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How do Adventists handle this text?

Daniel Marsh

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John 16 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
16 “I have told you all this so that you won’t lose your faith when you face troubles. 2 People will tell you to leave their synagogues and never come back. In fact, the time will come when they will think that killing you would be doing service for God. 3 They will do this because they have not known the Father, and they have not known me. 4 I have told you all this now to prepare you. So when the time comes for these things to happen, you will remember that I warned you.

The Work of the Holy Spirit
“I did not tell you these things at the beginning, because I was with you then. 5 Now I am going back to the one who sent me. And none of you asks me, ‘Where are you going?’ 6 But you are filled with sadness because I have told you all this. 7 Let me assure you, it is better for you that I go away. I say this because when I go away I will send the Helper to you. But if I did not go, the Helper would not come.

8 “When the Helper comes, he will show the people of the world how wrong they are about sin, about being right with God, and about judgment. 9 He will prove that they are guilty of sin, because they don’t believe in me. 10 He will show them how wrong they are about how to be right with God. The Helper will do this, because I am going to the Father. You will not see me then. 11 And he will show them how wrong their judgment is, because their leader[a] has already been condemned.

12 “I have so much more to tell you, but it is too much for you to accept now. 13 But when the Spirit of truth comes, he will lead you into all truth. He will not speak his own words. He will speak only what he hears and will tell you what will happen in the future. 14 The Spirit of truth will bring glory to me by telling you what he receives from me. 15 All that the Father has is mine. That is why I said that the Spirit will tell you what he receives from me.

Sadness Will Turn Into Happiness
16 “After a short time you won’t see me. Then after another short time you will see me again.”

17 Some of the followers said to each other, “What does he mean when he says, ‘After a short time you won’t see me. Then after another short time you will see me again’? And what does he mean when he says, ‘Because I am going to the Father’?” 18 They also asked, “What does he mean by ‘a short time’? We don’t understand what he is saying.”

19 Jesus saw that the followers wanted to ask him about this. So he said to them, “Are you asking each other what I meant when I said, ‘After a short time you won’t see me. Then after another short time you will see me again’? 20 The truth is, you will cry and be sad, but the world will be happy. You will be sad, but then your sadness will change to happiness.

21 “When a woman gives birth to a baby, she has pain, because her time has come. But when her baby is born, she forgets the pain. She forgets because she is so happy that a child has been born into the world. 22 It is the same with you. Now you are sad, but I will see you again, and you will be happy. You will have a joy that no one can take away. 23 In that day you will not have to ask me about anything. And I assure you, my Father will give you anything you ask him for in my name. 24 You have never asked for anything in this way before. But ask in my name, and you will receive. And you will have the fullest joy possible.

Victory Over the World
25 “I have told you these things, using words that hide the meaning. But the time will come when I will not use words like that to tell you things. I will speak to you in plain words about the Father. 26 Then you will be able to ask the Father for things in my name. I’m not saying that I will have to ask the Father for you. 27 The Father himself loves you because you have loved me. And he loves you because you have believed that I came from God. 28 I came from the Father into the world. Now I am leaving the world and going back to the Father.”

29 Then his followers said, “You are already speaking plainly to us. You are not using words that hide the meaning. 30 We can see now that you know all things. You answer our questions even before we ask them. This makes us believe that you came from God.”

31 Jesus said, “So now you believe? 32 Listen to me. A time is coming when you will be scattered, each to his own home. In fact, that time is already here. You will leave me, and I will be alone. But I am never really alone, because the Father is with me.

33 “I have told you these things so that you can have peace in me. In this world you will have troubles. But be brave! I have defeated the world!”
 

BobRyan

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John 16 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
16 “I have told you all this so that you won’t lose your faith when you face troubles. 2 People will tell you to leave their synagogues and never come back. In fact, the time will come when they will think that killing you would be doing service for God. 3 They will do this because they have not known the Father, and they have not known me. 4 I have told you all this now to prepare you. So when the time comes for these things to happen, you will remember that I warned you.

Well that very thing did happen to the Apostles as they went from city to city.

out of curiosity - I don't see how this is "an Adventist issue" -- wouldn't everyone agree to this point?

Also your post highlights "Father" a number of places -- and Adventists would see that as the first member of the Triune Godhead - the Trinity of Father, Son and Holy Spirit where the Holy Spirit is the "third Person of the Godhead".

Is that what you are asking about??

