LDS How did the Mormon father god who doesn't even exist impregnate

Rescued One · Nov 14, 2020

He is the way said:
Are you saying this is wrong, that Jesus was not begotten (born) of Mary? Jesus was indeed born of Mary, but Joseph was NOT His father. He is the Son of God the Father.

Are you suggesting that I don't believe the Bible? Do Christians believe the Bible? Why do you pretend that I said something I never said. Kindness and honesty would require that you cease your poor suggestions.

He is the way · Nov 14, 2020

Phoebe Ann said:
Are you suggesting that I don't believe the Bible? Do Christians believe the Bible? Why do you pretend that I said something I never said. Kindness and honesty would require that you cease your poor suggestions.

So what are you suggesting by your post? I didn't see anything contrary to the Bible in your post of our doctrine.

Rescued One · Nov 14, 2020

Peter1000 said:
Yes, God the Father, this time concealed in a cloud, got between the sun and Peter, James, and John, and Jesus on the Mt. Transfiguration, and cast a shadow on them.

Which of your leaders told you that? Was he a prophet, an apostle, or a bishop? Is it in a lesson manual? Which lesson manual or conference talk gave you that information?

Peter1000 said:
I believe that all men's spirits were begotten of God before all ages. Jesus was the first of these spirit children of God, but was the only one that was begotten in the flesh, when the Holy Ghost fell on Mary and the power of the Highest overshadowed her. And that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

So is "before all ages" after God the Father left his mortal habitation and was granted Godhood? Prior to Godhood how could he create spirit children? In Mormonism only gods can create spirit children.

"What blessings await those who live worthy of exaltation? (Godhood, having all things subject to them, having angels subject to them, having all power, living with Jesus.) Point out that just as Jesus Christ was promised all that the Father has, we can also receive all power and dominion, becoming creators of other spirits and other worlds."
Young Women Manual 2, “Lesson 29: Exaltation,” p. 108

Where does the Bible say that women were involved in creating Adam and Eve?

“The Father has promised us that through our faithfulness we shall be blessed with the fulness of his kingdom. In other words we will have the privilege of becoming like him. To become like him we must have all the powers of godhood; thus a man and his wife when glorified will have spirit children who will eventually go on an earth like this one we are on and pass through the same kind of experiences, being subject to mortal conditions, and if faithful, then they will receive the fullness of exaltation and partake of the same blessings. There is no end to this development; it will go on forever. We will become gods and have jurisdiction over worlds, and these worlds will be peopled by our own offspring. We will have an endless eternity for this.”
Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 2:43-44, 48

THE STRAITNESS OF THE WAY. Mortality is the testing or proving ground for exaltation to find out who among the children of God are worthy to become Gods themselves, and the Lord has informed us that "few there be that find it."
Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 1:69-70

_______________________________________

'We would find, were we to carry this subject from world to world, from our world to another, even to the endless ages of eternity, that there never was a time but what there was a Father and Son. In other words when you entertain that which is endless, you exclude the idea of first being, a first world; the moment you admit of a first, you limit the idea of endless.

'Says one, "this is incomprehensible." It may be so in some respects. We can admit, though, that duration is endless, for it is impossible for man to conceive of a limit to it. If duration is endless there can never be a first minute, a first hour, or first period; endless duration in the past is made up of a continuation of endless successive moments—it had no beginning. Precisely so with regard to this endless succession of personages; there never will be a time when fathers, and sons, and worlds will not exist; neither was there ever a period through all the past ages of duration, but what there was a world, and a Father and Son, a redemption and exaltation to the fullness and power of the Godhead. ***

'Says one, "this is incomprehensible." It may be so in some respects. We can admit, though, that duration is endless, for it is impossible for man to conceive of a limit to it. If duration is endless there can never be a first minute, a first hour, or first period; endless duration in the past is made up of a continuation of endless successive moments—it had no beginning. Precisely so with regard to this endless succession of personages; there never will be a time when fathers, and sons, and worlds will not exist; neither was there ever a period through all the past ages of duration, but what there was a world, and a Father and Son, a redemption and exaltation to the fullness and power of the Godhead.

...
'How very plain it is when we once learn about our future heaven. We do not have to pray, according to the Methodists, for the Lord to take us to a land beyond time and space, the Saints, secure abode. How inconsistent to look for a heaven beyond space! The heaven of the Saints is something we can look forward to in the confident hope of realizing our inheritances and enjoying them forever, when the earth becomes sanctified and made new. And there, as here, we will spread forth, and multiply our children. How long? For eternity. What, resurrected Saints have children? Yes, the same as our God, who is the Father of our spirits; so you, if you are faithful to the end, will become fathers to your sons and daughters, who will be as innumerable as the sands upon the sea shore; they will be your children, and you will be their heavenly fathers, the same as our heavenly Father is Father to us, and they will belong to your kingdoms through all the vast ages of eternity, the same as we will belong to our father's kingdom.'
B. H. Roberts, The Mormon Doctrine of Deity, p.276-284
Mormons Hope to Become Gods of Their Own Worlds

chad kincham · Nov 14, 2020

Andrewn said:
It seems that your view has merit. I went back and checked the Greek word "episkiazo," which is translated "overshadow." The same word is used in Christ's transfiguration to describe a bright cloud from which a voice came saying “This is My beloved Son, with whom I am well-pleased; listen to Him!” (Mat 17:5; Mar 9:7; Luk 9:34-35).

