How did christs death save us from our sins?

[Lisa0315]

Wasn't intending a thread hijack, apologies.

Do you know how to set up a new thread? If not, I can walk you through it. I would love to discuss this with you.

Lisa

 

[SonOfSophroniscus]

Please don't divert conversation from the original topic, my good woman

Do you know how to set up a new thread? If not, I can walk you through it. I would love to discuss this with you.

Lisa

 

[Lisa0315]

Please don't divert conversation from the original topic, my good woman

??? Huh?

Lisa

 

[isoGOD]

Thanks for all the responses. I can see the huge ammount of time that some of them must have taken. Thank you for all the passages and your take on them. I know where to look to answer this question now. Im going to print these answers out and read those passages, and the notes on them in my study bible and see if I can work this out.

I understand now, that god is seperated from us. He is also a just god, and therefore the wrongs of our sins needed to be paid for.

The part I am having a hard time understanding, is why couldn't god just 'let it go'. He encourages us to foregive others, and if we are sometimes capable of that, and were created in his image, then why couldn't he just forgive us?

Thanks for all the help
-Dave

David, you are struggling with the same thing that i am struggling with.
i had the opportunity to give a "cross talk", where i had to explain that Jesus died on the cross to save us from our sins, and found that i couldn't figure out how it all worked.
i do think God could let it go, and don't fully understand why Jesus had to die.
i came to a conclusion that it has something to do with a show of how much God wanted to be with us, rather than just a literal atonement. (John 3:16, for those who will ask where i get that crazy idea)
I do not deny that Jesus' blood is atonement, i just don't understand exactly why it had to be that way.
i hope some of my thoughts are provoking to you david, and that only the Lord guides you in your deeper understanding of Him.

 

[mishmoo]

In the Old Testament people had to sacrifice animals to God to be forgiven for sins.. not just any animals either, they had to be perfect, absolutely no defects.
Ever wonder why we don't sacrifice animals anymore? Jesus took the place of these animal sacrifices. Only He was worthy enough to be sacrificed to the Almighty God for the forgiveness of everyones sins. He was perfect in every way.

Jesus didn't have to die if He didn't want too.
“But the world must learn that I love the Father and that I do exactly what my Father has commanded me.”
(I have to find where it is in the bible, I accidentally deleted the verse number and cant find it again!!!)

Jesus was captured, tortured and crucified because He was following Gods commands. Jesus Christ could have escaped; he could have avoided being captured... But He chose to obey God, and doing so he allowed the events to happen that would lead to his sacrifice.

 

[isoGOD]

In the Old Testament people had to sacrifice animals to God to be forgiven for sins.. not just any animals either, they had to be perfect, absolutely no defects.
Ever wonder why we don't sacrifice animals anymore? Jesus took the place of these animal sacrifices. Only He was worthy enough to be sacrificed to the Almighty God for the forgiveness of everyones sins. He was perfect in every way.

Jesus didn't have to die if He didn't want too.
“But the world must learn that I love the Father and that I do exactly what my Father has commanded me.”
(I have to find where it is in the bible, I accidentally deleted the verse number and cant find it again!!!)

Jesus was captured, tortured and crucified because He was following Gods commands. Jesus Christ could have escaped; he could have avoided being captured... But He chose to obey God, and doing so he allowed the events to happen that would lead to his sacrifice.

That is a good point. But it fails to address the question. The question should be rephrased: Why was that what God commanded? Couldn't he have just erased the sins?

 

[SpiritDriven]

You may find it hard to understand why God chose the method of Jesus being the sacrafical lamb sent to the slaugther for the remission of Sin....

God just likes doing things his way, his ways are not our ways..... his ways are higher than our ways.

We get the choice to believe or not.... but that is the limit of our free will..... he still gets his way for us in the end anyway......

You will come accross people that will tell you that the sacrafice of Jesus on the Cross..... was not enough to reconcile all things back to God...

Satan accuses day and night, never ceasing......

