How do Christians reconcile the failure of prophesies

[lismore]

I'm more interested to know how those who believe prophesies, reconcile their faith in both their religion and their preacher, when the prophesy does not come to pass.

Imho when a prophecy does not come to pass it is the Lord's way of revealing this person to be a wolf, not sent by him, someone to be marked and avoided.

And the Lord said “The prophets are prophesying lies in my name; I did not send them, nor did I command them or speak to them. They are prophesying to you a lying vision, worthless divination, and the deceit of their own minds" (Jeremiah 14:14).

Every word of God is flawless, truth. God Bless

 

[Tuur]

From the linked NYT article -- quoting a socialist from an Evangelical University--
[I agree with this...]

As denominational Christianity declines almost across the board, magnetic independent leaders have stepped into the void. “There’s this idea that you can’t trust anybody except these trusted individuals,” said Brad Christerson, a sociologist at evangelical Biola University. “It’s a symptom of our time. People don’t trust institutions, and people think that all mainstream institutions are corrupt: universities, science, government, the media. They’re searching for real sources of truth.”

The result is that many congregations are awash in misinformation. Almost half of Protestant pastors frequently hear members of their congregations repeating conspiracy theories about current events, according to a survey released last month by Lifeway Research, which is affiliated with the Southern Baptist Convention.

It doesn't necessarily follow that those who are leaving churches are going to other churches. It's possible, but not a given. You can also find these types of ministers in denominations. I've seen some in the pulpit of Baptist churches, maybe due to the loose coalition framework rather than a denomination with a top-down hierarchy that assigns ministers.

Oh, Lifeway Research proved to be an interesting rabbit hole to go down. I found the survey in question in January, 2021. Two flaws stood out:

1. It didn't address the question of whether this occurred at the same rate in the local communities. You can hear all sorts of things between members in churches (especially if a call for those to add to a prayer list turns into a gossip session), just as you can in secular hang-outs. The question is if it's greater or less than in the general public.

2. It's based on what pastors have heard rather than what the members of the congregation have heard. Some may be less likely to discuss off-the-wall stuff with their pastors than they would in other congregations.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Sometimes they create whole new kinds of Christianity.

I forget which ones come from the Millerites. A failed end-of-the-world prophecy followed by a couple re-adjustments really filtered out those who weren't willing to tolerate a false prophesy or two. It selected those willing to accept the claims of the leaders without question no matter how wrong they were.

 

[Sheila Davis]

There are no true prophets nor has it been since the disciples. But they will come again Acts 2:17 and that hasn't happened yet.

The people walking around trying to be prophets are fake.

Prophecies written in the Bible are the ones that matter

 

[Desk trauma]

Sometimes they create whole new kinds of Christianity.

I forget which ones come from the Millerites.

Adventists.

 

[Lost Witness]

There are no true prophets nor has it been since the disciples. But they will come again Acts 2:17 and that hasn't happened yet.

The people walking around trying to be prophets are fake.

Prophecies written in the Bible are the ones that matter

the ones that are written in the Bible are true, Indeed
However the LORD does still have prophets.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Adventists.

Well, that explains the whole different thread I spent way too much time on...

 

[Nithavela]

I think the proper way of treating failed prophecies is to remix them into a fire track.

 

[Mike from NJ]

There's a meta-study (a comparison of multiple studies) that does an excellent job of addressing this very topic. It's called "When Prophecy Fails and Faith Persists: A Theoretical Overview" by Lorne L. Dawson. It can be read in its entirety for free here. Note that there was an earlier study by someone else called simply "When Prophecy Fails", and this was a follow-up as it was felt the original study was not as systematic in studying the matter as they would have liked.

In the study, they mention three adaptational strategies often employed to recovered from failed prophecy: proselytization, rationalization, and reaffirmation. Proselytization is what you would expect, by bringing it new members it helps assuage doubts of existing members. The study splits rationalization into four sub-categories. The first is spiritualization, where "The prophesied event is reinterpreted in such a way that what was supposed to have been a visible, verifiable occurrence is seen to have been in reality an invisible, spiritual occurrence. The event occurred as predicted, only on a spiritual level." The second is a test of faith, that because of the belief of those who heard the prophecy God caused the prophecy not to come true. The third is human error is the inverse of the second, where those who heard the prophecy were not strong enough in their belief, God caused the prophecy to fail. This can also be where specific members within a group can be cited as the culprit(s) with causing that failure. The fourth subcategory is blaming others (whether it be other natural or supernatural forces outside the group), though it's noted in the study this is rare. Then the third and final adaptational strategy is called reaffirmation, where "movements turn inward and 'engage in processes of group building.'” This can be things like reorganization, shifting leadership or goals, while still maintaining and continuous link to the movement's past.

In the end, the study notes that one of the most important things for any movement to survive a failed prophecy is to give a strong and quick answer in response to the failure. It also helps if the movement is "mature" and complex, and not predicated solely on that prophecy.