So, your interpretation that something similar took place at Jesus' conception is conceivable. Are there other appearances in the Bible of the Heavenly Father in the form of a cloud? I have to think more of this.

God the Father dwells in unapproachable light.

When His presence is around people, He conceals Himself in a cloud to shield them.

At night, His light is visible within the cloud - this is why scripture says He appeared to the Israelites as a cloud by day, and a pillar of fire at night.

Andrewn · Nov 18, 2020

I don't think anyone denies this. You're attacking a strawman. But again, Jesus' body is glorified and could appear and disappear suddenly and go through closed doors.

Rescued One · Nov 19, 2020

mac777 said:
Most churchs declare that Jesus is a Spirit... They say that after His ressurection He went back to heaven as a Spirit.
This is a denial of the Ressurection.

Which churches teach that Jesus is only a spirit? I try to learn a little during my online time.

Peter1000 · Nov 20, 2020

Phoebe Ann said:
My post contained enough information. It is apparent that your leaders taught what they did. And just because you and your wife have different ideas than your leaders doesn't mean you are right and they are wrong. I'm not going to waste my time with lengthy posts to you. I've spent hours upon hours explaining Mormonism. It's as crazy as Trump speaking to Biden or vice versa.

I don't doubt what I cannot know. I am not a Mormon because God doesn't want me to believe that stuff.

I agree, this subject is too silly to argue about.

Rescued One · Nov 21, 2020

So here's more of what Milton R. Hunter taught:

"The prophets of our dispensation have clearly explained the doctrine of heavenly parenthood. In the words of President Joseph F. Smith, and his counselors, John R. Winder and Anthon H. Lund: 'Man, as a spirit, was begotten and born of Heavenly Parents, and reared to maturity in the eternal mansions of the Father prior to coming upon the earth in a temporal body to undergo an experience in mortality.' 13 President Brigham Young read the two verses in Genesis 1:26-27, which declared that God created man, and then he told the congregation:

"I believe that the declaration made in these scriptures is literally true. God has made His children like like Himself to stand erect, and has endowed them with intelligence and power and dominion over all His works, and given them the same attributes which He Himself possesses. He created men, as we create our children; for there is no other process of creation in heaven or on the earth, in the earth, or under the earth, or in all the eternties, that is, that were, or that ever will be. 14"

13 Joseph F. Smith, Improvement Era, vol. 13, p. 80.
14 Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 11, p. 122.

Milton R. Hunter, The Gospel Through the Ages, copyright 1945, p.99
__________________________________________________________________
"He created men, as we create our children..."

He is the way · Nov 21, 2020

Phoebe Ann said:
So here's more of what Milton R. Hunter taught:

"The prophets of our dispensation have clearly explained the doctrine of heavenly parenthood. In the words of President Joseph F. Smith, and his counselors, John R. Winder and Anthon H. Lund: 'Man, as a spirit, was begotten and born of Heavenly Parents, and reared to maturity in the eternal mansions of the Father prior to coming upon the earth in a temporal body to undergo an experience in mortality.' 13 President Brigham Young read the two verses in Genesis 1:26-27, which declared that God created man, and then he told the congregation:

"I believe that the declaration made in these scriptures is literally true. God has made His children like like Himself to stand erect, and has endowed them with intelligence and power and dominion over all His works, and given them the same attributes which He Himself possesses. He created men, as we create our children; for there is no other process of creation in heaven or on the earth, in the earth, or under the earth, or in all the eternties, that is, that were, or that ever will be. 14"

13 Joseph F. Smith, Improvement Era, vol. 13, p. 80.
14 Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 11, p. 122.

Milton R. Hunter, The Gospel Through the Ages, copyright 1945, p.99
__________________________________________________________________
"He created men, as we create our children..."

Jesus was born to a virgin:

(Book of Mormon | 2 Nephi 17:14)

14 Therefore, the Lord himself shall give you a sign—Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and shall bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

(Book of Mormon | Alma 7:10)

10 And behold, he shall be born of Mary, at Jerusalem which is the land of our forefathers, she being a virgin, a precious and chosen vessel, who shall be overshadowed and conceive by the power of the Holy Ghost, and bring forth a son, yea, even the Son of God.

Ironhold · Nov 21, 2020

Phoebe Ann said:
Which churches teach that Jesus is only a spirit? I try to learn a little during my online time.

One of the more common arguments that members of the Christian counter-cult use is "the KJV rendering of John 4:24 says 'God is a spirit', and so you're wrong for teaching that he has a body!".

So even if no denomination has that as official policy, it shows up often enough in critical literature that a person can be readily forgiven for thinking that it actually is.

Rescued One · Nov 21, 2020

I've read your "scriptures," lesson manuals, magazines, apologetics, etc.

He is the way · Nov 21, 2020

Phoebe Ann said:
I've read your "scriptures," lesson manuals, magazines, apologetics, etc.