"The main point" in the Adventist set of doctrines is this

Hebrews 8:1-6
Now the main point in what has been said is this: we have such a high priest, who has taken His seat at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, 2 a minister in the sanctuary and in the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, not man. 3 For every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices; so it is necessary that this high priest also have something to offer. 4 Now if He were on earth, He would not be a priest at all, since there are those who offer the gifts according to the Law; 5 who serve a copy and shadow of the heavenly things, just as Moses was warned by God when he was about to erect the tabernacle; for, “See,” He says, “that you make all things according to the pattern which was shown you on the mountain.”


Christ ascended to heaven - seated at the right hand of the Father in the heavenly sanctuary. Here we see the first two members of the Trinity - the Triune Godhead.. "One God" Deut 6:4 in "three persons" Matt 28:19
 
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mmksparbud

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John 16 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
16 “I have told you all this so that you won’t lose your faith when you face troubles. 2 People will tell you to leave their synagogues and never come back. In fact, the time will come when they will think that killing you would be doing service for God. 3 They will do this because they have not known the Father, and they have not known me. 4 I have told you all this now to prepare you. So when the time comes for these things to happen, you will remember that I warned you.

The Work of the Holy Spirit
“I did not tell you these things at the beginning, because I was with you then. 5 Now I am going back to the one who sent me. And none of you asks me, ‘Where are you going?’ 6 But you are filled with sadness because I have told you all this. 7 Let me assure you, it is better for you that I go away. I say this because when I go away I will send the Helper to you. But if I did not go, the Helper would not come.

8 “When the Helper comes, he will show the people of the world how wrong they are about sin, about being right with God, and about judgment. 9 He will prove that they are guilty of sin, because they don’t believe in me. 10 He will show them how wrong they are about how to be right with God. The Helper will do this, because I am going to the Father. You will not see me then. 11 And he will show them how wrong their judgment is, because their leader[a] has already been condemned.

12 “I have so much more to tell you, but it is too much for you to accept now. 13 But when the Spirit of truth comes, he will lead you into all truth. He will not speak his own words. He will speak only what he hears and will tell you what will happen in the future. 14 The Spirit of truth will bring glory to me by telling you what he receives from me. 15 All that the Father has is mine. That is why I said that the Spirit will tell you what he receives from me.

Sadness Will Turn Into Happiness
16 “After a short time you won’t see me. Then after another short time you will see me again.”

17 Some of the followers said to each other, “What does he mean when he says, ‘After a short time you won’t see me. Then after another short time you will see me again’? And what does he mean when he says, ‘Because I am going to the Father’?” 18 They also asked, “What does he mean by ‘a short time’? We don’t understand what he is saying.”

19 Jesus saw that the followers wanted to ask him about this. So he said to them, “Are you asking each other what I meant when I said, ‘After a short time you won’t see me. Then after another short time you will see me again’? 20 The truth is, you will cry and be sad, but the world will be happy. You will be sad, but then your sadness will change to happiness.

21 “When a woman gives birth to a baby, she has pain, because her time has come. But when her baby is born, she forgets the pain. She forgets because she is so happy that a child has been born into the world. 22 It is the same with you. Now you are sad, but I will see you again, and you will be happy. You will have a joy that no one can take away. 23 In that day you will not have to ask me about anything. And I assure you, my Father will give you anything you ask him for in my name. 24 You have never asked for anything in this way before. But ask in my name, and you will receive. And you will have the fullest joy possible.

Victory Over the World
25 “I have told you these things, using words that hide the meaning. But the time will come when I will not use words like that to tell you things. I will speak to you in plain words about the Father. 26 Then you will be able to ask the Father for things in my name. I’m not saying that I will have to ask the Father for you. 27 The Father himself loves you because you have loved me. And he loves you because you have believed that I came from God. 28 I came from the Father into the world. Now I am leaving the world and going back to the Father.”

29 Then his followers said, “You are already speaking plainly to us. You are not using words that hide the meaning. 30 We can see now that you know all things. You answer our questions even before we ask them. This makes us believe that you came from God.”

31 Jesus said, “So now you believe? 32 Listen to me. A time is coming when you will be scattered, each to his own home. In fact, that time is already here. You will leave me, and I will be alone. But I am never really alone, because the Father is with me.

33 “I have told you these things so that you can have peace in me. In this world you will have troubles. But be brave! I have defeated the world!”



Just what are you asking? From the title of the thread, I was expecting one or 2 verses and there is a wall of texts---in the easy read version no less---and no explanation of what you are trying to point out or how this affects only SDA. Nor why you have bolded "Father."
 
