How did the snake know about the tree of the knowledge of good fortune and misfortune?

[1watchman]

Certainly "much discourse" among professing Christians, who want their own ideas rather than the mind of God, I believe.

 

[CrystalDragon]

We have identified the King James Version of the Bible to be the most accurate in terms of the intention of scripture to manifest God's words and the poetry of Gods intentions. To say fortune and misfortune is an immediate disconnection between good and evil and for that reason I would reject that translation without hesitation as false doctrine. Many of the English Bibles have also ventured so far away from God's Holy Word that they cannot be trusted. This is where so much discourse is created in our world today.

But the KJV wasn't written until the reign of King James, how do we know it's the most accurate? Was it the first one compiled into English?

 

[peter2]

May be like you crystaldragon, I wished the serpent was not Satan, for it's a creature too. But how do you interpret revelation 12, which is not very controversial.

As for their eye-opening, it seems to me it can hardly be settled wether it comes from eating the fruit or from its sharing.

As for my translation of bible, may be it's not faithful, but this bible was given to me by a catholic priest (which is not a guarantee, of course)

 

[peter2]

Perhaps Adam had the first erection of a man in mankind, which brought about their simultaneous Shame only after hé ate the fruit.

 

[OpenYourBibles]

Please, forgive my poor english speaking, for I'm french.
Indeed, is there any rivalry between the snake (Symbol of fertility) and God's plan for man?
That plain question stems from the strange knowledge of the snake, that neither man nor woman owns.Which also implies that the snake may have had a key role to play, considering its science, that it can hold from God only.
Or, should we assume that it personifies Satan, which can explain a lot, but fails to explain how he(Satan) can be personified by a living creature in the flesh like a snake whereas he presumably did not take that appearance when he spoke to Jesus in the desert.
Secondly, do you think Eve was first to hit perceptiveness, as she first ate the fruit, or did they simutaneously become aware of their nudities, when Adam did the same?

Thank you for reading

We don't have to assume anything, Revelations 12:9 tells us exactly who that serpent is

And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth,...

Satan deceived Eve as a snake, surely Jesus knew who Satan was and would not be deceived by any trick of the Devil, including the 3 that Satan did try to present to him!

Notice God does not curse Satan in Genesis, that judgement has already been laid out, but rather God cursed the serpent to for ever crawl on its belly and eat dust, as the snakes we know and see today.

 

[Kutte]

Why are you going down this route of questions?

Hi Adstar,
speaking of questions, here is another one: Let us consider Adam and Eve did not gain any awareness of good and bad, would they still be walking around in the Garden of Eden stark naked with no challenges to overcome?
God bless

 

[lincomen]

Au Québec, nous utilisons la version Louis Ségond, le plus près du KJV, loins des influences Catholique.

Genèse 2
2.8
Puis l'Éternel Dieu planta un jardin en Éden, du côté de l'orient, et il y mit l'homme qu'il avait formé.
2.9
L'Éternel Dieu fit pousser du sol des arbres de toute espèce, agréables à voir et bons à manger, et l'arbre de la vie au milieu du jardin, et l'arbre de la connaissance du bien et du mal.

2.15
L'Éternel Dieu prit l'homme, et le plaça dans le jardin d'Éden pour le cultiver et pour le garder.
2.16
L'Éternel Dieu donna cet ordre à l'homme: Tu pourras manger de tous les arbres du jardin;
2.17
mais tu ne mangeras pas de l'arbre de la connaissance du bien et du mal, car le jour où tu en mangeras, tu mourras.
2.18
L'Éternel Dieu dit: Il n'est pas bon que l'homme soit seul; je lui ferai une aide semblable à lui.
2.19
L'Éternel Dieu forma de la terre tous les animaux des champs et tous les oiseaux du ciel, et il les fit venir vers l'homme, pour voir comment il les appellerait, et afin que tout être vivant portât le nom que lui donnerait l'homme.
2.20
Et l'homme donna des noms à tout le bétail, aux oiseaux du ciel et à tous les animaux des champs; mais, pour l'homme, il ne trouva point d'aide semblable à lui.
2.21
Alors l'Éternel Dieu fit tomber un profond sommeil sur l'homme, qui s'endormit; il prit une de ses côtes, et referma la chair à sa place.
2.22
L'Éternel Dieu forma une femme de la côte qu'il avait prise de l'homme, et il l'amena vers l'homme.
2.23
Et l'homme dit: Voici cette fois celle qui est os de mes os et chair de ma chair! on l'appellera femme, parce qu'elle a été prise de l'homme.
2.24
C'est pourquoi l'homme quittera son père et sa mère, et s'attachera à sa femme, et ils deviendront une seule chair.
2.25
L'homme et sa femme étaient tous deux nus, et ils n'en avaient point honte.

