How do abortion supporters respond to this? I don't think there is a way to.

[SPF]

To make abortion illegal would mean taking away America's freedom of choice part in the constitution (despite it being morally wrong).

and making it criminal then exposes the young women to the death penalty if abortion is defined as murder.

You're wrong. Our laws are meant to protect the innocent. For instance, you can drink alcohol if you're 21 in America. You don't see people crying about not having freedom because they're 10 year old can't drink. There are further restrictions on alcohol as well. You can drink in public, but if you're over a certain limit, you cannot drive. You do not see Americans upset that we are limited in our ability to drive drunk.

You don't see Americans upset that they are not allowed to murder their neighbor.

The pro-life position is simple. The morality of abortion stands or falls with how we understand the nature of the life inside the womb. If the unborn child is a human being, it ought to be protected. We believe that the unborn are just as morally valuable and should be just as protected as those who exist outside the womb.

Yet is it illegal for your neighbor to kill you, but not illegal to abort in some places.....These are the facts.

You're still not getting it. The fact is that YOU'RE OK with it being illegal to kill your neighbor. YOU'RE OK with it being illegal for someone to randomly kill your children. YOU'RE OK with the law having it be illegal.

The point is that YOU'RE OK with laws about certain types of killing being illegal. You're NOT OK with a law against killing the innocent unborn due to your "unique" view on human life. You disregard the moral worth and value of the unborn, which is why you're OK with abortion.

 

[Mel333]

You're wrong. Our laws are meant to protect the innocent. For instance, you can drink alcohol if you're 21 in America. You don't see people crying about not having freedom because they're 10 year old can't drink. There are further restrictions on alcohol as well. You can drink in public, but if you're over a certain limit, you cannot drive. You do not see Americans upset that we are limited in our ability to drive drunk.

You don't see Americans upset that they are not allowed to murder their neighbor.

The pro-life position is simple. The morality of abortion stands or falls with how we understand the nature of the life inside the womb. If the unborn child is a human being, it ought to be protected. We believe that the unborn are just as morally valuable and should be just as protected as those who exist outside the womb.

You're still not getting it. The fact is that YOU'RE OK with it being illegal to kill your neighbor. YOU'RE OK with it being illegal for someone to randomly kill your children. YOU'RE OK with the law having it be illegal.

The point is that YOU'RE OK with laws about certain types of killing being illegal. You're NOT OK with a law against killing the innocent unborn due to your "unique" view on human life. You disregard the moral worth and value of the unborn, which is why you're OK with abortion.

Yes. It is wrong and immoral to kill a child. However, your laws protect your freedoms of choice. It is reality. You cannot change your law without changing the freedom of choice law.

 

[parousia70]

Yes, Jesus fulfilled the Law- but He Himself said that He did not abolish it. No, not one tittle has been scrapped. He who breaks the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven- and that's assuming that such a person enters into Life to begin with.

Would I be correct in assuming that you are not keeping the Law of Moses even down to the very least of its 600+ commands (observing every jot and tittle of the Mosaic Law), nor are you teaching others that they must keep all 600+ commands of the Mosaic Law and thus you will be called the least in the Kingdom?

Or, Perhaps you have received a special exemption?

 

[Mel333]

Yes. It is wrong and immoral to kill a child. However, your laws protect your freedoms of choice. It is reality. You cannot change your law without changing the freedom of choice law.

Freedom of Choice Act - Wikipedia

"the 110th United States Congress which "declares that it is the policy of the United States that every woman has the fundamental right to choose to bear a child"

So yeh, you're going against your own laws if you make abortion illegal.

The law does not state it 'protects the innocent'. It states liberty and freedom of choice. That is, the right to bear arms, the right to bear a child, the rights to... freedom of speech.

If you made abortion illegal then it would be open to debate/change the gun act as well and all those freedoms will be gone.

It also would pave the way for all the other moral social justice issues going on to become illegal.

Like it or not. That's the law. Technically, one who doesn't give a woman the right to choose means you're against your law and freedom.

 

[parousia70]

I am a realist. There is no way abortion can be completely eliminated. Even if RvW is overturned, people near the northern border or in eastern Alaska could drive to Canada to get abortons. Up to a certain week (I don't know when) pregnant women are still allowed to fly. And this would be a long shot based on CNN reports.

If RvW gets overturned, it just puts it back on the states to make their own rules about it, and States like Oregon, Washington, Cali, New York, Colorado etc will likely continue to keep it legal, so leaving the country probably wont ever be necessary.

People with Financial means will ALWAYS be able to get an abortion on demand, regardless of what the law says about it.

Only poor people will have to follow the laws that make it illegal.

 

[GodLovesCats]

If RvW gets overturned, it just puts it back on the states to make their own rules about it, and States like Oregon, Washington, Cali, New York, Colorado etc will likely continue to keep it legal, so leaving the country probably wont ever be necessary.

