How did they know Jesus was God?

[SAAN]

If I remember right, HE told those who wanted proof that HE wasn't going to give them any more proof than Jonah.

And HE said HE only did what the FATHER had HIM DO.
i.e. HE did not try at all to convince anyone,
nor did the thought of convincing anyone affect what HE DID. (nor what HE DOES TODAY).

If Jonah was the proof, much of modern Christianity doesnt believe that proof with the whole Fri-Sun timeline of 1.5 days.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

If Jonah was the proof, much of modern Christianity doesnt believe that proof with the whole Fri-Sun timeline of 1.5 days.

The Jews, Apostles, and early Christians all knew different,
but I don't know if we can even dispute modern "Christianity" according to the rules of this site.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

So on what basis do we allow courts to pass judgement and issue sentences?

? "we allow"
as if "we have a choice" ?

except of course for this :
1 Corinthians 6:7
KJ21
Now therefore, there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one against another.

Why do ye not rather accept wrong?

Why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded?

 

[John Hyperspace]

So on what basis do we allow courts to pass judgement and issue sentences?

On the basis of sufficiency of the evidence, of course; just as we "prove" anything else which has a conclusion based on sufficiency. But this doesn't alleviate the sufficiency problem I mentioned, it merely ignores the problem (or, doesn't recognize it) for the sake of protecting people; meaning, society has deemed it necessary to engage in a faulty and imperfect system of justice in order to attempt to keep the public safe from criminals who would do harm. But most recognize that it's an "imperfect" system - and the imperfection is an end result of the problem of the sufficiency criteria. Innocent men have be convicted of crimes because the evidence was "sufficient" for the jury to convict, yet the jury was wrong, and the "sufficiency" of the evidence was an illusion leading to a false conclusion.

So the problem can't be circumvented, there is no such a thing as objective sufficiency, and no such a thing as objective proof; there's only subjective sufficiency and subjective proof. In deductive matters it has no real or useful meaning in compulsion of belief, since the compelled belief is as subjective as the sufficiency criteria. I can understand the use of it in legal matters which are an attempt to keep the public safe from harm; as they say, it's an imperfect system but may be necessary in this case to engage in such a flawed form of deduction. But in cases outside of those that are designed to keep people safe, the system of deduction based on subjective criterion are unable to "prove" anything beyond the subjectivity of the one doing the deduction.

 

[miknik5]

If Jonah was the proof, much of modern Christianity doesnt believe that proof with the whole Fri-Sun timeline of 1.5 days.

That isn't what is being referred to as the only sign given. Not that Jonah was in the belly of the whale but that the men of Nineveh who repented at Jonahs words will stand in the judgement and condemn the generation who did not listen to the ONE GREATER than Jonah

 

[AnticipateHisComing]

I will speculate. Since Jesus wasn't the Jewish Messiah, as the Jews conceived the Messiah to be, Jesus worked with his Fathers guidance in untangling the mess. It wasn't until his trial that Jesus answered the question, but even then his response was, at least in Matthew "you have said so".

My conjecture is that talk is cheap and there were other cheap talkers claiming to be the Messiah. Jesus wanted to differentiate himself from people that just claimed to be the Messiah. He wanted people to look at what he said and did to know that he was the Messiah. This is in line with my OP.

 

[AnticipateHisComing]

If Jonah was the proof, much of modern Christianity doesnt believe that proof with the whole Fri-Sun timeline of 1.5 days.

Don't be so legalistic in your counting of 3 days. Jesus was in the tomb for three separate days: Friday, Saturday and Sunday. No it wasn't the entirety of 3 whole days, exactly 72 hours, but is that important? Jonah was just a sign, not a prophecy in exactness. Further the Matthew account is the only text that lists 3 days and nights when comparing to Jonah. All the other texts just state Jesus being in the tomb for 3 days, which would be correct as the Jews count.

 

[rockytopva]

Many signs, miracles, and wonders...

12 Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds. -2 Cor 12

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

exactly 72 hours, but is that important?

Yes.
If you keep seeking and checking you will find
the feasts days and times exactly foretold when Y'SHUA would be executed and when HE would be raised.
Gentiles almost never find out,
nor anyone content with tradition.

 

[SAAN]

Don't be so legalistic in your counting of 3 days. Jesus was in the tomb for three separate days: Friday, Saturday and Sunday. No it wasn't the entirety of 3 whole days, exactly 72 hours, but is that important? Jonah was just a sign, not a prophecy in exactness. Further the Matthew account is the only text that lists 3 days and nights when comparing to Jonah. All the other texts just state Jesus being in the tomb for 3 days, which would be correct as the Jews count.

