How did christs death save us from our sins?

[SonOfSophroniscus]

You interpret me wrongly my good sir. To a person who is not yet one of the Faithful, quoting religious dogma to them may seem as confrontational, or as if the religion in question was not open to debate. Ours is, so I did not want the OP to get that impression.

What are you talking about? The best way to explain and help someone understand is to put the word together rightly divided for them quoting the word to answer the question, are you a unbeliever in the bible? Stop telling people to not quote the bible, unless you are working for the other side then I understand and you have no choice but to bash the spoken word.

 

[Lisa0315]

Can we all please remember who our audience is? We will not bring anyone to Christ by debating. Remember our first and greatest command from our Lord.

Lisa

 

[TruthMiner]

Im having a tough time figuring out how christs death saved us from our sins.

I can see how his life would serve as a good example of how to lead a sin-free life. And "WWJD" works as a pretty good guide to trying to be more like him.

But I cant see how his -Death- actually saved us.

A friend of mine said that we had a debt to be repaid, and that christ paid it for us. But why would he need to? God has infinite forgiveness. You all probably know that story about the servent that owes an un-repayable ammount of money to his master, but the master erases the debt (thats an anology to god i believe) - So if god has infinite forgiveness why cant he just let it go, like the master did in that anology? What did christs death have to do with anything?

I started reading the bible a year ago, and have been praying and going to church since then, and really turning over some of these questions in my head. And this is one major one. If i can figure this one out, then I can accept christ as my saviour and Im golden. So any help on this one would be GREATLY appreciated

thanks
-Dave

Why was a blood sacrifice necessary?Theologians don't even have an answer for this one.

 

[Lisa0315]

Why was a blood sacrifice necessary?Theologians don't even have an answer for this one.

Maybe not, but a sacrifice was required by God. We accept this gratefully and know that God will provide a reason when and where He chooses.

Lisa

 

[mysterychristian]

You interpret me wrongly my good sir. To a person who is not yet one of the Faithful, quoting religious dogma to them may seem as confrontational, or as if the religion in question was not open to debate. Ours is, so I did not want the OP to get that impression.

The truth of the word is to be held forth in love and not open for debate, it is to be held forth and taken at face value, you either believe it or you do not, it is that simple.

Jesus Christ never minced words with people, he held it forth, he never said maybe I am the truth the way and the life, He said I Am the truth the way and the life....

People in our day and time have a humility problem where they think that what they think or believe is the last say, but in all reality what God says is the last say, whether we believe it or not, His thoughts are higher than our thoughts and His ways higher than our ways, our human logic that we have exalted above the Knowledge of God's word is to be casted down, by the renewing of the mind, by changing our thoughts and beliefs to line up with His....

Believing comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.

We do not use our worldly wisdom to win people but the wisdom of the word, for it is quick and powerful and sharper than any twoedged sword.... it does not need our help beyond holding it forth lovingly and accurately, it can do it's job if the receiver or seeker is meek and humble and accepts what they hear as truth. God bless,

 

[Lisa0315]

The truth of the word is to be held forth in love and not open for debate, it is to be held forth and taken at face value, you either believe it or you do not, it is that simple.

Jesus Christ never minced words with people, he held it forth, he never said maybe I am the truth the way and the life, He said I Am the truth the way and the life....

People in our day and time have a humility problem where they think that what they think or believe is the last say, but in all reality what God says is the last say, whether we believe it or not, His thoughts are higher than our thoughts and His ways higher than our ways, our human logic that we have exalted above the Knowledge of God's word is to be casted down, by the renewing of the mind, by changing our thoughts and beliefs to line up with His....

Believing comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.

We do not use our worldly wisdom to win people but the wisdom of the word, for it is quick and powerful and sharper than any twoedged sword.... it does not need our help beyond holding it forth lovingly and accurately, it can do it's job if the receiver or seeker is meek and humble and accepts what they hear as truth. God bless,

Yes, but since this is someone seeking the truth. Is this really the time to debate? We all agree that it is the blood of Christ that purchased our redemption. Why don't we lead this person to our Lord instead of debating semantics.

Lisa

 

[mysterychristian]

Yes, but since this is someone seeking the truth. Is this really the time to debate? We all agree that it is the blood of Christ that purchased our redemption. Why don't we lead this person to our Lord instead of debating semantics.