3.1
Le serpent était le plus rusé de tous les animaux des champs, que l'Éternel Dieu avait faits. Il dit à la femme: Dieu a-t-il réellement dit: Vous ne mangerez pas de tous les arbres du jardin?
3.2
La femme répondit au serpent: Nous mangeons du fruit des arbres du jardin.
3.3
Mais quant au fruit de l'arbre qui est au milieu du jardin, Dieu a dit: Vous n'en mangerez point et vous n'y toucherez point, de peur que vous ne mouriez.
3.4
Alors le serpent dit à la femme: Vous ne mourrez point;
3.5
mais Dieu sait que, le jour où vous en mangerez, vos yeux s'ouvriront, et que vous serez comme des dieux, connaissant le bien et le mal.
3.6
La femme vit que l'arbre était bon à manger et agréable à la vue, et qu'il était précieux pour ouvrir l'intelligence; elle prit de son fruit, et en mangea; elle en donna aussi à son mari, qui était auprès d'elle, et il en mangea.
3.7
Les yeux de l'un et de l'autre s'ouvrirent, ils connurent qu'ils étaient nus, et ayant cousu des feuilles de figuier, ils s'en firent des ceintures.

 

[1watchman]

Satan wasn't cast out of heaven. If you read ALL of Isaiah 14 and not just Isaiah 14:12-15 that everyone cherry-picks, it shows that it's all a proverb against the arrogant king of Babylon who saw himself as greater than anyone else. The only reason people think it refers to Satan is because it's what they were told and they never read the rest of the chapter.

Same goes for Genesis. The serpent is never said to be Satan, nothing more than a talking serpent. God gives it a punishment to slither on the ground, as an explanation for why snakes slither today. God commanding the serpent to go on its belly and eat dust wouldn't make sense if the serpent was Satan, but it makes perfect sense if it was just a serpent.

I think you are speaking only of what is in front of you, but Isaiah is prophetic for Israel into the future. Chapter 14 speaks of the Kingdom set up and Israel restored and exalted. Babylon is a type of worldly systems and religious ways ahead against Israel (also all saints of God --note also Revelation), symbolic of confusion "babel" ---both religious and political; and Satan is showed again in type as come down to oppose them and all of God's people (shown both as Lucifer --angel of light cast out of Heaven), and Satan (adversary -destroyer) . Israel will be restored by the mercies and care of God for the "new earth". Don't ever underestimate Satan, and read the fullness of meanings also by many Bible scholars.

 

[Adstar]

Because the OP asked the question and I answered that their eyes were opened at the same time, after Adam ate, per Genesis 3:5-7.
So I was clarifying with you that you believe Eve's eyes were opened before Adam's, which would mean Eve knew they were naked before Adam ate.

So what if she knew before Adam ? why even go into that?

 

[Adstar]

Hi Adstar,
speaking of questions, here is another one: Let us consider Adam and Eve did not gain any awareness of good and bad, would they still be walking around in the Garden of Eden stark naked with no challenges to overcome?
God bless

Yes..

Unless God had another post satanic deception challenge? Maybe if satan had failed to sabotarge Adam and Eve would have gone on to another purpose? God knows..

 

[peter2]

Adstar and Kutte , did you read my explanation in #24 ? It woud be an explanation at least of why Eve didn't gasp alone first

 

[CrystalDragon]

I think you are speaking only of what is in front of you, but Isaiah is prophetic for Israel into the future. Chapter 14 speaks of the Kingdom set up and Israel restored and exalted. Babylon is a type of worldly systems and religious ways ahead against Israel (also all saints of God --note also Revelation), symbolic of confusion "babel" ---both religious and political; and Satan is showed again in type as come down to oppose them and all of God's people (shown both as Lucifer --angel of light cast out of Heaven), and Satan (adversary -destroyer) . Israel will be restored by the mercies and care of God for the "new earth". Don't ever underestimate Satan, and read the fullness of meanings also by many Bible scholars.