People with Financial means will ALWAYS be able to get an abortion on demand, regardless of what the law says about it.

Only poor people will have to follow the laws that make it illegal.

And poor people are more likely to get raped than rich women, right?

 

[parousia70]

In new York, people are killing there baby's at 8 months.

So, How many people are doing this [>8 Month abortion] each year in New York?

10? 100? 1000? 10,000? 100,000? 1 Million?
How many?

Show us actual the statistics that support this claim.

 

[parousia70]

And poor people are more likely to get raped than rich women, right?

I haven't researched that statistic, but I'd say that it is probably safe to assume it to be true.

 

[RaymondG]

As a Christian, it is our duty to feel compassion for the sinner not for the sin being committed. It is not our duty to impose on anyone's will or for that matter, judge them. We should not get into a debate with them so as to argue and push them away from the Lord. Our duty should be to pray for them, teach them and pray for the laws to treat such who abort as though any criminal committing a murderous act.

If however, they insist on continuing in this path, and reject what the spirit is telling them, then we shall let them be and the Lord will deal with them. It is as any other sinner who has chosen their path. As it is said in Matt 7:13 For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.

The reason I write this is because I have seen soooo many Christians just arguing, debating and bashing out these people and this is ABSOLUTELY NOT the way to go. These Christian folks don't seem to argue and debate with so many folks in churches who have divorced their spouses or are in the middle of considering such acts. STOP the arguing brothers & sisters! Educate them (not convince them), explain what the bible says about committing a murderous act, pray for them and allow them to choose their path just as the Lord has allow you to choose yours. If they choose wrong according to the Lord, then don't stop loving them or being there for them. Be consistently forgiving and insisting that the Lord still loves them and can forgive them if they repent.

This is the way we ought to be as Christians!

Your dialogue would be perfect if you would have left out: "explain what the bible says about committing a murderous act."

For you have judges, too, that women who proceed with the topic, have committed a murderous act.....without knowing or caring about the reason....Based on your own personal feelings and maybe interpretation of scripture....for the law does not state this.

You have done what you told others not to do....
even a little leaven can cause one who dismiss the whole message.

 

[RaymondG]

The point is that YOU'RE OK with laws about certain types of killing being illegal. You're NOT OK with a law against killing the innocent unborn due to your "unique" view on human life. You disregard the moral worth and value of the unborn, which is why you're OK with abortion.

I am unaffected by your slander. If it makes you feel good about yourself to do so..please continue.

Yet us not be fooled into believing that we can hate our brothers in the name of "protecting innocence" and have God be pleased. But I respect your free will to believe that you can.

I find no fault in anything that you have said or believe. May you reap the harvest of all the seeds you sow.

 

[Servant of Yeshua]

Just because someone disagrees with you or your view, doesnt make them hateful. What happened to forgiving because we know not what we do? These are school children and you are calling them hateful because they arent yours...... If you had children born to you in the same position, it is possible they would say the same hateful arguments........ who knows?

It is easy to protect our own and defend our own beliefs........but to have compassion for, and love those who disagree with us......now that is the Love of the Lord.

If they did not know that my child was adopted out of foster care, then them saying that she would have been better off being killed would be understandable. Many times we say things because we have not been exposed to thinking or experiences that conflict with our thoughts.

I trust that if you had heard the manner and know the background in which it was said, it would lead you to believe that it was not hateful. She and I have forgiven them and in fact had many at our house for dinner. We do believe that we should follow Romans 12:21 and not be overcome by evil, bit overcome evil with good. But as a teen you can see the pain that this causes my child everytime someone expresses that she would have been better off dead. On top of it she was born with a birth defect which has caused her to have over 14 hard operations and we continue to go to Children's hospital at least once a month with another operation on the horizon next summer. I have had another child born to me and I thank the Lord that she has compassion and love for people. But yes, children and adults often do not know what they are doing and we should always forgive.

 

[SPF]

Yes. It is wrong and immoral to kill a child

Therefore - abortion should be illegal.

It is illegal for a mother to kill her newborn infant in the hospital. It should be equally illegal for the mother to kill her unborn child. The fact that the child resides in the womb shouldn't impact whether or not we protect its right to life.

 

[SPF]

I am unaffected by your slander.

I haven't slandered you in the least. What I've done is called out the inconsistency in what you're advocating.

Unless you're a pure anarchist and don't think there should be any laws, then it should make perfect sense to you why people want abortion to be illegal. Again, you are perfectly fine with the law saying it is illegal for a mother in a hospital to kill her newborn infant because she changes her mind and no longer wants to care for it.

For those of us who believe that the unborn are just as morally valuable as the born - it is consistent and logical to believe it should be illegal to also kill the unborn, just as it is illegal to kill the born.