Peace

 

[kept]

So if god has infinite forgiveness why cant he just let it go, like the master did in that anology? What did christs death have to do with anything?

Hi DavidAdam

I think there have been some great answers and verses posted to you on this thread and I would just like to add my own struggle with this and the conclusion that I was brought to.

Sure God could have just wiped out all sin without Jesus Christ suffering on the cross - afterall - He IS GOD!

So there must be a great important reason GOD accomplished mans redemption the WAY HE chose!

Let me ask you a question?

Lets just say that you read in the paper about a horrible event in the neighboring city. In that city a man has beaten and molested a child and the governor of your state has given him a pardon.

Then you notice the for sale sign is no longer in the yard next to yours , and find out this man has purchased the house next door to you.

Also you are a Father of 3 small children.

Does it comfort you much that this man has his debt fully paid to society? Are you able to sleep at nite knowing he served his time thru a pardon, and so you can rest that nothing will happen to your children?

NO of course not - becasue forgivness of sins - wiping out debt - doesnt CHANGE the mans sin nature

it covers the sin but doesnt change the man

God could have done that - He could have just pardoned all our sins but where would that leave us?

We NEEDED someone to step INSIDE of us and heal us, deliver us, and CHANGE us

that is what Jesus sacrifice and resurrection does

God bless

kept

 

[Lisa0315]

Hi DavidAdam

I think there have been some great answers and verses posted to you on this thread and I would just like to add my own struggle with this and the conclusion that I was brought to.

Sure God could have just wiped out all sin without Jesus Christ suffering on the cross - afterall - He IS GOD!

So there must be a great important reason GOD accomplished mans redemption the WAY HE chose!

Let me ask you a question?

Lets just say that you read in the paper about a horrible event in the neighboring city. In that city a man has beaten and molested a child and the governor of your state has given him a pardon.

Then you notice the for sale sign is no longer in the yard next to yours , and find out this man has purchased the house next door to you.

Also you are a Father of 3 small children.

Does it comfort you much that this man has his debt fully paid to society? Are you able to sleep at nite knowing he served his time thru a pardon, and so you can rest that nothing will happen to your children?

NO of course not - becasue forgivness of sins - wiping out debt - doesnt CHANGE the mans sin nature

it covers the sin but doesnt change the man

God could have done that - He could have just pardoned all our sins but where would that leave us?

We NEEDED someone to step INSIDE of us and heal us, deliver us, and CHANGE us

that is what Jesus sacrifice and resurrection does

God bless

kept

Best answer I have ever heard!

Lisa

 

[TheHealer86]

That is a good point. But it fails to address the question. The question should be rephrased: Why was that what God commanded? Couldn't he have just erased the sins?

If he had just erased all sins, then he wouldn't really be God, because not only is he merciful, but he is also just. If a man is on trial for an act he committed and the judge lets the man go even though he has been proven guilty, is the judge being just?

Here is a simplified version of what alot of the scriptures presented in this thread are trying to say.

• In the beginning God created Man and Woman.
• Man and Woman sinned
• The wages(payment) of sin is death
• This explains why animal sacrifice was used to cleanse sin in the old testament. Death was the required payment for sin so a lambs death acted as the payment for the peoples sin.
• God is both a Merciful God, and also a Just God. He desired to forgive us but a debt was required to be paid. So to satisfy both parts of his nature, he paid the debt for us.
• He paid the debt through Jesus, who became the sacrificial lamb similar to those in the old testament. The difference was that Jesus was enough to satisfy the whole debt.

So, man sinned ---> sin requires death as payment ---> Jesus' death paid debt.


Another thing happened when Jesus died on the cross. When man sinned, we became slaves to sinned. We were not owned by God, but instead were owned by our own sin. When Christ died on the cross, by repaying the payment required for sin, he bought us back into ownership by God. This, I believe, is one of the reasons that it was in God's will that ultimately Jesus would die on the cross.