Lucifer was never Satan, it's just a translation of Morning Star that was used to refer to the king of Babylon in a proverb. Those in power were often called Morning Star then, including Jesus himself.

 

[marineimaging]

Certainly "much discourse" among professing Christians, who want their own ideas rather than the mind of God, I believe.

I agree wholeheartedly. It seems that the divide and conquer plan is working. "Oh Satan. How did you know how to bring about the demise of Christians in the world? It wasn't enough for ISIS to behead them. Your plan to divide them surely seems so much more successful."

 

[Hank77]

Secondly, do you think Eve was first to hit perceptiveness, as she first ate the fruit, or did they simutaneously become aware of their nudities, when Adam did the same?

So what if she knew before Adam ? why even go into that?

You already asked me that and I replied, because the OP asked the question. See quote above.

 

[Hank77]

Lucifer was never Satan, it's just a translation of Morning Star that was used to refer to the king of Babylon in a proverb. Those in power were often called Morning Star then, including Jesus himself.

What do you make of Ezekiel 28?

 

[CrystalDragon]

What do you make of Ezekiel 28?

Same deal, but a proverb regarding the king of Tyre instead. A proverb is, by definition, a simple and concrete saying, popularly known and repeated, that expresses a truth based on common sense or experience, and is often metaphor, which is the case here. Let's take a look at some other proverbs:

- "A monkey in silk is a monkey no less” – this isn't referring to a literal monkey wearing silk, but means that just because someone dresses fancy does not necessarily mean that they are fancy or of good character.

-Monday’s child is fair of face/Tuesday’s child is full of grace,/Wednesday’s child is full of woe,/Thursday’s child has far to go,/Friday’s child is loving and giving,/Saturday’s child works hard for its living/And a child that’s born on the Sabbath day/Is fair and wise and good and gay.
- Those aren't literal traits bestowed on every child born on those days, and the days of the week do not literally have children. It's a proverb that means to honor the Sabbath

- “I have been bitten by a tsetse fly” – This Tanzanian proverb doesn't mean being literally bitten by a fly, it means that a person will continuously be a pest until you pay off a debt.

-An army of sheep led by a lion would defeat an army of lions led by a sheep. - an Arabic proverb which seems to mean that people must be led by a strong leader, rather than an army of those who are strong led by a more timid person who doesn't know what they are doing.

It's exactly the same case here. The proverb alludes to how the King of Tyre at one point was great and had many blessings, his life being perfect for him (hence "You were in Eden"). But then, like the king of Babylon, the king of Tyre became prideful as a result of the wisdom he gained and power over the lands, and saw himself as having equal power to God, or at least being great in power. So as a result of his arrogance, he would lose the blessed life he gained and eventually fall as a result of his arrogance.

 

[Hank77]

Same deal, but a proverb regarding the king of Tyre instead. A proverb is, by definition, a simple and concrete saying, popularly known and repeated, that expresses a truth based on common sense or experience, and is often metaphor, which is the case here. Let's take a look at some other proverbs:

Do you find it ironic that so much of what is said about the King of Tyre is also said about satan?
Could we say that the King of Tyre is being compared to satan because he has fallen into the same iniquity as the one influencing him, satan, namely pride and a thirst for power?
When Peter spoke against Jesus' pending death Jesus didn't rebuke Peter, but stopped talking to Peter and addressed the one influencing him, satan.

 

[Kutte]

Yes..

Unless God had another post satanic deception challenge? Maybe if satan had failed to sabotarge Adam and Eve would have gone on to another purpose? God knows..

Adstar,

It seems to me that without having to face problems and challenges one doesn't need to be aware of good and bad,
meaning, taking everything for granted without appreciation, void of feelings of happiness.
Thanks for your response.
My best

 

[Kutte]

Perhaps Adam had the first erection of a man in mankind, which brought about their simultaneous Shame only after hé ate the fruit.

Dear peter,
I don't think they encountered feelings of shame after they became aware of good and bad. This is the result of cultural inducements. Love making is a gift from God for the purpose of providing good feelings and bringing babies into the world.
God bless

 

[1watchman]

It seems some professing Christians do not think Satan even exists in the world. That, of course, is what he wants man to think.