EXTREMELY. if a man walking the earth said he will only give one sign and 1 sign only that he is the Messiah, that sign should be very important.

Mathew 28 says Jesus rose right after the son set Saturday and all the other Gospels states he died at 3 and was placed in the grave right before sunset, so if someone is place in the grave right before sunset Friday and rises right after sunset Saturday night, that is all of 24-27 hours and pretty much 1 days and a few hours, yet alone 3 days. Friday-Sunday is a sham that has easily been disproven many times on here, so we wont get into that again.


But the words of Jesus are very important, so we need to pay attention to them, otherwise we will pretty much say his other words arent important in regards to future events.

 

[Winken]

Here is my simple list of those that testified that Jesus was God.
1) Scripture, OT prophesies
2) Prophets/apostles John the Baptist, John the apostle and the others
3) Jesus' miracles, resurrection
4) Jesus' words, he taught with authority, he prophesied, he claimed to be God
5) God the Father
6) Good fruit

Any other ideas on how the world was changed and convinced that Jesus was God?

Fulfillment of OT prophecy followed by the drawing / conviction by the Holy Spirit. The entering in of the HS following one's confession, as in Romans 10:8-13.

Bear in mind that our Christian Faith is not "just another religion." There is none else; there are no life-saving options.

​

 

[OcifferPls]

If Jesus came today instead of 2000 years ago, how would you determine that a person that claimed to be God was really God?

Firstly, to better understand the authors, put yourself in their shoes in as much as is possible. These are first century Jews: they revere and believe in a prophetic faith (and perhaps moreso than the established authorities of their day). Next, as far as prophecy is concerned, when it is fulfilled, who takes the credit for what happens? Jer 1:12 points to God, and this is a recurring theme, even when many people are involved. In other words, fulfilled prophecy, according to prophecy, is an act of God.

So, from their perspective, observing the ministry of a man who is not simply prophesying, but evidently fulfilling prophecy, consistently throughout the gospel narratives, and not just any prophecy, but peculiar prophecies which speak from a first-person perspective (e.g. "they divide my garments," etc), then it may become apparent that:

• this man who is fulfilling the prophetic word to such a degree is indistinguishable from the fulfillment of the prophetic word itself
• the prophetic word itself is speaking as being afflicted
• the fulfillment of the word is indistinguishable from the activity of God
• and additionally, this fulfillment is indistinguishable from the activity and person of YHWH Himself (as in Zec 11:13).

In conclusion, you might say something along the lines of the word being with God, being God, and becoming flesh.

 

[Lord Kyrios]

Christians today have the benefit of so much history to confirm our faith that the Jesus that walked the earth 2000 years ago was God. If Jesus came today instead of 2000 years ago, how would you determine that a person that claimed to be God was really God? Certainly it has to be more than just a claim to be God, because many claimed this before Jesus came and many have done so even after he came. So how did Jesus convince people that he was the Messiah? I contend that Jesus followed OT convention, that two or more are needed to testify to what is true.

Here is my simple list of those that testified that Jesus was God.
1) Scripture, OT prophesies
2) Prophets/apostles John the Baptist, John the apostle and the others
3) Jesus' miracles, resurrection
4) Jesus' words, he taught with authority, he prophesied, he claimed to be God
5) God the Father
6) Good fruit

Any other ideas on how the world was changed and convinced that Jesus was God?

John 5:31 “If I[Jesus] testify about myself, my testimony is not true.
John 5:33 “You have sent to John and he has testified to the truth.
John 5:36 “I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the works that the Father has given me to finish—the very works that I am doing—testify that the Father has sent me.
John 5:37 And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form,
John 5:39 You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me,
Matthew 7:20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

​

More food for thought. Is there any other religion or man that claimed to be God that has a tenth of the things that testify to their truth like that which Jesus had? Is this not proof that Christianity is the true religion of God?

Jesus Is called Kupios & God Is called Kupios In The Greek Bible. Every Title that applies to God, also applies to Jesus in the Greek.
Example: Jesus is Kupie, Kupiw, Kupiou and God is Kupie, Kupiw, Kupiou. Jesus is God Because His Father is God.
In other words, Your Son inherited your last name so why cannot Jesus be called by His Father's Name, GOD?

 

[WisdomandLove]

Christians today have the benefit of so much history to confirm our faith that the Jesus that walked the earth 2000 years ago was God. If Jesus came today instead of 2000 years ago, how would you determine that a person that claimed to be God was really God? Certainly it has to be more than just a claim to be God, because many claimed this before Jesus came and many have done so even after he came. So how did Jesus convince people that he was the Messiah? I contend that Jesus followed OT convention, that two or more are needed to testify to what is true.

