How Do Calvinists Explain These Verses in the Story of Jonah?

[TaylorSexton]

I believe it is okay to go off topic on occasion, but it appears most here are not trying to stay on topic (for obvious reasons). There were several posts made by me for a call to get back on topic already.

So, it's okay for you to allow yourself to get off topic, but as soon as someone else does it, then it's a bad thing. Got it.

I was merely trying to get you to confirm your beliefs before responding further (so there is no room for misunderstanding). But various Calvinists I have run into do not really like admitting their beliefs to me for some reason. So far I have ran into four posters here who gave me a hard time in admitting in what they believe. That to me tells me a lot about what they believe is not true. For Jesus essentially says we do not hide a light under a bed, etc. But we put that light in a place for all to see.

My only appeal to you is that you refer to original source material for getting your understanding of Reformed theology. Of course, you have already admitted your unwillingness to do this. Instead, you choose to engage in Wikipedia scholarship. I'm concluding at this point that this is due to a combination of laziness and dishonest malice. Fortunately, that is something for which you will have to answer, not anyone else here whom you so passionately and fruitlessly oppose.

 

[Hammster]

But you believe repentance is something God makes them do. So the idea of God threatening to destroy them in a few days is non-sensical.

The reality is that if they hadn't repented, the city would be destroyed. If your misunderstanding was correct, then Jonah wouldn't have even needed to preach.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

So, it's okay for you to allow yourself to get off topic, but as soon as someone else does it, then it's a bad thing. Got it.

Jesus says do unto others as you want done unto yourself. So you never gone off topic in your own thread and then desired to get it back on topic?

My only appeal to you is that you refer to original source material for getting your understanding of Reformed theology. Of course, you have already admitted your unwillingness to do this. Instead, you choose to engage in Wikipedia scholarship. I'm concluding at this point that this is due to a combination of laziness and dishonest malice. Fortunately, that is something for which you will have to answer, not anyone else here whom you so passionately and fruitlessly oppose.

No. That is not my job for me to figure out what YOU believe. By doing this, you are being evasive about your beliefs. It is like I am trying to arm wrestle folks just to get them to tell me what they believe. We are told in Scripture to give an answer for the reason of the hope that is within us. Jesus says the greatest among you serves. So you need to tell me what you believe. I am not into guessing games. People have all sorts of ideas of what Calvin thought.

If you believe in Unconditional Election and Limited Atonement then say... yes. I believe these things.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The reality is that if they hadn't repented, the city would be destroyed. If your misunderstanding was correct, then Jonah wouldn't have even needed to preach.

But you are still not making any sense. You believe 2 Timothy 2:25 is saying that God makes us repent and it not something we can do on our own.

So if God just can make people repent then to threaten them with destruction in a few days would be a lie because God was just going to force them all to repent anyways.

 

[Hammster]

But you are still not making any sense. You believe 2 Timothy 2:25 is saying that God makes us repent and it not something we can do on our own.

So if God just can make people repent then to threaten them with destruction in a few days would be a lie because God was just going to force them all to repent anyways.

I'm making perfectly good sense. You just cannot admit that what you think about Reformed Theology is not correct. Nobody is ever forced to repent. Everyone who repents does so willingly.

Maybe, since Reformed Theology seems to be such an obsession with you, you should take some time to learn what is actually taught. You've already shown to misrepresent what I say, and hopefully that is unintentional. But regardless, you can't make a reasoned argument because you can't represent your opposition correctly.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I'm making perfectly good sense. You just cannot admit that what you think about Reformed Theology is not correct. Nobody is ever forced to repent. Everyone who repents does so willingly.

So when you say, "everyone who repents does so willingly" does that mean they can refuse to repent?

Maybe, since Reformed Theology seems to be such an obsession with you, you should take some time to learn what is actually taught. You've already shown to misrepresent what I say, and hopefully that is unintentional. But regardless, you can't make a reasoned argument because you can't represent your opposition correctly.

No. It is not my job to figure out what you believe. I know of the standard 5 point Tulip belief that is pushed as true by many Calvinistic websties and or churches. This is the belief in which I refer to. If your belief differs than YOU need to show me how your belief differs. For example: What if you ran into someone just like yourself. What if somebody from another religion said that their belief of such a religion is not as commonly taught by most? What if they told you to seek out their religion more instead of them just telling you what they believe? What if you searched and you could not find out what they believed. Should you waste your time trying to discover their beliefs that is not commonly known? Surely not. You wouldn't care to be treated like that. Jesus says do unto others as you would want done unto yourself.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

It seems like folks have a problem in sharing what they actually believe. Four people so far have been evasive about what they believe in regards to Calvinism. Four. This tells me that they are afraid to share what they believe. Why? Because it cannot be defended. Their special belief in Calvinism (that is possibly different than Tulip) does not hold up to any kind of scrutiny. If I am wrong, then prove me wrong by being up front and straight with me. Tell me your beliefs! If not, we are going to keep going around and around in circles. Me asking you to tell me what you believe and you telling me to figure out what you believe. I should not have to ask you what you believe! You should tell me!

 

[Hammster]

It is not my job to figure out what you believe. I know of the standard 5 point Tulip belief that is pushed as true by many Calvinistic websties and or churches.