It's 23 pages, and is a pretty swift read. I recommend anyone interested in faith, believer or not, to read it when they can.

 

[Torah Keeper]

How Do Christians Reconcile The Failure Of False Prophets?

There, I fixed the typos in your thread title.

Simple. We wait to see if their prophecies come to pass. If not, they are a false prophet. You can also know them by their fruits.

I have yet to see a real modern day prophet, although I know there will be at least 2 more, as prophesied in Revelation.

 

[rjs330]

These people are wrong for making false prophesies, period. There nothing in the bible about God wanting Trump to win. These people can't be trusted. Christians need to tell people, what these people really are.

Yeah, false prophets. Sometimes these guys get carried away with their own importance. They get proud of whatever they think they have. Pride goes before destruction.

Of course anyone can give prophecies. But if they don't come to pass they are a false prophet. Plain and simple.

 

[mindlight]

According to the NY Times, the USA has seen a dramatic rise in evangelical preachers making prophesies, particularly concerning the political affairs of Trump and the republican party.

Prophesies are not new, of course, with doomsday prophesy groups, almost exclusively Christian, failing to see the world end on the predicted date.

In the last ten years, prophesies have emerged focussed on the the re-election of Donald Trump and the so called red wave which would see the Democrats swept from power. Now I am not from USA so couldn't care less about their politics. I'm more interested to know how those who believe prophesies, reconcile their faith in both their religion and their preacher, when the prophesy does not come to pass.

Christian Prophets Are on the Rise. What Happens When They’re Wrong? (Published 2021)

They are stars within one of the fastest-growing corners of American Christianity. Now, their movement is in crisis.

www.nytimes.com

We should not treat prophecies with contempt but rather test them and the spirit of the prophet. True prophecy testifies to Jesus and brings glory to Him and is not merely a matter of prediction. I have heard dark-side prophets who have made accurate predictions and should still be regarded as false prophets.

There are also different kinds of prophecy and some types within the church are conditional and do not stamp on people's free will and cooperation with the will of God. But the kind you are speaking about involves national and world events and the tests for those kinds are Old Testament and rigorous. It is one strike and you are out as a rule.

The prevalence of false prophets in many American and indeed African churches is something that appears to relate to church cultures that focus too much power in unaccountable hands. With that lack of accountability, the number of abuses of this ministry multiplies exponentially and is never really remedied. In America, the problem is individualism, and in Africa, the concentration of power in a tribal house church system that still enables chieftains rather than servant leaders.

On these forums, I have spoken with many false prophets over the years. Some said that Obama was the AntiChrist for example and this would become evident in his time in office...Er right well!!! These people cannot be held to account here as they simply leave when they get it wrong or change their accounts.

There is true prophecy and the bible tells us prophetically that Jesus is coming back and that all the peoples of this earth and indeed all false prophets will be held to account one day. There is a difference also between discernment and prophecy. Discerning people can identify trends and likelihoods but do not pretend that they know that these things will definitely come to pass. It is for the wise and discerning among us to seek out those whose words are true to God and whose predictions come true.

 

[Hans Blaster]

We should not treat prophecies with contempt but rather test them and the spirit of the prophet.

Nope. Put them to the test. Hard tests.

If their "prophecy" doesn't hold up then regard them as failures or frauds, whichever is appropriate.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

According to the NY Times, the USA has seen a dramatic rise in evangelical preachers making prophesies, particularly concerning the political affairs of Trump and the republican party.

Prophesies are not new, of course, with doomsday prophesy groups, almost exclusively Christian, failing to see the world end on the predicted date.

In the last ten years, prophesies have emerged focussed on the the re-election of Donald Trump and the so called red wave which would see the Democrats swept from power. Now I am not from USA so couldn't care less about their politics. I'm more interested to know how those who believe prophesies, reconcile their faith in both their religion and their preacher, when the prophesy does not come to pass.

Christian Prophets Are on the Rise. What Happens When They’re Wrong? (Published 2021)

They are stars within one of the fastest-growing corners of American Christianity. Now, their movement is in crisis.

www.nytimes.com

Replying to the subject question: "How do Christians reconcile the failure of prophesies?"

The simple answer is the "No True Scotsman" logical fallacy.

It's so simple that people just use it by default.

Well, those crazy people aren't a part of my denomination .. so ...

But this is a good point. Even though I am not a Catholic, everything the Pope does, reflects on me as a Christian .. as do the words and actions of self proclaimed prophets who end up being liars.


so it's a matter of perception, I'd say.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I think, to be fair, most Evangelicals don't have any love for this kind of thing. The "we have prophets" types of churches belong to a very specific modern tradition that can be traced largely to what we can call "Third Wave Charismaticism". Historians of modern Christian religious movements, as I have studied it, note three waves of Charismaticism in modern times: The first beginning at the Azusa Street Revival in 1906, which kicked off the "old school" Pentecostal churches. Second Wave Charismaticism appeared around the 1960's and 70's, an example of this would be the Vineyard Association of Churches, but is more notable as a pan-denominational or extra-denominational movement that saw charismatic expressions in a variety of churches, even including the rise of Charismatic Catholics. Third Wave Charismaticism is traced somewhat generally to things that begin in the 1980's and 90's, for example the "Latter Rain" movement, and includes what has been called "The New Apostolic Reformation" (aka NAR), with an emphasis on there being new modern day apostles and prophets, a belief that we are living in a new, or just before, a new age of major spiritual revival. When I was growing up in my Pentecostal church back in the 90's I would occasionally hear, not in my church really, but within the larger Charismatic world things like, "God is doing a new thing". Effectively, a belief in a modern day "Pentecost" to radically change the Christian Church and "return" it to be more like a super-charged "New Testament Church" (I'm using quotation marks because it's all hinged on very specific and controversial ideas of what Christianity was like in the first century).

Your local community Baptist church is very unlikely to have anything to do with any of this. But lots of modern non-denominational churches are involved in some of these new Charismatic practices and beliefs which began emerging a few decades ago.

It's also important noting that while this new wave of Charismaticism does share some roots within the old guard Pentecostal churches, not all Pentecostals, not even all Charismatics approve or accept any of this. My old Pentecostal church regularly spoke out against the eccentricities of some of the broader Charismatic movement, notably when the Toronto Blessing and Brownsville Revival stuff was on the news, my Pentecostal pastor came out pretty hard against it as extreme, eccentric, and rather fanatical. Though we did get a new pastor a few years later who seemed to grow more open to it, I don't really know what happened much later as I stopped attending around the time I was out of high school.

I not only think other Christians should read up and study these things, because I believe it is important to be informed. I think a lot of non-Christians should look into some of this too so they are also more informed. Things like the NAR has greater ramifications than just what Christians happen to be arguing about this time, it has much larger cultural and political ramifications as well.

One example of this is Paul White, Donald Trump's spiritual advisor during his presidency, is an example of this NAR/Third Wave Charismatic movement.

Christians should be educated, because it concerns matters of our faith and our witness. Non-Christians should be educated because, like it or not, this stuff affects you too.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[lismore]

2 Timothy 3 says that in the last days terrible times will come, going onto this passage:
For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear (2 Timothy 4:3)

The strange fact is that those leaders and speakers who give blatant false prophecies, it doesn't seem to harm them in any way, quite the opposite in fact. They're still popular among 'Christians'. 'Christians' still support them financially, watch their programmes and podcasts. It is because the false prophet is saying what people want to hear, what the unregenerate person and the sin nature wishes to hear. In the Last Days we're living in people want to be deceived, they want to hear lies. They don't want the truth.

But the faithful witness for Christ must tell the truth, whether it is popular or not.

God Bless

 

[Bob Crowley]

I'm not American, and I'm not very interested in US politics.

In the case of "prophets" making prophecies about Trump or the Democrats, whether for or against, my cynical opinion is that they're actually following their political hobby horse.

So I wouldn't take much notice. In this particular case If their "prophecies" fail, I don't think I'd call them false prophets so much as biased political pundits. They're "prophesying" what they want to happen.

I'm Catholic now, but my old Presbyterian (ex-Methodist) past was prophetic, in the sense that if he said he thought something would happen, I found that sooner or later it did. There are a few predictions that haven't happened yet, but he was accurate. The only way he could know most of the future events he predicted was if God was telling him.

But he didn't engage in the sort of political broadcasting that currently seems to pass for "prophesying" in the US.

 

[Tuur]

The strange fact is that those leaders and speakers who give blatant false prophecies, it doesn't seem to harm them in any way, quite the opposite in fact. They're still popular among 'Christians'. 'Christians' still support them financially, watch their programmes and podcasts. It is because the false prophet is saying what people want to hear, what the unregenerate person and the sin nature wishes to hear. In the Last Days we're living in people want to be deceived, they want to hear lies. They don't want the truth.

I wonder how many do. There’s one false prophet that used to be in the news that I had to look up. It’s been so long since I bothered seeing what he was claiming that I’d forgotten his name.

 

[Mike from NJ]

I wonder how many do. There’s one false prophet that used to be in the news that I had to look up. It’s been so long since I bothered seeing what he was claiming that I’d forgotten his name.

Harold Camping?

 

[lismore]

I wonder how many do. There’s one false prophet that used to be in the news that I had to look up. It’s been so long since I bothered seeing what he was claiming that I’d forgotten his name.

One of the persons in the above video #28, Kenneth Copeland, seems to be weathering any storm generated by his failed prophecies. He is claimed to be the richest televangelist on the planet with an estimated net worth of $760 million. Apparently people are still sending him money God Bless