Here is my simple list of those that testified that Jesus was God.
1) Scripture, OT prophesies
2) Prophets/apostles John the Baptist, John the apostle and the others
3) Jesus' miracles, resurrection
4) Jesus' words, he taught with authority, he prophesied, he claimed to be God
5) God the Father
6) Good fruit

Any other ideas on how the world was changed and convinced that Jesus was God?

John 5:31 “If I[Jesus] testify about myself, my testimony is not true.
John 5:33 “You have sent to John and he has testified to the truth.
John 5:36 “I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the works that the Father has given me to finish—the very works that I am doing—testify that the Father has sent me.
John 5:37 And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form,
John 5:39 You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me,
Matthew 7:20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

​

More food for thought. Is there any other religion or man that claimed to be God that has a tenth of the things that testify to their truth like that which Jesus had? Is this not proof that Christianity is the true religion of God?

It may seem arrogant to insist that one's preferred image is better than anyone else's, in some allegedly absolute sense. It is better to say that one finds a self-transforming disclosure of love and wisdom by following one spiritual teacher; that one hopes to remain open to insights from others, as time and opportunity allows, and that one will give every encouragement to others to seek such self-transformation by following what they sincerely see to be good and true. Jesus can mediate God in a unique way which is not found anywhere else. This does not mean that it is the only way or that it is the best way on some common scale. There is one supreme and perfect reality underlying all things, with which we can be acquainted thru many finite modes of expression and the channels and vehicles of whose reality we are called to be. It is Christian, because it takes as a paradigmatic manifestation of that reality the cosmic Christ who is discerned in the life of Jesus and in his risen presence. Christ is the Lord of those who turn to Him as the source of eternal life; He is a finite name and form of the Infinite, which cannot be limited in any way. He is God, who has been discerned in the life of a man, but who is in no way limited to that life or to our understanding of it.

 

[miknik5]

It may seem arrogant to insist that one's preferred image is better than anyone else's, in some allegedly absolute sense. It is better to say that one finds a self-transforming disclosure of love and wisdom by following one spiritual teacher; that one hopes to remain open to insights from others, as time and opportunity allows, and that one will give every encouragement to others to seek such self-transformation by following what they sincerely see to be good and true. Jesus can mediate God in a unique way which is not found anywhere else. This does not mean that it is the only way or that it is the best way on some common scale. There is one supreme and perfect reality underlying all things, with which we can be acquainted thru many finite modes of expression and the channels and vehicles of whose reality we are called to be. It is Christian, because it takes as a paradigmatic manifestation of that reality the cosmic Christ who is discerned in the life of Jesus and in his risen presence. Christ is the Lord of those who turn to Him as the source of eternal life; He is a finite name and form of the Infinite, which cannot be limited in any way. He is God, who has been discerned in the life of a man, but who is in no way limited to that life or to our understanding of it.

JESUS IS THE CHRIST of GOD
There is no other way back to THE FATHER but through THE SON leading us by HIS LIFE-GIVING SPIRIT

 

[WisdomandLove]

JESUS IS THE CHRIST of GOD
There is no other way back to THE FATHER but through THE SON leading us by HIS LIFE-GIVING SPIRIT

There is an incredible arrogance present when any human being or any religious tradition believes that it has cornered the market on the truth of God and can therefore judge anyone who disagrees with them as wrong, inadequate, heretical or whatever. To quote this text from John 14 to justify that concept also reveals little more than a profound biblical ignorance.

“I AM” was the name of God revealed to Moses in the Exodus story of the burning bush. The synagogue authorities had declared that the followers of Jesus were outside the synagogue, outside the faith of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Moses. The followers of Jesus countered that claim by saying that in Jesus they had found a new revelation of the God of Abraham and Moses and that the same God the Jews met in Abraham and Moses, the followers of Jesus had found present in Jesus. So they portrayed Jesus as the one in whom the life of God was newly revealed.

It is the life of God in Jesus that we Christians dare to worship. Jesus is our gateway to understanding God, so we have said that to follow Jesus is to enter God. This was their counter claim hurled against the excommunicating Orthodox Jews, who dismissed them from the synagogue. It never occurred to that author of the Fourth Gospel that these words would someday be used as a weapon of religious imperialism. The lesson one might learn from this text is that NO ONE should quote a text from the Bible unless he or she knows and understands the context out of which those words come.

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