How did the biblical canon come about?

[tonychanyt]

Within 4 centuries, the early church arrived at a consensus:

In his Easter letter of 367, Athanasius, Bishop of Alexandria, gave a list of exactly the same books that would formally become the New Testament canon, and he used the word "canonized" (κανονιζομενα) in regard to them.​

Today, however, different denominations accept different sets of books in the general NT canon.

howstuffworks:

Most Protestant Bibles have 66 books, 39 in the Old Testament and 27 in the New Testament. The Roman Catholic Bible has 73 books including the seven known as the Apocrypha. And the Ethiopian Orthodox Church includes 81 total books in its Bible, including pseudepigrapha like 1 Enoch and Jubilees.​

Personally, I do not dismiss any book but I put my highest weight on the 66 books and less weight on other books.

Wiki:

There is no scholarly consensus as to when the Hebrew Bible canon was fixed. Some scholars argue that it was fixed by the Hasmonean dynasty (140–40 BCE), while others argue it was not fixed until the second century CE or even later.​

New Testament Apocrypha:

One aim with establishing the canon was to capture only those works which were held to have been written by the Apostles, or their close associates​

The books in Apocrypha failed that aim.

 

[trophy33]

Proposition: The canon of 66 books is an idea Jesus, His apostles and the first church would agree with.

Between 0 and 10, how much weight do you put on this proposition?

 

[tonychanyt]

Proposition: The canon of 66 books is an idea Jesus, His apostles and the first church would agree with.

Between 0 and 10, how much weight do you put on this proposition?

Good point

I don't know

Instead, I put a weight on each book including non-canonical ones as to their reliability.

 

[trophy33]

Good point

I don't know

Instead, I put a weight on each book including non-canonical ones as to their reliability.

Reliability regarding what exactly? Can you define several points you include into the reliability of a Christian writing?

 

[tonychanyt]

Reliability regarding what exactly? Can you define several points you include into the reliability of a Christian writing?

Good questions.

Unfortunately, I don't have a more precise definition of reliability other than the one found in a dictionary.

Try Is the Bible the word of God? and follow up there.

 

[trophy33]

Good questions.

Unfortunately, I don't have a more precise definition of reliability other than the one found in a dictionary.

Try Is the Bible the word of God? and follow up there.

Dictionary defines a word, but I am talking about what context you use this word in:

a) scientific reliability?
b) literal reading reliability?
c) theological reliability? And what kind of inspiration?
d) preservation reliability?
e) translation reliability?

Etc.

 

[tonychanyt]

Dictionary defines a word, but I am talking about what context you use this word in:

a) scientific reliability?

No

b) literal reading reliability?

Mostly

c) theological reliability? And what kind of inspiration?

Some. The original autographs were written by people inspired by the Spirit.

d) preservation reliability?

To a good extent, yes.

e) translation reliability?

To some extent, yes.

I prefer to analyze the reliability of a given verse. I try not to over-generalize.

 

[trophy33]

No

Mostly

Some. The original autographs were written by people inspired by the Spirit.

To a good extent, yes.

To some extent, yes.

I prefer to analyze the reliability of a given verse. I try not to over-generalize.

This all seems quite vague, though...

Is it theologically useful trying to be logically precise regarding the results, if they are based upon vaguely defined and hardly provable axioms?

 

[tonychanyt]

This all seems quite vague, though...

Is it theologically useful trying to be logically precise regarding the results, if they are based upon vaguely defined axioms?

E.g.?

 

[trophy33]

E.g.?

E.g. what?

 

[tonychanyt]

E.g. what?

Give me an example of vaguely defined axioms.

 

[trophy33]

Give me an example of vaguely defined axioms.

"Biblical books are preserved to some extent".

 

[tonychanyt]

"Biblical books are preserved to some extent".

That's not an axiom.

 

[trophy33]

That's not an axiom.

What is it, then?

 

[tonychanyt]

What is it, then?

It is a vague statement.

 

[trophy33]

It is a vague statement.

OK, let me rephrase my question, then:

Is it theologically useful trying to be logically precise regarding the results, if they are based upon vaguely defined and hardly provable basic belief statements?

 

[d taylor]

-
​

The Tanakh was established by the Jews. The new Testament writing had to line up with The Tanakh

According to the Talmud,[1] much of the contents of the Tanakh were compiled by the “Men of the Great Assembly” by 450 BCE, and have since remained unchanged. Modern scholars believe that the process of canonization of the Tanakh became finalized between 200 BCE and 200 CE.
[1] ^ Bava Basra 14b-15a, Rashi to Megillah 3a, 14a

 

[atpollard]

Proposition: The canon of 66 books is an idea Jesus, His apostles and the first church would agree with.

Between 0 and 10, how much weight do you put on this proposition?

10 & 0 ... They would agree with the concept, but there were NOT 66 books when THEY would have made that decision. (we shuffled and divided the Jewish "bible" to create the Christian OT.)

Luke 11:49-51 [NASB20] 49 "For this reason also, the wisdom of God said, 'I will send them prophets and apostles, and [some] of them they will kill, and [some] they will persecute, 50 so that the blood of all the prophets, shed since the foundation of the world, may be charged against this generation, 51 from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the house [of God;] yes, I tell you, it shall be charged against this generation.'

• Jesus here spoke of all the righteous martyrs of the Old Testament.
• Abel was clearly the first, and in the way that the Hebrew Bible was arranged, Zechariah was the last.
• 2 Chronicles is the last book of the Hebrew Bible, and Zechariah’s story is found in 2 Chronicles 24.
• Abel’s blood cried out (Genesis 4:10), and Zechariah asked that his blood be remembered (2 Chronicles 24:22).

Jesus affirmed the Genesis to Chronicles CANON of His day.

 

[tonychanyt]

OK, let me rephrase my question, then:

Is it theologically useful trying to be logically precise regarding the results, if they are based upon vaguely defined and hardly provable basic belief statements?

Not likely.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Within 4 centuries, the early church arrived at a consensus:

In his Easter letter of 367, Athanasius, Bishop of Alexandria, gave a list of exactly the same books that would formally become the New Testament canon, and he used the word "canonized" (κανονιζομενα) in regard to them.​

Today, however, different denominations accept different sets of books in the general NT canon.

howstuffworks:

Most Protestant Bibles have 66 books, 39 in the Old Testament and 27 in the New Testament. The Roman Catholic Bible has 73 books including the seven known as the Apocrypha. And the Ethiopian Orthodox Church includes 81 total books in its Bible, including pseudepigrapha like 1 Enoch and Jubilees.​

Personally, I do not dismiss any book but I put my highest weight on the 66 books and less weight on other books.

Wiki:

There is no scholarly consensus as to when the Hebrew Bible canon was fixed. Some scholars argue that it was fixed by the Hasmonean dynasty (140–40 BCE), while others argue it was not fixed until the second century CE or even later.​

New Testament Apocrypha:

One aim with establishing the canon was to capture only those works which were held to have been written by the Apostles, or their close associates​

The books in Apocrypha failed that aim.

Back in the old days, the bible was in magazine format, so people rolled it up and shot cannonballs through it .. so then we got the biblical canon.

The removal of the old testament apocrypha that occurred between the 1700s and 1800s is why there are 66 books. It meets the requirement of the 666 if one created on the 6th day reads it.