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Daniel Marsh

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Just what are you asking? From the title of the thread, I was expecting one or 2 verses and there is a wall of texts---in the easy read version no less---and no explanation of what you are trying to point out or how this affects only SDA. Nor why you have bolded "Father."

Jesus is going to the father
 
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YouAreAwesome

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What is your point!!?? Where else would He go??
I'm guessing he's meaning this:

SDA fundamental 24 --

At His ascension, He was inaugurated as our great High Priest and, began His intercessory ministry, which was typified by the work of the high priest in the holy place of the earthly sanctuary. In 1844, at the end of the prophetic period of 2300 days, He entered the second and last phase of His atoning ministry, which was typified by the work of the high priest in the most holy place of the earthly sanctuary.

Ascension --> Holy Place (outside of the Most Holy Place where the Father dwells)
1844 --> Most Holy Place

That's my guess. He's attacking the idea that Jesus spent a good 1800 years waiting to go in to the Most Holy Place. One of these days Adventism will delete this fundamental and return to 27. A good portion of SDA's don't agree with it ever since Des Ford completely debunked it at the Glacier View conference. Spent 14 years studying this doctrine and they kick him out for presenting his findings. Crazy.
 
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mmksparbud

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I'm guessing he's meaning this:

SDA fundamental 24 --

At His ascension, He was inaugurated as our great High Priest and, began His intercessory ministry, which was typified by the work of the high priest in the holy place of the earthly sanctuary. In 1844, at the end of the prophetic period of 2300 days, He entered the second and last phase of His atoning ministry, which was typified by the work of the high priest in the most holy place of the earthly sanctuary.

Ascension --> Holy Place (outside of the Most Holy Place where the Father dwells)
1844 --> Most Holy Place

That's my guess. He's attacking the idea that Jesus spent a good 1800 years waiting to go in to the Most Holy Place. One of these days Adventism will delete this fundamental and return to 27. A good portion of SDA's don't agree with it ever since Des Ford completely debunked it at the Glacier View conference. Spent 14 years studying this doctrine and they kick him out for presenting his findings. Crazy.

Desmond Ford later went on to say he was wrong.
If this is what the OP is trying to say---why doesn't he say so? Jesus went to be with His Father---He's in heaven, with His Father no matter what part of His home that is!
 
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YouAreAwesome

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Desmond Ford later went on to say he was wrong.
If this is what the OP is trying to say---why doesn't he say so? Jesus went to be with His Father---He's in heaven, with His Father no matter what part of His home that is!
Do you have evidence that he changed his position?
 
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mmksparbud

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Do you have evidence that he changed his position?


LOL! Not off hand. I've been back to God now for over 35 years---I don't remember where I have the info. I will try to look it up and see if I can find it. There were several that had fallen away and I do know that several came back---I could have the names mixed up. I'll check back in a bit.
 
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mmksparbud

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OK---I was wrong on some facts. I c me back in around 1985 after this was over. I think that was in 1980. He died last year. I think I was confusing him with one named Wheeler. I know he came back, I read his article apologizing.

"Although Ford, who lived in the Sunshine Coast district of Queensland, Australia, was out of official favor in Adventist church circles, in later years there was an entente of sorts.
He retained his membership in a local congregation, and despite what his supporters considered unfair treatment, he never campaigned against the organization."

Desmond Ford, 90, Adventist theologian defrocked for controversial beliefs, dies
 
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BobRyan

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Well that very thing did happen to the Apostles as they went from city to city.

out of curiosity - I don't see how this is "an Adventist issue" -- wouldn't everyone agree to this point?

Also your post highlights "Father" a number of places -- and Adventists would see that as the first member of the Triune Godhead - the Trinity of Father, Son and Holy Spirit where the Holy Spirit is the "third Person of the Godhead".

Is that what you are asking about??

"The main point" in the Adventist set of Bible doctrines is this

Hebrews 8:1-6
Now the main point in what has been said is this: we have such a high priest, who has taken His seat at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, 2 a minister in the sanctuary and in the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, not man. 3 For every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices; so it is necessary that this high priest also have something to offer. 4 Now if He were on earth, He would not be a priest at all, since there are those who offer the gifts according to the Law; 5 who serve a copy and shadow of the heavenly things, just as Moses was warned by God when he was about to erect the tabernacle; for, “See,” He says, “that you make all things according to the pattern which was shown you on the mountain.”