Finally, although I don't mean to confuse anyone who read what I wrote above, I may be wrong, but I believe that by having Jesus come to earth as a man, he was given the right to truly judge us in the end because he went through the pain, suffering, trials and temptations that we go through and he came out victorious.

 

[*Starlight*]

If he had just erased all sins, then he wouldn't really be God, because not only is he merciful, but he is also just. If a man is on trial for an act he committed and the judge lets the man go even though he has been proven guilty, is the judge being just?

Well, if the man is sorry for the harm he caused, then yes, it's just, because the man doesn't need a punishment anymore.

Anyway... such an explanation doesn't make sense to me. If you assume that the person needs to be punished, and the judge lets him go, then how exactly the judge punishing someone else for that makes the whole situation more just? I think it would make it even less just, because two wrongs don't make a right.

 

[TheHealer86]

Well, if the man is sorry for the harm he caused, then yes, it's just, because the man doesn't need a punishment anymore.

Anyway... such an explanation doesn't make sense to me. If you assume that the person needs to be punished, and the judge lets him go, then how exactly the judge punishing someone else for that makes the whole situation more just? I think it would make it even less just, because two wrongs don't make a right.

For the first part of your comment, I left out a detail that was important to the scenario. Lets say that the law that the judge was supposed to uphold stated that being chained to a rock was the consequences of committing a crime. If the man committs the crime and the judge didn't chain him to a rock, he would not be just. Even if the man was sorry. The Law didn't say that being chained to a rock was the consequences of a crime unless they are very sorry about it.

As far as the if someone else is punished, how is it not less just? Well, the law allows someone who is free from guilt to take the place of the lawbreaker. In the case of the old testament, it was a lamb which had no sin, who was eventually replaced by the true Lamb of God...Jesus. It is still just because the consequences of the law were satisfied. Justice is simply if the law is upheld.

 

[*Starlight*]

For the first part of your comment, I left out a detail that was important to the scenario. Lets say that the law that the judge was supposed to uphold stated that being chained to a rock was the consequences of committing a crime. If the man committs the crime and the judge didn't chain him to a rock, he would not be just. Even if the man was sorry. The Law didn't say that being chained to a rock was the consequences of a crime unless they are very sorry about it.

But this is an imperfection of human laws... we can't be sure if someone is really sorry for what they did. But God knows that. So using the imperfections in our human justice systems to make an analogy to God's justice doesn't work...

As far as the if someone else is punished, how is it not less just? Well, the law allows someone who is free from guilt to take the place of the lawbreaker.

Well, that's some really illogical and unjust law... What would be the purpose of that?

 

[TheHealer86]

But this is an imperfection of human laws... we can't be sure if someone is really sorry for what they did. But God knows that. So using the imperfections in our human justice systems to make an analogy to God's justice doesn't work...

Well, that's some really illogical and unjust law... What would be the purpose of that?

I'm not all that good of a communicator so I apologize for not getting my point across well enough. I can't explain how a perfect being can take place of an imperfect being, so I'm going to leave that be for the time being.

But what I was trying to illustrate with the analogy is that according to God's Law, sin requires death for a payment. If God doesn't take death as a payment, then he is unjust to his own law, and he would be a liar. Saying I'm sorry is not sufficient payment for the law.

Now why would sin need death for a payment? Because sin is going against God's will. And doing wrong against an infinite God would require something great to repay it. A simple slap on the wrist wouldn't be enough.

And even if being sorry for our sin was enough, we are not fully capable of being sorry on our own. We need Jesus before we can truly repent from our sin. While we may be sorry in part, we'd still be slaves to sin without Jesus.

 

[DavidAdam]

Thanks for all the help guys,
honestly, I still don't totally understand, but at least im looking in the right direction now. Thanks for all your help.

 

[Renton405]

To beat death one must first expereince it and then conquer it..

God just dosen't hand things over to us.. The honor that comes from sacrifice is much more powerful than something that is just handed over to us..