The morality of abortion stands or falls with how we understand the nature of the life inside the womb.

 

[dms1972]

The lady with black hair better actually be planning to start an adoption agency, a counseling facility, and a women's reproductive health clinic in every city with a high sex crime rate. As long as there are rapists, poor girls and women will need all of that for free for nine months.

I agree we can't just say "stop abortion!" and leave it at that.
But how do you know what she has done, or is doing besides her anti-abortion efforts?

I don't want to say how much i give to charity, but I support three charities regularly. One is UNICEF, the others are Tearfund and WaterAid - I hope its ok to say that. I think lack of access to clean water is a major problem in parts of the world, so I want to support efforts to improve that. Access to clean water improves lives of everyone.


If you are going to say things need improved for pregnant women are you going to do something or support efforts to bring about those improvements?

 

[claninja]

So it's wrong for us to correct others and tell them that their behavior/beliefs are wrong?

What does Matthew 18:15 say?

I agree, we are to correct those inside the body of Christ. If we personally know some inside the body of Christ, who are actively aborting infants or fetuses, we should speak with them first in private and in love for correction.

However, the law in most states is that abortion is legal. To those who are NOT in the body of Christ and are pro-choice, abortion may not necessarily be a moral issue, especially if they don't see the fetus or blastocyst as a human being. For those in the body of Christ to judge those outside of the body of Christ and attempt to correct them is more often than not futile. Additionally, laws don't typically change the hearts and minds of people. Old covenant Israel is a classic example of that.

Paul states we are to judge and correct those brothers and sisters inside the church. But outside the church? what business is it of our to judge or correct? Now don't misconstrue that statement to mean everything. I mean by what is permissible and not permissible as allowed by the laws in our country. I do not wish to judge those woman who have abortions, who do not know Christ, I wish that they would believe the gospel and live.

1 Corinthians 5:13 What business of mine is it to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked man from among you.”

If we want to change the hearts and minds of those outside of Christ, we do so by preaching the gospel, through words and through actions of love. And even then, it is not us who change the hearts of men, but God. Those who go from death to life are renewed and the old self begins to shed away. The gospel is more powerful than any anti-abortion law or fruitless social media debate.

 

[paul1149]

The lady with black hair better actually be planning to start an adoption agency, a counseling facility, and a women's reproductive health clinic in every city with a high sex crime rate. As long as there are rapists, poor girls and women will need all of that for free for nine months.

You seem to have completely missed the speaker's point.

 

[Hank77]

I am a realist. There is no way abortion can be completely eliminated. Even if RvW is overturned, people near the northern border or in eastern Alaska could drive to Canada to get abortons. Up to a certain week (I don't know when) pregnant women are still allowed to fly. And this would be a long shot based on CNN reports.

Sarah Palin flew from TX to Alaska after her water broke while in TX. There is no rule/law about when pregnant women are allowed to fly.

 

[GodLovesCats]

I agree we can't just say "stop abortion!" and leave it at that.
But how do you know what she has done, or is doing besides her anti-abortion efforts?

I don't want to say how much i give to charity, but I support three charities regularly. One is UNICEF, the others are Tearfund and WaterAid - I hope its ok to say that. I think lack of access to clean water is a major problem in parts of the world, so I want to support efforts to improve that. Access to clean water improves lives of everyone.

If you are going to say things need improved for pregnant women are you going to do something or support efforts to bring about those improvements?

The American Diabetes Association probably does care about pancreatic cancer even though they can't do anything about it. Similarly, the American Cancer Society, as she pointed out, can't tackle diabetes. There is no point in arguing I should do something just because I care about an issue after listening to Hawkins.

 

[Calminian]

The lady with black hair better actually be planning to start an adoption agency, a counseling facility, and a women's reproductive health clinic in every city with a high sex crime rate. As long as there are rapists, poor girls and women will need all of that for free for nine months.

Or else what? You're going to continue to support the legalized murder of non-rape unborn babies? People are finally waking up to these shallow arguments.

As an adoptive parent, I wholeheartedly believe the Christian community will rise to the needs of people. Historically, it always has. Right now the unborn need life, and more and more are rising to protect them. But, the idea some are going stand before God and say, "I had to kill this baby to save it from foster care!" Good luck with that. God knows Abortion is the ultimate abandonment.

 

[GodLovesCats]

Sarah Palin flew from TX to Alaska after her water broke while in TX. There is no rule/law about when pregnant women are allowed to fly.

That is crazy. One person doing it one time does not make a rule that any pregnant woman can fly at any time during her pregnancy.When I lived inb Ohio, a supervisor's wife was not allowed to fly back home at the end of an Ecuador trip because down here she had a problem that led to a pregnancy diagnosis. Also, some pregnant women are put on bed rest during the third trimester. That happened to someone I know. So no, it is not always OK for a pregnant womsn to fly.