Christ ascended to heaven - seated at the right hand of the Father in the heavenly sanctuary. Here we see the first two members of the Trinity - the Triune Godhead.. "One God" Deut 6:4 in "three persons" Matt 28:19



verse 17 ‘Because I am going to the Father’

verse 28 I came from the Father into the world. Now I am leaving the world and going back to the Father.”

Indeed

"The main point" in the Adventist set of Bible doctrines is this

Hebrews 8:1-6
Now the main point in what has been said is this: we have such a high priest, who has taken His seat at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, 2 a minister in the sanctuary and in the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, not man. 3 For every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices; so it is necessary that this high priest also have something to offer. 4 Now if He were on earth, He would not be a priest at all, since there are those who offer the gifts according to the Law; 5 who serve a copy and shadow of the heavenly things, just as Moses was warned by God when he was about to erect the tabernacle; for, “See,” He says, “that you make all things according to the pattern which was shown you on the mountain.”

Jesus is going to the father

yep
 
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BobRyan

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I'm guessing he's meaning this:

SDA fundamental 24 --

At His ascension, He was inaugurated as our great High Priest and, began His intercessory ministry, which was typified by the work of the high priest in the holy place of the earthly sanctuary.

Which is what we see in Hebrews 8

"The main point" in the Adventist set of Bible doctrines is this

Hebrews 8:1-6
Now the main point in what has been said is this: we have such a high priest, who has taken His seat at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, 2 a minister in the sanctuary and in the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, not man. 3 For every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices; so it is necessary that this high priest also have something to offer. 4 Now if He were on earth, He would not be a priest at all, since there are those who offer the gifts according to the Law; 5 who serve a copy and shadow of the heavenly things, just as Moses was warned by God when he was about to erect the tabernacle; for, “See,” He says, “that you make all things according to the pattern which was shown you on the mountain.”


Christ ascended to heaven - seated at the right hand of the Father in the heavenly sanctuary. Here we see the first two members of the Trinity - the Triune Godhead.. "One God" Deut 6:4 in "three persons" Matt 28:19
 
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OK---I was wrong on some facts. I c me back in around 1985 after this was over. I think that was in 1980. He died last year. I think I was confusing him with one named Wheeler. I know he came back, I read his article apologizing.

"Although Ford, who lived in the Sunshine Coast district of Queensland, Australia, was out of official favor in Adventist church circles, in later years there was an entente of sorts.
He retained his membership in a local congregation, and despite what his supporters considered unfair treatment, he never campaigned against the organization."

Desmond Ford, 90, Adventist theologian defrocked for controversial beliefs, dies

Interesting - but I think we are discussing the OP regarding Adventist doctrine. It is starting to appear that the OP starts off without a good understanding of the Adventist teaching of Christ seated at the right hand of the Father in the Heavenly sanctuary as we see in Heb 8:1-4 - at His ascension. What we call "The main point" as we read Hebrews 8:1
 
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Daniel Marsh said:
Jesus is going to the father

Again what's your point? We know he went to the father.

It now occurs to me that he is not aware that Adventists teach that "the main point" is that Jesus is in heaven as High Priest seated at the right and of the Father and that this is where he went at his ascension and then in 1844 - both of them go to the judgment phase of that High Priestly ministry in what is termed "the Most Holy Place" within that same Heavenly sanctuary".
 
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OK---I was wrong on some facts. I c me back in around 1985 after this was over. I think that was in 1980. He died last year. I think I was confusing him with one named Wheeler. I know he came back, I read his article apologizing.

"Although Ford, who lived in the Sunshine Coast district of Queensland, Australia, was out of official favor in Adventist church circles, in later years there was an entente of sorts.
He retained his membership in a local congregation, and despite what his supporters considered unfair treatment, he never campaigned against the organization."

Desmond Ford, 90, Adventist theologian defrocked for controversial beliefs, dies
Yes. Des was the head of Adventist theology (at Avondale). He was commissioned by the church to study the doctrine of the Investigative judgment. He studied it for 14 years. He presented his findings at the glacier view conference where he pronounced it "not in the bible". Adventism then kicked him out of their fellowship entirely. I encourage you to listen to his presentation and read through the discussion he presents. The investigative judgment is not in the bible.

Des continued to hold Ellen in high regard, continued to keep the Sabbath, continued to eat vegetarian, and said "large ships turn slowly" of the Adventist church. He was a good man and he did not "fall way" as you so rudely phrase it.
 
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