It also shows that God went into the human form and experienced the same sufferings we do everyday.. so we can't say "Yea , I bet if God ever became a man THEN he would know what it feels like to be us".. thus giving us no excuses..

There is no honor in just handing something over freely, there is no love in it either..If you just handed everything over to your child that he wanted would you feel like you were being a good loving parent to him?.. When something is earned/sacrificed it has much more piety and merit to it...

Take for example you had a buncha jackets and you gave one of them to a cold homeless man on the street in the rain.. yea thats good, no problem off your shoulders... But then again rewind the situation yet with one difference, you have only 1 jacket, and its on your back.. you see the homeless man and decide to give him the only jacket you have on your back, you will become cold but he will become warm.. Would you do it then?? It is in these type of actions where true love and holyness comes from(remember the parable of the lady who had only 2 cents worth and gave all of them in donation? and Jesus said her 2 pennys are worth more than any of the other money that was given?).. read that verse carefully .. I believe in here you can find the meaning to your question..

I guess it all boils down to sacrifice... Jesus said the greatest love is to lay down ones life for their friends, and God is ultimate love... I think this here shows us why Jesus's death was so important...

 

[visionary]

Did Christ's dead save us from sin?

If you look at your own life and see the transformation as sin is revealed to you and you no longer partake of it, and you can only give credit to the Word of God showing you what sin is. The Holy Spirit in your heart convicted you of its sinfulness and your repentance from that sin was revealed in your walk henceforth. But the wiping of the slate clean with God, came when you accepted that Yeshua took your place and paid the penalty of sin for you... Then yes...Christ's death saved you from sin.

There is three stages of removing sin. First stage is recognizing it for what it really is. The Word of God is the line (which only the Holy Spirit can reveal in its detail) the depth, width and breath of sin in your life. Next once sin is recognised and acknowledge come the repentence from sin (which only the Holy Spirit can give you the strength and wisdom to repent from through the Word of God). This is where God comes and dies for you, so that you may live. The overwhelming sinfulness of sin can crush the life out of any man.

This is the time to look up for your redeemer drawth nigh. He is closest to you when you see your need of a savior. The burden of sin can be laid down at the feet of Yeshua. He paid the penalty, that you may become a new creation in Him. You were bought with a price. It is an experience that can not be logically discribed, it must be experienced.

TO stand before a Holy God, sin can not bear. Sinfull man is blown away by His Holy Presence. IT is by faith, in the work of Yeshua that we can know that we are covered by His robe of righteousness.

The last stage is when you are a Holy Temple of God. Open up your heart and let Yeshua in to perform all the works performed in the desert sands illustrations in your heart. The work of salvation from sin is revealed there.

 

[MidnightCandel777]

The Bible does say that there is no forgiveness without the shedding of blood. Jesus was the last sacrifice.

 

[visionary]

The Bible does say that there is no forgiveness without the shedding of blood. Jesus was the last sacrifice.

Amen

 

[HolyGuardianAngels]

Im having a tough time figuring out how christs death saved us from our sins.

I can see how his life would serve as a good example of how to lead a sin-free life. And "WWJD" works as a pretty good guide to trying to be more like him.

But I cant see how his -Death- actually saved us.

A friend of mine said that we had a debt to be repaid, and that christ paid it for us. But why would he need to? God has infinite forgiveness. You all probably know that story about the servent that owes an un-repayable ammount of money to his master, but the master erases the debt (thats an anology to god i believe) - So if god has infinite forgiveness why cant he just let it go, like the master did in that anology? What did christs death have to do with anything?

I started reading the bible a year ago, and have been praying and going to church since then, and really turning over some of these questions in my head. And this is one major one. If i can figure this one out, then I can accept christ as my saviour and Im golden. So any help on this one would be GREATLY appreciated

thanks
-Dave

Actually, it was HIS Resurrection , which offers to us HOPE . . . (See highlighted area above . . .)