Obviously you don't.

 

[Hammster]

So when you say, "everyone who repents does so willingly" does that mean they can refuse to repent?

Yes. God doesn't make us robots.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Yes. God doesn't make us robots.

But what about the damned? Are they the ones who refused to repent? Or are they the ones whom God did not give the chance to repent at all? Or is it both? Are the damned both those who did not repent (after being given the enabling to do so) and those in whom God chose not to give the power of repentance to?

 

[Hammster]

But what about the damned? Are they the ones who refused to repent? Or are they the ones whom God did not give the chance to repent at all? Or is it both?

The damned are those who aren't saved. Some refused to repent. Some never heard the gospel.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The damned are those who aren't saved. Some refused to repent. Some never heard the gospel.

Was their not hearing the gospel had anything to do with God electing them to be damned based on no condition within them whatsoever? Or did God know those who never hear the gospel were those in whom He knows would never accepted Him to begin with (even after given the ability to repent)?

I believe those who have not supposedly heard the gospel are those who would have never accepted the gospel to begin with. I believe those who are honesty seeking God, will then receive the gospel message.

 

[Hammster]

Was their not hearing the gospel had anything to do with God electing them to be damned based on no condition within them whatsoever? Or did God know those who never hear the gospel were those in whom He knows would never accepted Him to begin with (even after given the ability to repent)?

I believe those who have not supposedly heard the gospel are those who would have never accepted the gospel to begin with.

I can't understand that first question.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I can't understand that first question.

When I say this is not based on "no condition" of God choosing not to bring the gospel to them and God not given them the ability to repent, I am talking about: Does God refuse to give them the gospel and does He refuse to give them repentance based on "no condition of good or bad qualities within the individual"? Does God just randomly leave these others to just not be saved for no reason? Or is it based upon what God knows they were going to do?

 

[Hammster]

When I say this is not based on "no condition" of God choosing not to bring the gospel to them and God not given them the ability to repent, I am talking about: Does God refuse to give them the gospel and does He refuse to give them repentance based on "no condition of good or bad qualities within the individual"? Does God just randomly leave these others to just not be saved for no reason? Or is it based upon what God knows they were going to do?

It's never random. But we can determine this.

In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, - Ephesians 1:11

Our God is in the heavens; he does all that he pleases. - Psalm 115:3

I know you want some credit for being saved. But that's not how it works.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

It's never random. But we can determine this.

In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works alal things according to the counsel of his will, - Ephesians 1:11

Our God is in the heavens; he does all that he pleases. - Psalm 115:3

I know you want some credit for being saved. But that's not how it works.

There are several problems with your belief here. If salvation is nothing you can even remotely take credit for, then who decides to repent and be saved? You said before God enables a person to repent. Yet they can refuse to repent after they are given the ability to repent. If they repent then they are saved. If they don't repent then they are not saved. So how exactly is salvation all God if they are the one's determining to repent or not after God gives them the ability or power to repent?

Is not repentance a key ingredient in salvation?

Does not the individual have free will to repent or not after being given the power to repent by God?

As for us taking credit for accepting or rejecting God's salvation:

What do you make of verses like these?

"Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." (Philippians 2:12).

"His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord." (Matthew 25:23).

"And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 25:30).

5 "...God;
6 "...will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God." (Romans 2:5-11).

"And being made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him." (Hebrews 5:9).

 

[Hammster]

There are several problems with your belief here. If salvation is nothing you can even remotely take credit for, then who decides to repent and be saved? You said before God enables a person to repent. Yet they can refuse to repent after they are given the ability to repent. If they repent then they are saved. If they don't repent then they are not saved. So how exactly is salvation all God if they are the one's determining to repent or not after God gives them the ability or power to repent?

Is not repentance a key ingredient in salvation?

Does not the individual have free will to repent or not after being given the power to repent by God?

As for us taking credit for accepting or rejecting God's salvation:

What do you make of verses like these?

"Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." (Philippians 2:12).

"His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord." (Matthew 25:23).

"And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 25:30).

5 "...God;
6 "...will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God." (Romans 2:5-11).

"And being made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him." (Hebrews 5:9).

Which question do you want answered? I'm not going to try to decipher this.

 

[Segaz]

Wow. I mean wow. There are a few dedicated uninformed trolls here on the forums. And it seems like they don't know that their repetitive constant avoidance and denial is considered trolling.

This guy refuses to look at traditional reformers based on 'they are dead and gone, I'm dealing with today lol'

Ends posts in a smarmy condescending fashion 'you aren't listening, God bless you ' just seems passive aggressive

Strays away from his own topic to make points and then berates others for doing the same

Constantly only gives strawmen as his proof that all Calvinists believe one thing or another, including 'people he's argued with in the past'

And finally rewords scripture to fit his limited understanding of God 'either God can save everyone or He can't, and if He can but doesn't then he's a monster' -

based on that line of thinking, he could argue that being a is better than hell and unsaved people should not go there in the first place. Is that the road he eventually wants to travel with his persistent claims? I must admit I am impressed with the boards general mood and unfailing resolute in correct scripture.

Now regarding the Right to firearms thread.....ah no I'll stop there