Lisa

That is just what I said the word is to be held forth not debated about, whether you are a christian or not, We are not to lower the word God exalted it above His name, people are to rise up and believe it, and meet the Word at it's standard.

 

[Lisa0315]

That is just what I said the word is to be held forth not debated about, whether you are a christian or not, We are not to lower the word God exalted it above His name, people are to rise up and believe it, and meet the Word at it's standard.

Right, and I agree. I am just saying that we shouldn't debate whether debating the word of God is right or wrong, but instead concentrate on helping this soul to Christ.

Lisa

 

[DavidAdam]

Thanks for all the responses. I can see the huge ammount of time that some of them must have taken. Thank you for all the passages and your take on them. I know where to look to answer this question now. Im going to print these answers out and read those passages, and the notes on them in my study bible and see if I can work this out.

I understand now, that god is seperated from us. He is also a just god, and therefore the wrongs of our sins needed to be paid for.

The part I am having a hard time understanding, is why couldn't god just 'let it go'. He encourages us to foregive others, and if we are sometimes capable of that, and were created in his image, then why couldn't he just forgive us?

Thanks for all the help
-Dave

 

[SonOfSophroniscus]

The truth of the word is to be held forth in love and not open for debate, it is to be held forth and taken at face value, you either believe it or you do not, it is that simple.

A dogmatic approach to preaching is more likely to scare than entice. Loving embrace instead of fire and brimstone.

Jesus Christ never minced words with people, he held it forth, he never said maybe I am the truth the way and the life, He said I Am the truth the way and the life....

We are not replicas of Jesus Christ.

People in our day and time have a humility problem where they think that what they think or believe is the last say, but in all reality what God says is the last say, whether we believe it or not, His thoughts are higher than our thoughts and His ways higher than our ways, our human logic that we have exalted above the Knowledge of God's word is to be casted down, by the renewing of the mind, by changing our thoughts and beliefs to line up with His....

If God can cast down logic then this is a fine thing indeed.

Believing comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.

Evidently not, if as you posit earlier, 'you either accept it or you don't'.

We do not use our worldly wisdom to win people but the wisdom of the word, for it is quick and powerful and sharper than any twoedged sword.... it does not need our help beyond holding it forth lovingly and accurately, it can do it's job if the receiver or seeker is meek and humble and accepts what they hear as truth. God bless,

Then a foolish Christian will be wiser than an intelligent non-believer. Do you seriously credit this?

 

[Lisa0315]

Thanks for all the responses. I can see the huge ammount of time that some of them must have taken. Thank you for all the passages and your take on them. I know where to look to answer this question now. Im going to print these answers out and read those passages, and the notes on them in my study bible and see if I can work this out.

I understand now, that god is seperated from us. He is also a just god, and therefore the wrongs of our sins needed to be paid for.

The part I am having a hard time understanding, is why couldn't god just 'let it go'. He encourages us to foregive others, and if we are sometimes capable of that, and were created in his image, then why couldn't he just forgive us?

Thanks for all the help
-Dave

Hi Dave,
I believe the reason lies in the very nature of God. For Him to be all forgiving and all loving would require that He ignore justice. The penalty of sin is death. A death is required, not just physical death, but spiritual death. Spiritual death is complete separation from God for eternity. God cannot abide sin. The penalty of sin must be paid in order for their to be a balance between justice and forgiveness.

I believe that God looked at every possible avenue in which He and mankind could be reconciled. He saw that no man would be able to overcome sin and no man would be able to keep His Holy Law perfectly. So, God provided a way. He Himself in the form of His Son Jesus came to pay the penalty of sin. In a way, THIS is God being all forgiving. God made it so easy for us to be reconciled. He took the penalty upon Himself so we would not have to. It is a free gift, but just like with any transaction, it is two sided. God imputes our sin onto Himself. All we have to do is agree to the deal.

This is love AND justice and satisfies both sides of the scale. All you have to do is your part which is repent and accept the precious gift of love and grace that God is offering.

Lisa

 

[*Starlight*]

I think I've always understood it in the way that it's his life and teachings that save people from sin... and he was killed for that. So he died for teaching people about sin and how to defeat it. And maybe also Christ's death, resurrection and ascension can be seen as a message of hope... that death is not the end, but a pathway for a person to reach God... so Christ's death could be considered to be a part of Christ's final message to humanity.

But I have no idea, these are just some of my thoughts...

 

[mysterychristian]

Thanks for all the responses. I can see the huge ammount of time that some of them must have taken. Thank you for all the passages and your take on them. I know where to look to answer this question now. Im going to print these answers out and read those passages, and the notes on them in my study bible and see if I can work this out.

I understand now, that god is seperated from us. He is also a just god, and therefore the wrongs of our sins needed to be paid for.

The part I am having a hard time understanding, is why couldn't god just 'let it go'. He encourages us to foregive others, and if we are sometimes capable of that, and were created in his image, then why couldn't he just forgive us?

Thanks for all the help
-Dave

Everything that God does is on legal grounds and because of Adams sin mankind legally belonged to the Devil, God is fair even to the devil and God had to by man back legally from the devil's clutches in order to be fair, its not that God wouldn't forgive us, its that He was bound legally to His own Word and legally He had to extend the same justness to the devil also who obtained the rights and dominion of the world from Adam who transferred his dominion to the devil, but Had the adversary and all his known, they would not have crucified the Lord Jesus Christ, when they did they sealed thier own doom so to speak. That legally made it available to by man back, by one mans (Adam's) sin (Disobedience to the word of God) all were subject to sin and death and by one mans Obedience many were made righteous and freed from sin and death.

 

[FenderElctrc]

Jesus had to die for us to open the gates of Heaven. He died for our sins. He made the ultimate sacrifice for us.

 

[Optimax]

Im having a tough time figuring out how christs death saved us from our sins.

I can see how his life would serve as a good example of how to lead a sin-free life. And "WWJD" works as a pretty good guide to trying to be more like him.

But I cant see how his -Death- actually saved us.

A friend of mine said that we had a debt to be repaid, and that christ paid it for us. But why would he need to? God has infinite forgiveness. You all probably know that story about the servent that owes an un-repayable ammount of money to his master, but the master erases the debt (thats an anology to god i believe) - So if god has infinite forgiveness why cant he just let it go, like the master did in that anology? What did christs death have to do with anything?

I started reading the bible a year ago, and have been praying and going to church since then, and really turning over some of these questions in my head. And this is one major one. If i can figure this one out, then I can accept christ as my saviour and Im golden. So any help on this one would be GREATLY appreciated

thanks
-Dave

Why Jesus must be received

First understand the issue.

God created man in His image and likeness.

Adam chose God's enemy's words over God's.

The decision by Adam to do what he was instructed by God not to do caused Adam to receive the nature of the god he chose. Sin. Which also caused man to be separated from God

God himself (Jesus) came to fix the problem which demanded His suffering and death.

When a person receives the "fix" that God provided through the death, burial and resurrection that persons "nature of sin" is removed, they are reconciled to God and that person is made a new creation in Christ.

When a person rejects the "fix" they remain with a sinful nature, remain separated from God, are not reconciled. If a person dies maintaining this rejection they then receive the same sentence that the god they chose receives. End result Lake of Fire.

 

[SonOfSophroniscus]

Are our souls in heaven before we are born, or not?

Jesus had to die for us to open the gates of Heaven. He died for our sins. He made the ultimate sacrifice for us.

 

[Lisa0315]

Are our souls in heaven before we are born, or not?

I think you have your threads confused. I am pretty sure this came up in one of the Homosexual threads, not on this thread.

Lisa

 

[SonOfSophroniscus]

Perhaps, but if people's souls do dwell in heaven before they are born, and the birth of a human being necessarily requires a soul, then I don't know how humans existed before Christ died.

I think you have your threads confused. I am pretty sure this came up in one of the Homosexual threads, not on this thread.

Lisa

 

[Lisa0315]

Perhaps, but if people's souls do dwell in heaven before they are born, and the birth of a human being necessarily requires a soul, then I don't know how humans existed before Christ died.

Well, why don't you start a new thread on that. This one is about one soul and I do not want to derail that.

Lisa

 

[SonOfSophroniscus]

Wasn't intending a thread hijack, apologies.

Well, why don't you start a new thread on that. This one is about one soul and I do not want to derail that.

Lisa