about the Bible or God or the church at all.

Although I did not obtain papers for another two decades after that, such things immediately became an utter irrelevance to me as I began to rejoice in the knowledge of why God had allowed me to understand my foolishness for so long.

Having read the book now about 15 times and knowing that I have been brayed for nearly 70 years with a pestle in a mortar among the wheat, I wish that I could say that I was no longer the abject fool that I have always been, but that would be a lie.

Nevertheless at least I can now rejoice in the knowledge of its cause and knowing that the end of a matter is greater than its beginning.

Romans 7:24 KJV
O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

I certainly know you are right about the warnings, but I would go even go further and say we must be ever mindful not to walk away from the mirror and forget what manner of men we were, for the proud who become puffed up by knowledge, walk away and forget that wisdom (in obedience) only comes by suffering (Hebrews 5.8) and legitimacy only comes by chastening (Hebrews 12.8)

Whenever I find vipers hatching eggs in the temple, denying their deeds in deception, I know that I will receive many objections in turning their tables over, but I know that the shepherds will stand with me, ever cautious not to tempt the weak to return to house from whence they came out and knowing the fear that shall be sown at the rebuke of the wicked is as rare as fine gold in the days when the love of many has grown cold.

Nevertheless, I am not ignorant of the consequences.

2 Corinthians 12:15 KJV
. . . the more abundantly I love you, the less I be loved.

And so I thank God that I know I am a fool for Christ’s sake and that my praise is of God and my eye on the prize and that Jude 1.23 is ever on my mind, especially knowing the day that is at hand.

Thanks for sharing

My general point is that we all proclaim the Gospel from a partly cloudy view

Paul was good with however it was done

 

[Jeff Saunders]

If a well known pastor who preached the gospel of salvation was coming to town and someone who believed strongly in their message and in their ordaining by God decided to promote the venue where the pastor was going to preach, what indications might reveal whether they were doing so by the Spirit or by demonic influence?

Please quote scriptures that support your answer.

EDIT; OK some more information as nobody has yet picked up on the cues;

The essence of this test was put before a biblical character.

What did he determine and why and what did he do in response to his determination?

It all depends on what “gospel “ is being preached. What some call the “gospel” is not a true characteristic of what God has done and degrades God character and nature. If that is what is preached then yes demonic forces would be happy to promote that. But if it’s the true gospel of Jesus and what he did , then no the demonic forces would not promote that.