How did the snake know about the tree of the knowledge of good fortune and misfortune?

[peter2]

Please, forgive my poor english speaking, for I'm french.
Indeed, is there any rivalry between the snake (Symbol of fertility) and God's plan for man?
That plain question stems from the strange knowledge of the snake, that neither man nor woman owns.Which also implies that the snake may have had a key role to play, considering its science, that it can hold from God only.
Or, should we assume that it personifies Satan, which can explain a lot, but fails to explain how he(Satan) can be personified by a living creature in the flesh like a snake whereas he presumably did not take that appearance when he spoke to Jesus in the desert.
Secondly, do you think Eve was first to hit perceptiveness, as she first ate the fruit, or did they simutaneously become aware of their nudities, when Adam did the same?

Thank you for reading

 

[1watchman]

Yes, obviously (and as Scripture says) Satan was speaking through the serpent. As God cursed the serpent to crawl and eat dust, it speaks spiritually of Satan's end. Remember, God knows the end from the beginning in all things, and He will always triumph.

 

[Hank77]

Secondly, do you think Eve was first to hit perceptiveness, as she first ate the fruit, or did they simutaneously become aware of their nudities, when Adam did the same?

The scripture says that their eyes were opened After Adam ate.
It also says that sin entered the world through Adam, not Eve.

 

[RaymondG]

You are doing well....you are starting to move away from the story, and onto the meaning of the story. Some people are satisfied with believing that Pigs literally build houses and wolves blow them down, and never move on to the moral/meaning of the words.

Keep seeking and you shall find.

 

[CrystalDragon]

Yes, obviously (and as Scripture says) Satan was speaking through the serpent. As God cursed the serpent to crawl and eat dust, it speaks spiritually of Satan's end. Remember, God knows the end from the beginning in all things, and He will always triumph.

Scripture doesn't say that. There's nothing in Genesis that indicates the serpent was Satan.

 

[peter2]

Thank you 1watchman and Hank77. Could you please tell me where I can find this in the scriptures, for in my own bible,(TOB for oecumenical translation of bible)may be precision is lacking.
Thanks to RaymondG. I'll try and find. Not the first one, am I? A little bit tired with all this seeking, so I'm grateful for your coaching.

 

[Monk Brendan]

Re: the title of your question. First of all, the Tree was the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil, and not good fortune and misfortune. Those both imply an outside agency happening to an innocent person. The knowledge of good and evil shows precisely that, once the fruit had been eaten, Adam and Eve knew what evil was, and they could choose between following God or following your own self-interest, or satan.

Second, the snake was satan. We read in Genesis 3: (KJV)

1 Now the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? 2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: 3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. 4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: 5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. 6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. 7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

The snake is speaking (unlike in Narnia, animals don't speak in the real world). This is a big pointer that something is up. Next, we see that the satan snake is showing more knowledge than Adam and Eve, and we can see that he begins with a lie, "Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?" (In simpler English, Hasn't God told you not to eat of any of the trees in the garden?) Until that time, not one single lie had been spoken on the earth. Seeing as how God would not lie, and Adam and Eve didn't know how (yet) to lie, then who would be the only other source of this lie? Satan, of course. That makes the snake either satan, or a demon sent by satan, or satan is speaking through the snake.

I just remembered something. We do read in Numbers 22:28, “And the LORD opened the mouth of the ass, and she said unto Balaam, What have I done unto thee, that thou hast smitten me these three times?” (KJV) So it requires God to open the mouth of an animal for it to speak. As satan is not an animal, he can speak on his own.

 

[Hank77]

Thank you 1watchman and Hank77. Could you please tell me where I can find this in the scriptures, for in my own bible,(TOB for oecumenical translation of bible)may be precision is lacking.
Thanks to RaymondG. I'll try and find. Not the first one, am I? A little bit tired with all this seeking, so I'm grateful for your coaching.

Genesis 3:5-7
Romans 5:12 and 1 Corinthians 15:21

 

[peter2]

I apoligize, monk brendan, for, in french, it's actually not good and evil that are translated, but good fortune and misfortune. May be I could say good luck and bad luck. The proper translation must go between. So, it's a little more likely a matter of fate or destiny than a sheer moral one.
On the other hand, your demonstration about lie is far more convincing, as Jesus himself said in John, speaking to jews,
that Satan was father of the lie and homicide as early as the begining.
Thank you Hank77. 1 corinthians 15:21 explains that death came through Adam. Did sin enter through he too is another matter. By the way, I was wondering when first appears the word sin in the scripture.

 

[1watchman]

Scripture doesn't say that. There's nothing in Genesis that indicates the serpent was Satan.

So, who do you think it was --- a goodly person? All Scripture about Satan shows how he manifests self to man for deceit in many forms and ways. Are you supposing the voice was a godly Angel from God? See all commentaries by teachers on the subject of Satan!
Remember, too, that Satan was cast out of Heaven onto the earth, and is described much as the "deceiver".