So you came up with your own conclusions as to what we believe. We know what we believe and what we believe agrees with the Bible.

Andrewn · Nov 22, 2020

Ironhold said:
One of the more common arguments that members of the Christian counter-cult use is "the KJV rendering of John 4:24 says 'God is a spirit', and so you're wrong for teaching that he has a body!".

So even if no denomination has that as official policy, it shows up often enough in critical literature that a person can be readily forgiven for thinking that it actually is.

Joh 4:24 refers to our Heavenly Father. He does not have a body. The Son of God does.

He is the way · Nov 22, 2020

Andrewn said:
Joh 4:24 refers to our Heavenly Father. He does not have a body. The Son of God does.

We are made in the image of God. He does have a spiritual body and when we see him we will see that we are like Him:

(New Testament | 1 John 3:2)

2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Ignatius the Kiwi · Nov 22, 2020

Since the Holy Spirit conceived Jesus, and the Holy Spirit is a separate god in Mormomism from that of the Heavenly Father, wouldn't that make the Spirit Jesus' Father in Mormonism? How is it that Heavenly Father is even Jesus' Father when it was the Holy Spirit who conceived him?

He is the way · Nov 22, 2020

Ignatius the Kiwi said:
Since the Holy Spirit conceived Jesus, and the Holy Spirit is a separate god in Mormomism from that of the Heavenly Father, wouldn't that make the Spirit Jesus' Father in Mormonism? How is it that Heavenly Father is even Jesus' Father when it was the Holy Spirit who conceived him?

(New Testament | Luke 1:35)

35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Jesus was conceived by God the Father through the power of the Holy Ghost.

Andrewn · Nov 23, 2020

He is the way said:
He does have a spiritual body and when we see him we will see that we are like Him:

(New Testament | 1 John 3:2)

2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

I have to admit that you come up with the most interesting verses .

2Co 3:16 but whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is removed. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18 We all, with unveiled faces, are looking as in a mirror at the glory of the Lord and are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory; this is from the Lord who is the Spirit.

1Jo 3:2 Loved ones, now we are God’s children; and it has not yet been revealed what we will be. But we do know that when it’s revealed, we shall be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is.

Rev 22:3 No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in the city, and His servants shall serve Him. 4 They shall see His face, and His name shall be on their foreheads.

What I read in these verses is that we are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory by seeing God with the result that we shall be like Him (in glory?).

Joh 17:22 The glory that You have given to Me I have given to them, that they may be one just as We are one

I don't see these verses indicating that we will be like God in form or that He has a body.

dzheremi · Nov 23, 2020

He is the way said:
(New Testament | Luke 1:35)

35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Jesus was conceived by God the Father through the power of the Holy Ghost.

That doesn't answer anything. Again, the key point of this question is that the Holy Spirit is a separate god in Mormonism, so how is it that God the Father can be Jesus' father in Mormonism?

How is it that the power of the Holy Spirit can be expressed via God the Father if they're not the same God, since Mormonism rejects the orthodox Christian doctrine as proclaimed through the Nicene Creed that the three Persons of the Trinity are homoousios?

He is the way · Nov 23, 2020

Andrewn said:
I have to admit that you come up with the most interesting verses .

2Co 3:16 but whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is removed. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18 We all, with unveiled faces, are looking as in a mirror at the glory of the Lord and are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory; this is from the Lord who is the Spirit.

1Jo 3:2 Loved ones, now we are God’s children; and it has not yet been revealed what we will be. But we do know that when it’s revealed, we shall be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is.

Rev 22:3 No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in the city, and His servants shall serve Him. 4 They shall see His face, and His name shall be on their foreheads.

What I read in these verses is that we are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory by seeing God with the result that we shall be like Him (in glory?).

Joh 17:22 The glory that You have given to Me I have given to them, that they may be one just as We are one

I don't see these verses indicating that we will be like God in form or that He has a body.

I believe that the spirit does have a body, shape, and form. God has a face:

(Old Testament | Exodus 33:11)

11 And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle.

The spirit can move:

(Old Testament | Ecclesiastes 12:7)

7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

There is an earthly house and a spiritual house:

(New Testament | 2 Corinthians 5:1)

1 FOR we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

He is the way · Nov 23, 2020

dzheremi said:
That doesn't answer anything. Again, the key point of this question is that the Holy Spirit is a separate god in Mormonism, so how is it that God the Father can be Jesus' father in Mormonism?

How is it that the power of the Holy Spirit can be expressed via God the Father if they're not the same God, since Mormonism rejects the orthodox Christian doctrine as proclaimed through the Nicene Creed that the three Persons of the Trinity are homoousios?

God the Father sent His son:

(New Testament | John 10:36)

36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

(New Testament | John 5:36)

36 ¶ But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.

Jesus is one with the Father in unity, glory, and perfection:

(New Testament | John 17:11 - 23)

11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.
14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

The Father is greater than the Son:

(New Testament | John 14:28)

28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

LDS How did the Mormon father god who doesn't even exist impregnate

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

Well-Known Member

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

Well-Known Member

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

Well-Known Member

Member

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Dissident

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency