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john crawford said:What you suggest here is rote learning, dogmatic repetition and propagandistic mind-control on the same level Madison Avenue sells American enterprise or the ex-Soviet Communists used to indoctrinate people.
Lighten up, will ya' and try to think with your own brain instead of someone else's for a change.
pantsman52 said:John, you know very well what I said.
john crawford said:No individual evolution = no evolution.
How ironic!john crawford said:Lighten up, will ya' and try to think with your own brain instead of someone else's for a change.
Carico said:You apparently believe that a primate "just turned into a human being" without explaining how. Sorry, kokopop, but offspring don't "just appear." They come from the DNA of their parents. And until you understand basic reproduction, neither will you be able to uderstand deeper matters.
Well, the fact you responded to my post kinda tells me the Lord ain't hearing my pleas.john crawford said:The Lord saves all unbelievers who ask for His help, as He did me.
The connection between chromosome number and speciation is one kind of re-arrangement that is well known among plant breeders. They’ve known for a long time that by simply increasing the number of chromosomes typical of a species – a phenomenon called polyploidy – that it was possible to obtain a new variety with different characteristics...But while polyploidy is fairly common among plant species, it’s rarely found among animals...Instead, the chromosome re-arrangement most often exhibited in animal species is translocation. This is when non-homologous chromosomes break and exchange parts: one of the two chromosomes in pair A exchange a part with one of the two chromosomes in pair B. If the break in the respective chromosomes occurs near their ends and the long parts are joined together, the short segments sometimes contain so little genetic information that they may be lost. This gives the appearance of two chromosomes having been fused together. This is what happened in our own ancestry, and is the mechanism responsible for the origin of man.
I have reproduced a small part of the diagram given in the article [The editor has redrawn this with limitations in part attributable to the low quality of his copy of Gift of Fire.], showing the human second chromosome on the top, and two chimpanzee chromosomes on the bottom. It is patently obvious that the human second chromosome was created by translocation, or a fusion if you prefer, of two chimpanzee chromosomes. Or to be more precise, that the human second chromosome was created by a translocation of two chromosomes in an animal that was ancestor to both man and chimpanzee.
The sequence of events probably took place something like this. About five million years ago a translocation like that described above occurred in a pithecine male who was the controller of a harem of females. Rather than having 48 chromosomes, which was normal for his species, he had 47. When he mated with members of his harem, who possessed the usual number of chromosomes, half of his offspring would have had 48 chromosomes and half would have had 47. If some of those with 47 chromosomes mated among themselves, or were back-bred to their father, one quarter of their offspring would have had 48 chromosomes, one half would have had 47, and one quarter would have had 46. Those with 46 were the prototype of the new genus Homo. But at this stage they were not yet a new species. At most they can be thought of as a new chromosomal race., probably with great phenotypic difference from their fellows, but still not yet a new species. That had to wait for the appearance of one of the chromosome inversions discussed above. This inversion also probably occurred in a male with a harem and was transmitted in much the same way as the translocation. In this case, however, crosses between individuals with the inversion and those without produced only a few offspring, while matings between inverted chromosomes continued to be fertile, as did those without the inversion. This was the first step in breeding isolation. Suddenly, almost overnight, a new species came into existence.
john crawford said:No individual evolution = no evolution.
Carico said:I'm simply trying to find out how apes evolved into human beings. Animals are produced by the fertilized egg of their parents. So how did apes produce human beings? "over time" explains nothing. It does not explain how 2 apes can produce a "homonid". So how did humans evolve from apes? Again, apes are breeding apes today and humans are breeding humans. So how did the fertilized egg of 2 apes produce a species so different from an ape that it was given a new name? Where did the "homonid" come from? Is there anyone here who has an answer to that question?
A4C said:Of course I was speaking figuratively
No change in the "signature" of the original
No change in the "signature" of the copy
Elduran said:Well, I've finally decided that Carico and A4C are willfully ignorant enough for me to just block them and not miss out on any meaningful debate.
Congrats guys, you made my "ignoramus" list!
Heather S. said:No. All it proves is that even in this day and age, when biologists know more than ever about life and it's fascinating processes, there are still some ignorant people that are so weak-minded that they must cling desperately to a literal interpretation of their Bible.
Sad, but true. Are you going to even make an attempt at refuting my earlier points in this thread? You've done a great job of completely ignoring the information presented to you.
Heather
Carico said:Sorry but when the information constantly contradicts itself, no sane person could accept it is fact. I guess you are one of those who'll have to wait until you die to find out who created man. But I'm afraid by then, it will too late to change your mind. But it's no skin off my back. It's your soul that's at stake, not mine. You've chosen your fate.
Carico said:Sorry but when the information constantly contradicts itself, no sane person could accept it is fact. I guess you are one of those who'll have to wait until you die to find out who created man. But I'm afraid by then, it will too late to change your mind. But it's no skin off my back. It's your soul that's at stake, not mine. You've chosen your fate.
Karl - Liberal Backslider said:Right. So God places us in heaven or hell according to whether we're creationists, then?
This gets worse and worse.
Yes. And? That does not contradict evolutionary theory. ToE does not have anything to do with the origin of life. For all I care, your god could have created pink and purple unicorns to his heart's content. It doesn't matter how you believe life started. Theistic evolutionists believe that your God DID create man, but he did it through evolution. It's not a hard concept.It's one or the other. Jesus says he was with his Father in the beginning when man was first created.
No. Actually it uses the word "we" because in ancient times, using a plural pronoun to refer to a single deity was a symbol of great power. The god of the Bible (especially of the Old Testament) was meant to be portrayed as huge and all-powerful. That is why the words "we" and "us" are used.That's why Genesis uses the word; "we" when describing who created the world.
Christ taught that lying was a sin. You lie constantly about the Theory of Evolution. If you believe in Christ's words in the Bible, why do you feel compelled to lie about the belief of the people here? So I guess I'll see you in Hell with me.If you believe Christ's words in the bible, then why would you not believe Genesis?
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