 

[Hank77]

I apoligize, monk brendan, for, in french, it's actually not good and evil that are translated, but good fortune and misfortune. May be I could say good luck and bad luck. The proper translation must go between. So, it's a little more likely a matter of fate or destiny than a sheer moral one.
On the other hand, your demonstration about lie is far more convincing, as Jesus himself said in John, speaking to jews,
that Satan was father of the lie and homicide as early as the begining.
Thank you Hank77. 1 corinthians 15:21 explains that death came through Adam. Did sin enter through he too is another matter. By the way, I was wondering when first appears the word sin in the scripture.

Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

That one man is Adam.

Here are a few websites that are very helpful to Bible study.
For example, look at this link where I entered the word sin...you can see every time the KJV uses the word 'sin' in the whole Bible. You can choose another version of the Bible to search.
Genesis Chapter 1 (KJV)


1 Corinthians 15 KJV
1 Corinthians Chapter 15 (KJV)
BibleGateway.com: A searchable online Bible in over 150 versions and 50 languages.

 

[Adstar]

Please, forgive my poor english speaking, for I'm french.
Indeed, is there any rivalry between the snake (Symbol of fertility) and God's plan for man?
That plain question stems from the strange knowledge of the snake, that neither man nor woman owns.Which also implies that the snake may have had a key role to play, considering its science, that it can hold from God only.
Or, should we assume that it personifies Satan, which can explain a lot, but fails to explain how he(Satan) can be personified by a living creature in the flesh like a snake whereas he presumably did not take that appearance when he spoke to Jesus in the desert.
Secondly, do you think Eve was first to hit perceptiveness, as she first ate the fruit, or did they simutaneously become aware of their nudities, when Adam did the same?

Thank you for reading

Because that old serpent was the fallen angel Lucifer/ satan in disguise...

Revelation 12:
{9} And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."

Yes Eve was the first to know good and evil because she was the first to eat of the fruit.

 

[Hank77]

Yes Eve was the first to know good and evil because she was the first to eat of the fruit.

Eve knew that they were naked before Adam ate it?

 

[Adstar]

Eve knew that they were naked before Adam ate it?

Why are you going down this route of questions?

 

[peter2]

Thank you , you' ve got it right with revelation 12, Adstar.

 

[Hank77]

Why are you going down this route of questions?

Because the OP asked the question and I answered that their eyes were opened at the same time, after Adam ate, per Genesis 3:5-7.
So I was clarifying with you that you believe Eve's eyes were opened before Adam's, which would mean Eve knew they were naked before Adam ate.

 

[4meta]

Eve eyes were open first then she gave to Adam but Adam had a choice not to accept. He probably could had straightened this out but he decided to listen to his wife instead of obeying God.

Genesis 3: 6-7 (KJV)
6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

The scripture does not say both of there eyes were opened at the same time.

 

[CrystalDragon]

So, who do you think it was --- a goodly person? All Scripture about Satan shows how he manifests self to man for deceit in many forms and ways. Are you supposing the voice was a godly Angel from God? See all commentaries by teachers on the subject of Satan!
Remember, too, that Satan was cast out of Heaven onto the earth, and is described much as the "deceiver".

Satan wasn't cast out of heaven. If you read ALL of Isaiah 14 and not just Isaiah 14:12-15 that everyone cherry-picks, it shows that it's all a proverb against the arrogant king of Babylon who saw himself as greater than anyone else. The only reason people think it refers to Satan is because it's what they were told and they never read the rest of the chapter.

Same goes for Genesis. The serpent is never said to be Satan, nothing more than a talking serpent. God gives it a punishment to slither on the ground, as an explanation for why snakes slither today. God commanding the serpent to go on its belly and eat dust wouldn't make sense if the serpent was Satan, but it makes perfect sense if it was just a serpent.

 

[Hank77]

Eve eyes were open first then she gave to Adam but Adam had a choice not to accept. He probably could had straightened this out but he decided to listen to his wife instead of obeying God.

Genesis 3: 6-7 (KJV)
6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

The scripture does not say both of there eyes were opened at the same time.

Progression...she took, she ate, she gave, he ate, their eyes were opened, they knew they were naked.

So Eve's eyes were opened and she wasn't surprised to see that they were naked and didn't gasp or mention it to Adam before he ate? Maybe, but highly unlikely I would think considering their shock and fear when they saw that they were naked.

 

[marineimaging]

We have identified the King James Version of the Bible to be the most accurate in terms of the intention of scripture to manifest God's words and the poetry of Gods intentions. To say fortune and misfortune is an immediate disconnection between good and evil and for that reason I would reject that translation without hesitation as false doctrine. Many of the English Bibles have also ventured so far away from God's Holy Word that they cannot be trusted. This is where so much discourse is created in our world today.